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(16,471 posts)
20. Minimizing the Holocaust
Sun Jan 14, 2024, 01:58 PM
Jan 2024

Has been a long time strategy of the Palestinians and their supporters. Last year Abbas said the Palestinians have suffered 50 Holocausts. A variation is accepting the basic facts of the Holocaust but claiming that Zionists conspired with Hitler to commit genocide in order to force Jews to move to Israel. Another variation is that the Holocaust happened, but the Jews brought it on themselves because they are bad people.

Underlying all these strategies is the incorrect notion that Israel only exists because the world felt sorry for the Jews after the Holocaust, and if the world could just understand the truth, the powers that be could fix their mistake and dissolve Israel.

Another aspect is the charges of genocide, apartheid, illegal occupation all serve to delegitimize the existence of Israel and demonize her citizens by intimating that it's a rogue nation that should not exist, and is solely based on settler-colonialism, white supremacy and lies, lots and lots of lies. Much like the MAGAts do, one needs to engage in historical revisionism and conspiracy theories to make these ridiculous charges seem true. Sadly, it's been pretty effective.

Or perhaps it is because of the stunning slaughter by the IDF in Gaza. nt. Voltaire2 Jan 2024 #1
You go ahead with yourself and call it that but don't call is some BS genocide nt GuppyGal Jan 2024 #2
Or perhaps not. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #5
I think one only has to become consciously aware to apply it to what Israel under Netanyahu is doing. Autumn Jan 2024 #15
Being substantively aware helps too. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #30
Do you think Netanyahu cares about all concerned? He and his people sure don't sound like they have any concen Autumn Jan 2024 #45
No I don't. However, what you or I thing of Netanyahu doesn't change the definition of genocide, Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #76
You are attempting to change the definition of genocide. You won't even accept the IJC's definition of genocide. Autumn Jan 2024 #83
What? Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #92
For The Record, This Is The Text Of The Convention The Magistrate Jan 2024 #122
If you think that the term genocide is incorrect will you accept mass murder of civilians? Chainfire Jan 2024 #69
No I will not. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #78
Which is different then every other recent war how exactly? EX500rider Jan 2024 #21
Well one big difference is that they are JOOOOOOOOOZ!!1!! tritsofme Jan 2024 #22
Yes! agingdem Jan 2024 #58
Sorry, but Jilly_in_VA Jan 2024 #62
Hamas started this war..and it is war.. agingdem Jan 2024 #65
So killing preemies Jilly_in_VA Jan 2024 #66
well, maybe if Hamas didn't use the babies as human shields agingdem Jan 2024 #68
You skipped over the illegal settlements and the pain and suffering caused questionseverything Jan 2024 #77
Just another excuse to kill Jews... agingdem Jan 2024 #79
Stealing land, arresting people with no evidence or charges is ok with you? questionseverything Jan 2024 #82
Does Israel hide their fighters among civilians? Captain Zero Jan 2024 #104
No but does that justify excessive deaths of non-combatants? Redleg Jan 2024 #121
Non-existent oppression? Redleg Jan 2024 #120
Well it's greater than every column except the oddly labelled 'early 1990s'. Voltaire2 Jan 2024 #41
Worse how exactly EX500rider Jan 2024 #59
We don't know, but we can assume the civilian Voltaire2 Jan 2024 #90
Why can we assume that EX500rider Jan 2024 #101
This graph is incomplete. ShazzieB Jan 2024 #86
Do you really think the civilian casualties were low in Korea and Vietnam? EX500rider Jan 2024 #112
No, I don't think that at all. ShazzieB Jan 2024 #119
I assume they were mostly making recent comparisions EX500rider Jan 2024 #144
Thanks for data on Korea. ShazzieB Jan 2024 #145
+1 Chautauquas Jan 2024 #52
The denial of Israeli atrocities is truly something. Sky Jewels Jan 2024 #80
The issue is not the "denial of Israeli atrocities." ShazzieB Jan 2024 #84
Yes GuppyGal Jan 2024 #3
The masks were thrown on the ground a long time ago At least now it is pellucidly clear where folks stand. No surprises tritsofme Jan 2024 #4
I disagree. I think there is so much talk about Israel and "genocide" because Netyanhu and his government is Autumn Jan 2024 #6
A prime example of what I am talking about. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #8
And you think you aren't playing with words to create your own definition of genocide? Autumn Jan 2024 #11
++++++++!! 2naSalit Jan 2024 #26
His IJC's definition of "genocide" seems to be the same definition of genocide I learned in grade school. . Autumn Jan 2024 #28
I appreciate... 2naSalit Jan 2024 #38
+1. You've described my own thoughts very well. Thank you. yonder Jan 2024 #139
That's not the definition of genocide in the Convention. lapucelle Jan 2024 #95
Sure. Here's the link. "Any of". Words have meaning and I cut and pasted from your link. "c" Autumn Jan 2024 #97
Nope. It's important to read all the words. lapucelle Jan 2024 #99
Nope. Genocide has a mental element and a physical element. lapucelle Jan 2024 #106
The thing is that the OP is claiming that talk of it being genocide is actually Holocaust denial. muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #125
Sorry, but the Israeli government is not "coming close to genocide". lapucelle Jan 2024 #132
When "evidence of genocidal intent in the form of statements by leaders" has to be "placed in context", it's close muriel_volestrangler Jan 2024 #135
It's not close at all. lapucelle Jan 2024 #137
I have to say, I don't think that definition is applicable either. LauraInLA Jan 2024 #39
Do be sure and notify the IJC's that their definition of "genocide" is not applicable. . Autumn Jan 2024 #48
You forgot to quote the following: Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #72
I forgot nothing I posted the IJC's definition of genocide straight from the link along with Autumn Jan 2024 #75
That's not the definition of genocide in the Convention. lapucelle Jan 2024 #85
Thanks for posting this. It's very helpful. ShazzieB Jan 2024 #88
Yes it is. Genocide means "any of the following acts" committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part Autumn Jan 2024 #91
Nope. Go read the Convention. lapucelle Jan 2024 #94
from your link not just "c" applies Stargleamer Jan 2024 #98
From my link: There are TWO elements that must be established. One is "intent". lapucelle Jan 2024 #100
Kinda reminds me of some of the discussions that happened in the US after certain mass shootings. 3_Limes Jan 2024 #12
Or is it - 3_Limes Jan 2024 #13
I don't have my own definition for genocide. I refer to far more authoritative sources. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #93
"His" definition is the definition found in the actual Convention. lapucelle Jan 2024 #103
As someone who agrees that "genocide" doesn't (yet) apply, I still say, viva la Jan 2024 #54
Uh, no. 3_Limes Jan 2024 #7
Whatever that means. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #10
One of the things that terrifies me ismnotwasm Jan 2024 #9
That terrifies me as well The Revolution Jan 2024 #117
""Six million dead Jews? No big deal," 3_Limes Jan 2024 #14
Denying? No, Holocaust is undeniable. It is the next best thing: normalizing it. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #73
No, I don't think you figured it out at all Martin Eden Jan 2024 #16
Hamas and Islamic Jihad are likely the most popular political movements in the disputed territories. tritsofme Jan 2024 #18
I see little chance of peace Martin Eden Jan 2024 #37
And yet they seem totally not horrified by this? EX500rider Jan 2024 #25
One has garnered much more publicity Martin Eden Jan 2024 #46
The Problem, Sir, Is Why That Is The Magistrate Jan 2024 #146
Not denying it, normalizing it. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #74
That makes no sense Martin Eden Jan 2024 #96
Apparently, those who profess to abhore the plight of civilians in Gaza have no clue what constitutes genocide. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #105
"casually throw around so casually" Martin Eden Jan 2024 #108
They look like clueless entitled performers to me Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #118
They don't deny holocaust. They can't. The next best thing is to normalize it, which is what all the selective and Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #107
I do think that is part of it edhopper Jan 2024 #17
I doubt it Jilly_in_VA Jan 2024 #63
Kick mcar Jan 2024 #19
Minimizing the Holocaust Mosby Jan 2024 #20
Your post me be meaningful if the audience here were Palistinian. 3_Limes Jan 2024 #23
"Blood thirst"... Mosby Jan 2024 #27
English is my third language. 3_Limes Jan 2024 #34
I find it useful to read profiles. N/T lapucelle Jan 2024 #102
Example of the lies. Mosby Jan 2024 #36
Interesting, thanks for the fact check... I read the Kristoff piece this morning and it seemed off to me LymphocyteLover Jan 2024 #49
Aren't these supposed to be in the Israel/Palestine forum? PSPS Jan 2024 #24
There is a GD exception going right now. Mosby Jan 2024 #29
Probably not. SarahD Jan 2024 #31
I 100% disagree. Lunabell Jan 2024 #32
If "genocidal intent" derived from two or three extreme right wing ministers Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #109
I find it hard to look past the far more likely reason- Israel is on trial for genocide RAB910 Jan 2024 #33
The court is not holding a trial. The court is hearing accusations to determine whether or not they have merit. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #110
Jury's still out on who's genociding whom Warpy Jan 2024 #35
Here's what I wonder intrepidity Jan 2024 #40
so you've proved something using entirely contrived alternate histories. Voltaire2 Jan 2024 #42
I generally agree. If Hamas surrendered and gave up the hostages, Israel would not be LymphocyteLover Jan 2024 #44
Agreed. yardwork Jan 2024 #43
And yet still the South African case was laughably weak. tritsofme Jan 2024 #50
To some extent but if would help if so many Israeli officials didn't make genocide-like statements about Palestinians LymphocyteLover Jan 2024 #47
Apparently 800 Holocaust scholars disagree. But hey, what would they know? Nanjeanne Jan 2024 #51
They are all antisemites... Dave Bowman Jan 2024 #61
Apparently, the 800 scholars do not disagree with what I posted. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #111
Well spotted. Plus a big dose of Trump-style projection. Hekate Jan 2024 #53
Missed the sarcasm, didn't ya? n/t Jilly_in_VA Jan 2024 #133
I don't think that at all. patphil Jan 2024 #55
Well, there's the unfortunate fact... GiqueCee Jan 2024 #56
Stuff like this? Mosby Jan 2024 #60
Whatever Netanyahu's surrogates stated does not amount to government policies, let alone genocidal policies. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #113
No, it is not policy... GiqueCee Jan 2024 #141
You don't know much about Israeli politics, do you? Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #142
Could be Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jan 2024 #57
If you can't deny the facts... TheRealNorth Jan 2024 #64
I see you have nothing factual to contribute. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #114
I understand what you are saying and glad you said it. Behind the Aegis Jan 2024 #67
Excellent analysis. One also wonders why these same groups say very little about the massive deaths in Yemen, Syria, JohnSJ Jan 2024 #81
Not exactly denialism but a similar malignant effort to TheKentuckian Jan 2024 #70
So if I were to watch a documentary about SocialDemocrat61 Jan 2024 #71
No, but if you call the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan genocidal, Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #115
What about Darfur SocialDemocrat61 Jan 2024 #123
You are allowed to discuss anything you wish. I, for one, will not stop you. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #128
I just want to know what the rules are SocialDemocrat61 Jan 2024 #129
The rules are well known Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #130
Cool SocialDemocrat61 Jan 2024 #131
You got it. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #136
Thank god for video recording SocialDemocrat61 Jan 2024 #138
If I understand, you are implying with certainty that the available video recordings and news interviews Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #140
I'm implying nothing SocialDemocrat61 Jan 2024 #143
K&R betsuni Jan 2024 #87
Whoa, you have really gone off the rails with this! mentalsolstice Jan 2024 #89
So you saw many Holocaust survivors in Florida. Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #116
It's less denial than Holocaust mitigation to weaken Israel's existence Sympthsical Jan 2024 #124
Well Said, Sir The Magistrate Jan 2024 #126
Thank you Beastly Boy Jan 2024 #127
Bigots always salty as fuck when they get called out. nt LexVegas Jan 2024 #134
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