General Discussion

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)

108. The "fuck" thing is a red herring

Thu Jan 19, 2012, 02:11 PM

Jan 2012

I should have answered you straight on instead of going off on a tangent.

Whether or not I agree with banning a word, in practice the ban on "fuck" is considered content neutral. (I could make an argument that using a banned word is content in itself, but that's a distraction.)

A student couldn't have a shirt that said Fuck the Police or Fuck Obama or Fuck Romney or Fuck Homework.

In this case, a banner saying Fuck the USA and a banner saying Fuck the Confederacy would have the same standing. Both banned.

It is unlikely that there is any sanction for having an American flag on your car.

If your point is that students do not have full first amendment rights, that's granted. Of course they don't. But that does not mean that schools are allowed to discriminate based on content.

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Missouri student loses driving rights for flying Confederate flag [View all] proud2BlibKansan Jan 2012 OP

The way of life that he refers to included slavery...which is very offensive to Americans.... rfranklin Jan 2012 #1

Would you apply the same standard to commemorating slaveholding native American cultures? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #95

Do you think you should be able to fly the Nazi flag in Germany? CreekDog Jan 2012 #99

Yes, I do. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #100

We know, we know CreekDog Jan 2012 #102

The only thing holocaust denial does is propogate hate... YellowRubberDuckie Jan 2012 #113

Slavery is offensive to anybody who believes in the concept of freedom for all... rfranklin Jan 2012 #104

Yes, it is about heritage bluestateguy Jan 2012 #2

+1 proud2BlibKansan Jan 2012 #14

So we should go in and plow up all of the Confederate oneshooter Jan 2012 #83

Absolutely not! That would be an outrage. bluestateguy Jan 2012 #90

How is the Confederate flag NOT treasonous? Zalatix Jan 2012 #3

Just curious Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #6

Sadly, they don't. Zalatix Jan 2012 #7

I'm pretty sick of this broad-brush painting of the South. Fawke Em Jan 2012 #114

Yeah, that Alan Grayson is such a racist right-winger... Hugabear Jan 2012 #116

I said the South is a breeding ground for Right Wingers, not that all Southerners are RWers Zalatix Jan 2012 #128

The United States is a breeding ground for right-wingers Hugabear Jan 2012 #129

Yup. Just look at Hayden Lake, Idaho, Art_from_Ark Jan 2012 #143

That was my first reaction too Yupster Jan 2012 #80

They amend the U.S. Constitution to allow it, then do it. eShirl Jan 2012 #82

Article 1 Section 10 Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #145

Because we are not currently at war with cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #47

But that's not the standard that was suggested in the post to which you replied. Vattel Jan 2012 #79

The definition of treason is in the constitution cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #112

good point Vattel Jan 2012 #119

And if we had a legal succession from the British Empire, A Simple Game Jan 2012 #141

I think our succession was legal, but that is arguable. Vattel Jan 2012 #158

Britain didn't think so, hence the Revolutionary war. n/t A Simple Game Jan 2012 #159

I doubt it mattered even nowadays if it was legal or not MichaelMcGuire Jan 2012 #160

It's a statement. "We lost, and still not over it after 150 years." eShirl Jan 2012 #84

"History" yeah that's always the explanation racists Raine Jan 2012 #4

The History of Treason, is how I usually answer that claim. arbusto_baboso Jan 2012 #105

I don't give a damn whether the ignorant asshole considers the flag racist or not. white_wolf Jan 2012 #5

The Swastika (like all Nazi iconography) is specifically banned under German law RZM Jan 2012 #9

Now they have a bunch of Swastika-like symbols that mean the same thing. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #27

I'm from Tennessee and still live here and I don't Fawke Em Jan 2012 #115

I know that not everyone does. white_wolf Jan 2012 #117

IMO it's as offensive as a swastika ProgressiveEconomist Jan 2012 #8

The Confederate Flag was removed from "over the State Capital" years ago. nt Skip Intro Jan 2012 #17

Wikipedia disagrees with you ProgressiveEconomist Jan 2012 #20

It no longer flies over the State House dome. Skip Intro Jan 2012 #22

It's been banned in cemeteries in Missouri. xmas74 Jan 2012 #66

Good. Serves that racist, traitor-loving fucker right. Odin2005 Jan 2012 #10

I suspect he will get his driving privileges reinstated Major Nikon Jan 2012 #11

Courts have ruled schools have the right to limit speech that is considered disruptive proud2BlibKansan Jan 2012 #15

If he's allowed to fly this, but that kid in Alaska can't fly 'Bong Hits for Jesus' TransitJohn Jan 2012 #50

Would it really be disruptive at a nearly white high school? pstokely Jan 2012 #58

Yes it would tkmorris Jan 2012 #62

Perhaps not, but it sure seems that way Major Nikon Jan 2012 #101

This is a test for DU and we are failing miserably. joeglow3 Jan 2012 #12

You are correct. Many DUer's support freedom of speech and expression only when Skip Intro Jan 2012 #16

+1 onenote Jan 2012 #40

You then believe that freedom of speech applies LanternWaste Jan 2012 #87

Agreed. DavidDvorkin Jan 2012 #18

Count me among the "failures". EFerrari Jan 2012 #21

Ditto n/t malaise Jan 2012 #132

Agree with you 100% - lynne Jan 2012 #23

+1 mitchtv Jan 2012 #28

Agreed. n/t X_Digger Jan 2012 #30

Schools don't allow students to have the word "fuck" written on their stuff at school, ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #31

So it's a "fuck flag" then? n/t cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #34

I am comparing the Confiderate flag to the word "fuck." ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #35

Yeah, I kinda figured that. Just stirring the pot. I'm quite literal in my interpretation of cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #38

Does that include death threats against politicians? nt ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #39

I do not think threats against ANYONE fall into the category of protected speech, no. cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #41

I was just wondering how far you took ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #88

Not at school it's not proud2BlibKansan Jan 2012 #44

It's not absolute anywhere, but cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #46

Outside the school doors outside of school hours? joeglow3 Jan 2012 #72

On school property proud2BlibKansan Jan 2012 #78

It is a symbol of violent rebellion against the United States jberryhill Jan 2012 #152

Yup. Freedom of Speech is okay when it dovetails with MY worldview... cherokeeprogressive Jan 2012 #33

^ This Dead_Parrot Jan 2012 #45

A hearty +1 TransitJohn Jan 2012 #51

Except for one thing: xmas74 Jan 2012 #67

Personally, I appreciate it when racists self-identify ... makes it easier to shun them. JoePhilly Jan 2012 #69

You are 100% correct DiverDave Jan 2012 #75

I'm all for ignorant racist fucks letting everyone know who they really are. eShirl Jan 2012 #85

I agree. I prefer to know outright. joeglow3 Jan 2012 #96

I have to agree with you. As offensive as it is, it's a free speech issue. Arkansas Granny Jan 2012 #86

Well said. Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2012 #91

I agree Yupster Jan 2012 #92

best response in this thread.... mike_c Jan 2012 #120

I'm surprised you take this position. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2012 #139

no, but while I'm also not "ok" with him making derogatory remarks more generally... mike_c Jan 2012 #153

My "OK" inquiry was about the "without sanction" part of my question. Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2012 #155

that's a tougher question than it seems.... mike_c Jan 2012 #157

DU is not a very liberal site anymore. A Simple Game Jan 2012 #142

I had distant cousins in the Wehrmacht BiggJawn Jan 2012 #13

Pretty sure you can fly that swastika - lynne Jan 2012 #24

That's my point. BiggJawn Jan 2012 #64

How about the "Bonny Blue" flag. Or the Japanese flag oneshooter Jan 2012 #81

Yes you should be able to fly a swastika Yupster Jan 2012 #93

Good! baldguy Jan 2012 #19

I disagree with the school cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #25

Agreed. Popular speech needs no protection- it's popular. X_Digger Jan 2012 #32

How do you feel about schools that don't allow the word "fuck" on school grounds? ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #36

Well... cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #37

How about a shirt that says "fuck the police" on it. ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #89

The "fuck" thing is a red herring cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #108

"In this case, a banner saying Fuck the..." ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #121

Your argument has much practical merit cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #124

But a more current Supreme Court, a few years ago, TransitJohn Jan 2012 #52

Yes. That's why I added cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #54

I think parking at school is considered a privilege pstokely Jan 2012 #60

the privilege thing is a red herring cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #110

I don't agree with the school's decision (nt) bigwillq Jan 2012 #26

Tough call for me. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #29

Well that's just ridiculous XemaSab Jan 2012 #42

Arguments for the school's position on this: cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #43

He lost parking at school rights. LeftyMom Jan 2012 #48

A narrow point: The school doesn't own the parking lot cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #49

The school administers the parking lot. If he got in a fight in the parking lot, they'd punish him. LeftyMom Jan 2012 #53

Schools have a right to limit student's free expression obamanut2012 Jan 2012 #146

Odd MFrohike Jan 2012 #55

The headline is terrible cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #56

That makes sense MFrohike Jan 2012 #57

It is a first amendment issue cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #59

Nope MFrohike Jan 2012 #61

It makes sense, but it doesn't really hold up to analysis onenote Jan 2012 #70

Thank you. cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #111

I despise your analysis MFrohike Jan 2012 #123

The First Amendment intends to cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #125

Heh MFrohike Jan 2012 #126

I think the school would prevail cthulu2016 Jan 2012 #127

Paralleling me MFrohike Jan 2012 #150

The great thing about the First Amendment is that you are free to despise my analysis onenote Jan 2012 #133

I can agree...for adults MFrohike Jan 2012 #151

I think this is a free speech issue. He should be allowed cliffordu Jan 2012 #63

Shouldn't it be an act of treason? xmas74 Jan 2012 #65

Not under the Constitution of the United States onenote Jan 2012 #68

I live in the same state where this case happened xmas74 Jan 2012 #135

Isn't this the same town where the homeschool family got the book banned? proud2BlibKansan Jan 2012 #71

Yes The Genealogist Jan 2012 #109

Yes he's a homeschooler proud2BlibKansan Jan 2012 #118

The Vonnegut books? xmas74 Jan 2012 #134

Personally I think calling Confederates traitors is unfair Yupster Jan 2012 #97

That's history for you, Uncle Joe Jan 2012 #106

The Supreme Court ruled secession was unconstitutional in Texas v. White Hugabear Jan 2012 #131

That was after the fact Yupster Jan 2012 #137

I'm not calling Jefferson Davis a traitor, xmas74 Jan 2012 #136

Just a note of interest Yupster Jan 2012 #138

That's interesting. xmas74 Jan 2012 #140

I'm calling Davis a traitor, and Lee obamanut2012 Jan 2012 #147

Geeze - that's pretty tough Yupster Jan 2012 #149

For fun ... ask a person who flies the Confederate Flag if its ok to BURN the US Flag ... JoePhilly Jan 2012 #73

Confederates: YOU LOST! GET OVER IT! elehhhhna Jan 2012 #74

I wonder if the article should say "parking privilages", not "driving privilapges". JoePhilly Jan 2012 #76

That was the first thing that hit me reading the headline treestar Jan 2012 #77

Another lost opportunity for a teaching moment. The Midway Rebel Jan 2012 #94

The day Abraham Lincoln was inaugurated Yupster Jan 2012 #98

Why can't we all agree to use pirate flags? L0oniX Jan 2012 #103

Ah, heritage and a way of life gratuitous Jan 2012 #107

Well, if the police did that in Georgia, RebelOne Jan 2012 #122

And that noose hanging from his rear view mirror? MineralMan Jan 2012 #130

I don't have a problem with people waving their Confederate flags Art_from_Ark Jan 2012 #144

What I find most offensive is that apparently the school ... moriah Jan 2012 #148

if you fly the confederate flag your a racist moron rdking647 Jan 2012 #154

In Missouri that action could cause one hell of a fight. I suspect the roots that lead back to the jwirr Jan 2012 #156