General Discussion

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)

76. If you took away the subsidies that fossil fuels receive

Sun Nov 25, 2012, 11:25 PM

Nov 2012

and gave them to renewables instead solar would be cheaper. Even as it is it's getting cheaper every day. And that's before you add in the hidden environmental and health costs of fossil fuels. If we didn't allow power companies to externalize the actual costs of their businesses the cost equation would look far different.

All it takes is political will and the willingness to push for new technology instead of relying on 100-yr-old methods that are destroying the planet. This is what we get when we allow corporations and the rich to direct how our govt. spends money. How much innovation has been stifled because the fossil fuel corporations wanted it that way?

If you want some information on a different approach, check out Germany (bunch heads-in-the-clouds dreamers over there, you betcha).

Boy am I tired of the Can'ts! it used to be in this country that we COULD, and DID!

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WARNING [View all] Whovian Nov 2012 OP

Not at an economically realistic price. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #1

Ha ha ha ha. Hilarious post, thanks!!! My sides hurt from laughing so much... Ha ha. Scuba Nov 2012 #2

Solar generates .04% of the energy in the United States. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #10

It can be, though concentrating solar tends to be more efficient than PV. AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #45

It isn't widespread (here) because there are cheaper energy sources. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #54

If we subsidized solar to the extent which we subsidize oil and gas... renie408 Nov 2012 #55

Exactly... Jeff In Milwaukee Nov 2012 #70

Your under the influence of oil my friend.... Pauldg47 Nov 2012 #74

It has been powering my house for 11 years. roody Nov 2012 #78

it seems to work well for the Germans BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #88

And don't forget how crappy and cloudy the weather is over there Victor_c3 Nov 2012 #98

virtually all of the lower 49 states are farther south than Germany. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #112

I totally disagree. My friends here with a farm in Australia Swagman Nov 2012 #97

Yes, and at one time oil generated .04% of the energy in the US. chalky Nov 2012 #106

Solar is actually quite cheap to get going, especially when mass produced. LeftyLucy22 Nov 2012 #126

You need to learn that just saying something doesn't make it so. Post your sources, so we patrice Nov 2012 #5

Here you go. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #12

Why are assumptions based, apparently, only on "large scale"? Nothing else would make patrice Nov 2012 #21

The reality is that it's not cost effective enough for it to be a solution at this point. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #32

Then you better... azbillyboy Nov 2012 #44

It being possible does not make it cost effective. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #48

What costs are you counting? renie408 Nov 2012 #57

Producing solar panels is damaging to the environment as well. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #63

Solar cells are made from crystalline silicon Loudestlib Nov 2012 #64

The newest solar panels use indium, tellurium and gallium. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #66

CIGS? Who is mass producing those? Loudestlib Nov 2012 #71

Here is an article that discusses rare earth mining and environmental issues GitRDun Nov 2012 #72

Ok...top this... renie408 Nov 2012 #77

Sweet Jesus! azbillyboy Nov 2012 #124

Yeah, it's called 'Subsidies'. AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #46

That's what is often conveniently ignored klook Nov 2012 #58

It's measured in dollars... blackspade Nov 2012 #108

Small scale is more efficient. roody Nov 2012 #79

Your original claim was that solar power is to inefficient and inexpensive. drm604 Nov 2012 #96

So you consider a conspiracy to suppress solar energy the null hypothesis... Silent3 Nov 2012 #14

No. Actually, I just wanted to see the sources on those claims about economics etc. patrice Nov 2012 #24

It suggests no such thing Silent3 Nov 2012 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author AAO Nov 2012 #37

What assertion did I make? Silent3 Nov 2012 #41

Sorry - I was terribly confused. Pardon me, please! I will delete the offending post. AAO Nov 2012 #47

I need you to provide exactly what you're talking about & to quit trying to make the case that all patrice Nov 2012 #42

OK, what claim do you think I'm making? Silent3 Nov 2012 #49

Definately some voodoo going on tonight on this thread. AAO Nov 2012 #51

No. If one is shooting down an idea, there needs to be some factual support. AAO Nov 2012 #50

If you took away the subsidies that fossil fuels receive truebluegreen Nov 2012 #76

Thank you! Bookmarking your response. patrice Nov 2012 #82

Excellent, excellent post nt laundry_queen Nov 2012 #117

What you forget is that the more solar panels are produced, Curmudgeoness Nov 2012 #8

I'm all for solar. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #18

It may or may not be exaggerated that all the world's energy Curmudgeoness Nov 2012 #28

Enough energy from our star... 99Forever Nov 2012 #104

Bingo ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #20

Economies of scale alfredo Nov 2012 #61

Try looking for reality, not propeganda quakerboy Nov 2012 #22

So environmental damage is ok, just as long as YOU or YOUR kids don't have to deal with it? Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #31

huhhhh? Loudestlib Nov 2012 #65

I challenge you to do the research quakerboy Nov 2012 #123

The truth is a most elusive thing in the alternative energy sphere ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #34

You funny. n/t Raine1967 Nov 2012 #35

Solar accounts for just .04% of U.S. power. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #40

In 1850, how much did electricity contribute to US power? renie408 Nov 2012 #60

If you don't realize why that's a bad argument, there's little point arguing with you. DireStrike Nov 2012 #73

So you are a conspiracy theorist? Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #75

Huh? renie408 Nov 2012 #80

I'm saying that it isn't viable right now, duh. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #83

No, that is actually NOT what you have been saying throughout this entire thread. renie408 Nov 2012 #84

What I've said all along is that as of right now solar is not viable for large scale utilization. Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #85

Your initial statement was that renie408 Nov 2012 #89

I still hold to my statement that at this time solar is not efficient enough Pacafishmate Nov 2012 #90

Have you ever watched "Who Killed the Electric Car?" LiberalLovinLug Nov 2012 #109

Big Oil Killed the Electric Car SariesNightly Nov 2012 #122

It depends on how you look at it, if in several years you have paid off your initial investment Quixote1818 Nov 2012 #120

There are many reasons besides a conspiracy that it might not have market share. DireStrike Nov 2012 #99

What a lame response. grahampuba Nov 2012 #100

"Too expensive and inefficient"..... Vanje Nov 2012 #43

Dude, there is no future in those things... renie408 Nov 2012 #81

Was not the same true as we shifted from horses to cars? JoePhilly Nov 2012 #53

I agree that it is still too expensive johnd83 Nov 2012 #56

Good job responding Pacafishmate. You stand your ground well. Festivito Nov 2012 #86

Oh really? I just had panels installed on my home... Javaman Nov 2012 #101

I support changing to solar, however, your post isnt a fair argument. rhett o rick Nov 2012 #118

So rebates are bad to get a new tech going? Javaman Nov 2012 #121

I didnt say anything of the sort. Shame on you for using that logical fallacy. rhett o rick Nov 2012 #125

Yes shame shame on me. Javaman Nov 2012 #127

So, exactly how much is breathable air worth to you? nt Zorra Nov 2012 #107

Wrong on four counts Ernest Partridge Nov 2012 #113

As I see it, he wasnt arguing against any of those items. rhett o rick Nov 2012 #119

The plan is.... dems_rightnow Nov 2012 #3

I read "can" as "could potentially..." ZombieHorde Nov 2012 #6

Snagged, thank you very much! patrice Nov 2012 #4

The moon can create enough free solar energy for the whole solar system Speck Tater Nov 2012 #7

Transmit it by microwaves Callmecrazy Nov 2012 #26

The day that starts happening I will build a Faraday cage around my house Speck Tater Nov 2012 #62

Callmecrazy, U Crazy! reACTIONary Nov 2012 #92

Can they make them affordably enough to put on every roof-top? lonestarnot Nov 2012 #9

Yes, it was already done. Patents were bought and you never heard from them again. n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #13

If true, please post the patent numbers. There are no secret patents unless they are classified by ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #16

While one can make the argument that every little bit helps, the higher latitudes ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #27

tell that to germany. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #87

Germany does not have any place like the American southwest ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #105

EXACTLY- just imagine how much power we could generate all along the southern latitudes. BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #111

The key issue is infrastructure ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #114

I was wrong. They do have it and products are entering the consumer market now. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #115

K&R Nevada and Arizona can easily handle North America. Ditto. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #11

Enough wind potential in US to supply 15 times more electricity than we use ErikJ Nov 2012 #15

To the naysayers: If we put as much cash into solar and wind as we do a war Whovian Nov 2012 #17

And here endeth the thread. Archaic Nov 2012 #59

Plus 1000 Whovian Nov 2012 #67

An easy soundbite, but unfortunately not even close to true ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #19

Okay, tell me why transmission lines can't be re-routed? Whovian Nov 2012 #25

It more than just rerouted...there is a dramatic needed for increased lines ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #30

Don't we need to upgrade the grid as it is? Loudestlib Nov 2012 #68

Depends on the concept we end up with ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #103

wind turbines in Willard NM womanofthehills Nov 2012 #38

gotta steal that picture! rurallib Nov 2012 #23

Note - The Dark Side of 'The Cloud'. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 2012 #29

How do we save it and ship it over to the US? An electric grid in outer space? AAO Nov 2012 #36

So very true. AverageJoe90 Nov 2012 #39

They're going to power Africa eventually. The PTB be damned. joshcryer Nov 2012 #52

What they are speaking of jonthebru Nov 2012 #69

What a load of crap jmowreader Nov 2012 #91

Two videos regarding SOLAR that I recommend everyone watch, below Tx4obama Nov 2012 #93

K&R defacto7 Nov 2012 #94

Solar is only part of the solution, we will still need large power generators for industry pediatricmedic Nov 2012 #95

Not today... ProgressiveProfessor Nov 2012 #102

i'm skeptical Enrique Nov 2012 #110

Whow! Who discovered it was very sunny in North Africa? RedCloud Nov 2012 #116

K&R woo me with science Nov 2012 #128