General Discussion

Nevernose

(13,081 posts)

87. I'm a high school English teacher

Tue Nov 27, 2012, 02:13 AM

Nov 2012

My main objection is that it is simply too difficult as a test item. Gimme a week and I could have the kids working miracles with it, but as a dry read test item it's atrocious.

Another objection is that under the Common Core, I don't get to teach much literature anymore. These days it has to be 70% nonfiction.

My final objection is that it's simply not relevant to the lives of teenagers these days. We don't have much time with them; we should pick and choose which classics we teach. There's plenty of good poetry, written in the modern age and with a modern vernacular, that average high school kids can relate to far better. The canon is huge, and this translation of Ovid sucks balls. Of course, it's also public domain, so there's no royalty fees for the testing corporation.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

143 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Here's what your 10th-graders will be tested on under Common Core: Ovid [View all] HiPointDem Nov 2012 OP

What's wrong with Ovid? Perfectly reasonable component of a solid education in the humanities dmallind Nov 2012 #1

Perfectly reasonable. enlightenment Nov 2012 #5

99% of teens would find it boring and/or painful to read. pnwmom Nov 2012 #9

Yes, because having to think about one passage will destroy them for life. Posteritatis Nov 2012 #15

No, it won't. But Ovid is overrated, as a teaching device anyway. pnwmom Nov 2012 #20

The same could be said of Shakespeare intaglio Nov 2012 #94

How many plays of Shakespeare include 50 rapes? pnwmom Nov 2012 #95

Neither does "Merchant" by those lights intaglio Nov 2012 #109

that just makes me sad. It's a beautiful play cali Nov 2012 #115

Quite a few adults would, too Fla_Democrat Nov 2012 #18

Dare I say "most"? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #32

If that's their reaction, reading is already ruined. aquart Nov 2012 #62

Student: "Why are we reading Ovid's handbook on rape?" pnwmom Nov 2012 #65

not everyone has the same tastes in literature... BlueMan Votes Nov 2012 #79

since common core mandates that only 30% of texts taught in HS english can be literature, HiPointDem Nov 2012 #140

I think 99% is perhaps a bit overbaked. enlightenment Nov 2012 #82

May be so. But I still don't understand why high school students pnwmom Nov 2012 #84

Because it's poetry? Because it's old? Retrograde Nov 2012 #103

There are countless old poems out there. They don't need to assign The Metamorphoses pnwmom Nov 2012 #108

Can they do Titus Andronicus? (n/t) Retrograde Nov 2012 #114

What do you think? Is it one of the best? pnwmom Nov 2012 #116

Oh please. This is embarrassing. Might as well dispense with Classics entirely under your regime. anneboleyn Nov 2012 #137

What a horrible, shallow rationale for dumbing down curricula. anneboleyn Nov 2012 #136

shallow is your uniformed post. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #142

Exactly. Ovid, Shakespeare, etc. WTH is the problem? It is "poetry" and therefore too "hard?" anneboleyn Nov 2012 #135

Good lord! Are_grits_groceries Nov 2012 #2

What? I loved reading Ovid in high school. MineralMan Nov 2012 #4

they don't read it. ovid isn't on the 10th-grade reading list. they just get HiPointDem Nov 2012 #48

It was on my 10th grade reading list. MineralMan Nov 2012 #60

it's not on the common core reading list, which most of the states will soon HiPointDem Nov 2012 #74

Oh I can see a number of things this tests that are appropriate... HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #19

Should students be expected to study a text pnwmom Nov 2012 #89

IMO, although that clearly activates your sensibilities, it's a red herring HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #96

Teaching to the test means that many students are likely to be taught pnwmom Nov 2012 #99

I don't think this is a teaching to the test issue...because the nature of the assessement HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #111

can you also imagine what students would make of 'modest proposal' if they met it cold HiPointDem Nov 2012 #129

Pretending society has the same hundreds/thousands of years ago AlexSatan Nov 2012 #97

With all the beautiful and/or difficult reading passages that could be assigned from other works, pnwmom Nov 2012 #100

Now that, AlexSatan Nov 2012 #113

Is it a required test? For all 10th graders? I don't recall having to take a test in 10th grade. Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #119

Common Core Tests. Every year. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #127

That article says the tests are to go into effect in 2014-2015? Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #130

no, i meant they will be given every year, to all students. at least once, possibly twice, HiPointDem Nov 2012 #133

This whole testing mania is about profit -- for the testing companies pnwmom Nov 2012 #138

+1 HiPointDem Nov 2012 #139

I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.... mike_c Nov 2012 #3

I knew I'd get the "I love Ovid, especially in 100-year-old translation" from the HiPointDem Nov 2012 #6

Appreciate it might be asking to much... Riftaxe Nov 2012 #41

Do you know a lot of typical 10th graders? And by that I mean, pnwmom Nov 2012 #141

Enjoyed the reading too. PufPuf23 Nov 2012 #45

I don't think all education should be about the "global economy" Union Scribe Nov 2012 #76

but according to the folks pushing this, it's all about educating kids for the global economy. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #93

Your answer choices are A), B), C) or TL/DR) Bucky Nov 2012 #7

This isn't the way to encourage a generation of readers. pnwmom Nov 2012 #8

That's one of the more inane objections I've heard to, well, anything here. (nt) Posteritatis Nov 2012 #14

How many English classes have you taught or observed? n/t pnwmom Nov 2012 #16

What bearing does that have on deciding poetry's for the 1%? (nt) Posteritatis Nov 2012 #17

If you knew high school students you would know there would only be a few pnwmom Nov 2012 #21

Nope, not even them. knitter4democracy Nov 2012 #24

I meant 1% in ability and interest, not in financial background. pnwmom Nov 2012 #91

It's a passage I'd expect on the AP anyway. knitter4democracy Nov 2012 #117

Holy phuking wow! You could not be more wrong. Please describe your personal patrice Nov 2012 #29

Why should I? Anyone who works with teens knows that most of them pnwmom Nov 2012 #38

What should they read in school then? Union Scribe Nov 2012 #78

Frankenstein is pretty good. roody Nov 2012 #80

How about Shakespeare? (But not The Taming of the Shrew) pnwmom Nov 2012 #92

I had 2 alternative high school students almost come to blows over that book. knitter4democracy Nov 2012 #118

Is that the purpose of the test? surrealAmerican Nov 2012 #30

If passages like this are known to be on a test, they WILL be central to the curriculum. pnwmom Nov 2012 #35

So people who enjoy reading, MineralMan Nov 2012 #61

You can love to read, as I did, and dislike Ovid pnwmom Nov 2012 #66

But I bet reading him helped you improve your skills at critique. wickerwoman Nov 2012 #81

There were countless other difficult texts I could have read instead in order pnwmom Nov 2012 #83

What an appalling comment. Nightmarish. aquart Nov 2012 #63

+1 with many zeros on the end. nt Union Scribe Nov 2012 #77

The 1% don't read; they have people to do that for them. wickerwoman Nov 2012 #90

It's OK so long as they explain that humans can't actually fly this way. FarCenter Nov 2012 #10

Why should children not learn classical literature? Skidmore Nov 2012 #11

For 4 decades I tried to teach undergrads biology... HereSince1628 Nov 2012 #12

four decades...? mike_c Nov 2012 #55

Yes, how dare those poor snowflakes have to read something complex for a change. Posteritatis Nov 2012 #13

Ovid's Metamorphoses contains over 50 references to rapes. pnwmom Nov 2012 #23

Literatures reflect their times Skidmore Nov 2012 #36

Yet you upthread recommended books that contain many more *deaths* than that dmallind Nov 2012 #101

Ovid is simply montanto Nov 2012 #22

And there's the crux of the matter: what approach? knitter4democracy Nov 2012 #25

If they want kids to read Ovid, it should be "The Art of Love". Cleita Nov 2012 #26

"... the kind of reading students will have to ENDURE ..." Do you recognize your own bias? nt patrice Nov 2012 #27

If kids aren't used to reading archaic language they're going to have a hard time with that Fumesucker Nov 2012 #28

Well, jeez. isn't that the very type of circumstance for which we should to teach research skills Skidmore Nov 2012 #39

This is a test, not a research project.. Fumesucker Nov 2012 #42

I know what "rustic," "pipe," "prom," and "straws" all mean. pnwmom Nov 2012 #44

Put them together and what've you got? Fumesucker Nov 2012 #46

Pretty much. n/t pnwmom Nov 2012 #47

ovid isn't on the 10th grade reading list. this is just a passage that they HiPointDem Nov 2012 #50

ovid isn't in common core's 10th grade reading, i.e. it won't be taught. they HiPointDem Nov 2012 #75

What's to research? Retrograde Nov 2012 #106

my post was to counter the idea that students will actually be studying ovid. but the HiPointDem Nov 2012 #107

Student: "Why are we reading Ovid's handbook on rape?" pnwmom Nov 2012 #31

Challenge is the essence of cognitive development. It should be appropriate, but inappropriate patrice Nov 2012 #33

The Metamorphoses isn't just challenging. It's sexist and misogynistic and includes pnwmom Nov 2012 #34

That's okay with me as long as it isn't about avoiding reading challenges. Discussion is patrice Nov 2012 #37

But in a test situation there's no discussion involved. pnwmom Nov 2012 #40

Your point about the testing environment is taken. I was thinking about curriculum in general... patrice Nov 2012 #43

ovid isn't part of the 10th-grade curriculum. it's just a test question. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #51

How will the test takers know about the 50 rapes that are not in this sample? dmallind Nov 2012 #102

The fact that it is couched in poetic language doesn't make it less of a rape. "She fought him." pnwmom Nov 2012 #110

So...nongraphic rape descriptions are, to you, worse than graphic torture and killing descriptions? dmallind Nov 2012 #112

What an insipid critique by your source. I would have been tested on Ovid in the original Latin, msanthrope Nov 2012 #49

Ugh, not only is it a wretched story to begin with Warpy Nov 2012 #52

I don't see anything wrong with this - downandoutnow Nov 2012 #53

Welcome to DU! hrmjustin Nov 2012 #64

It's how testing is done in many other countries... WilmywoodNCparalegal Nov 2012 #54

ovid is not on the common core 10th grade reading list. it's just a test HiPointDem Nov 2012 #56

here's a different perspective.... mike_c Nov 2012 #57

"haven't had any serious prior exposure to the passage in the test." HiPointDem Nov 2012 #58

Uh huh and the current gripe is that schools don't teach job skills or that schools MichiganVote Nov 2012 #59

We could just give them this machine assembly manual: bhikkhu Nov 2012 #86

Mirabile dictu! A flamewar on Ovid. rug Nov 2012 #67

<snort> Fumesucker Nov 2012 #68

Ave, amice rug Nov 2012 #69

I tip my hat to you....I think Virgil declined. nt msanthrope Nov 2012 #104

Long before Schoolhouse Rock, there was this. rug Nov 2012 #132

So you are upset about children learning to read. Cool. cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #70

Your comments are generally much smarter than that Fumesucker Nov 2012 #72

Basically. joshcryer Nov 2012 #105

30 years, high school English, Tech-Prep 11, Honors 10, C-P 12. THIS EXCERPT SUCKS. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #71

Wait until they get to his love manual! Odin2005 Nov 2012 #73

On any assessment there will be questions only the top % of students will master aikoaiko Nov 2012 #85

I'm a high school English teacher Nevernose Nov 2012 #87

What's wrong with Homer? Isn't that more popular with kids? nt Honeycombe8 Nov 2012 #120

i like the newer translation in the link for teaching NuttyFluffers Nov 2012 #88

I think it is great. We underestimate the kids and what are we saying if something I learned in high Pisces Nov 2012 #98

Good. I want students to be challenged RZM Nov 2012 #121

so it's standardized tests that challenge students? i thought it was curriculum HiPointDem Nov 2012 #122

Ideally they are challenged on a regular basis RZM Nov 2012 #124

There is a reason. Classical greek/romance literature written in archaic english isn't part HiPointDem Nov 2012 #125

It's not any worse then the stuff I had to read in 9th or 10th grade. Jennicut Nov 2012 #123

excellent Deep13 Nov 2012 #126

yea, testing them on something they didn't study will help a lot. and more testing will HiPointDem Nov 2012 #128

I meant excellent that Sophmores were being exposed to Ovid. Deep13 Nov 2012 #131

the only place they're being exposed is on the test itself. not a good space for a 1st HiPointDem Nov 2012 #134

That's bad. Deep13 Nov 2012 #143