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Voltaire2

(13,172 posts) Wed Apr 24, 2024, 01:16 PM Apr 24

We need an exodus from Zionism [View all]

I’ve been thinking about Moses, and his rage when he came down from the mount to find the Israelites worshipping a golden calf.
The ecofeminist in me was always uneasy about this story: what kind of God is jealous of animals? What kind of God wants to hoard all the sacredness of the Earth for himself?
...
Our Judaism cannot be contained by an ethnostate, for our Judaism is internationalist by nature.

Our Judaism cannot be protected by the rampaging military of that state, for all that military does is sow sorrow and reap hatred – including against us as Jews.

Our Judaism is not threatened by people raising their voices in solidarity with Palestine across lines of race, ethnicity, physical ability, gender identity and generations.

Our Judaism is one of those voices and knows that in that chorus lies both our safety and our collective liberation.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/24/zionism-seder-protest-new-york-gaza-israel
Naomi Klein
The Guardian

I've been pondering how to address the elephant in the room at our Seder celebration this week. Naomi has provided some answers.

114 replies

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We need an exodus from Zionism [View all] Voltaire2 Apr 24 OP

Here's the operative line that makes article bullshit NoRethugFriends Apr 24 #1

Exactly. You can't "out nice" people who are determined to torture and kill you. n/t Coventina Apr 24 #2

Com'on...there's good people on both sides. Amirite? CincyDem Apr 24 #26

VERY FINE PEOPLE. ON BOTH SIDES. Maru Kitteh Apr 24 #51

There are choices between 'genocidal maniac' and 'just be nice'. Voltaire2 Apr 24 #4

Please note my opinion in the post of what Netanyahu is doing NoRethugFriends Apr 24 #6

"cannot be protected by the rampaging military of that state" Voltaire2 Apr 24 #14

Yes there are NoRethugFriends Apr 24 #24

Stopping the war won't reduce antisemitism. But, continuing it makes it worse. Earth-shine Apr 24 #63

Everyone really should read _People Love Dead Jews_. LauraInLA Apr 24 #65

It is the people of Gaza who are dying by the tens of thousands. Voltaire2 Apr 25 #113

I thought it was the Seder line. BannonsLiver Apr 24 #8

This makes me ponder Mr.Bill Apr 24 #47

is Zionism the same as Judaism ? serious question Tetrachloride Apr 24 #3

Absolutely not, despite efforts to conflate the two. Voltaire2 Apr 24 #5

Question NoRethugFriends Apr 24 #10

Everyone also should read the Michael Chabon novel _The Yiddish Policemen's Union_. LauraInLA Apr 24 #66

ty. Tetrachloride Apr 24 #11

Zionists are people who support a Jewish state ripcord Apr 24 #9

Thank-you. The term has been intentionally misused by those who JohnSJ Apr 24 #57

No. elleng Apr 24 #45

No, think of it as a sort of Jewish Nationalism IronLionZion Apr 24 #73

Forwarding this Hekate Apr 24 #7

Zionist means being for a Jewish homeland. Elessar Zappa Apr 24 #12

They have a homeland claudette Apr 24 #32

Except there are certain groups who not only refuse to accept that, but JohnSJ Apr 24 #60

For years, Netanyahu supported Hamas financially and politically. Yes, things are not so simple. Earth-shine Apr 24 #68

Oh please, blame Netanyahu for Oct 7th? Bullshit. I blame Hamas JohnSJ Apr 24 #74

I did not say I blame Bibi for Oct 7. I said "it ain't so simple" using your own words. Earth-shine Apr 24 #78

I do, but also blame the Israel people for his continued power. True Blue American Apr 24 #86

My limited understanding is that most Israeli's support Bibi's actions but not him, per se. Earth-shine Apr 24 #91

I did not make a "personal" argument against you, nor was it a straw man argument JohnSJ Apr 24 #99

You wrote - "Please, blame Netanyahu for Oct 7th? Bullshit." That's a strawman. Earth-shine Apr 24 #101

Thanks for clarifying the part you viewed as "strawman". JohnSJ Apr 24 #104

Thank you for correcting the bumper-sticker thinking. AnrothElf Apr 24 #70

Oh please claudette Apr 24 #77

You are spared. Thanks for asking AnrothElf Apr 24 #100

Why did Palestinians reject the UN offer of a homeland wnylib Apr 24 #75

You will never get an answer to that question. n/t Coventina Apr 24 #103

Why not set up another homeland, or 3 or 4? Multiple zions erronis Apr 24 #41

They are already divided into communities in Israel, and there is friction among factions. Earth-shine Apr 24 #72

Stage 5 Sympthsical Apr 24 #13

Sure of course Naomi Klein is a raging anti-semite Voltaire2 Apr 24 #16

If the 20th Century wasn't enough Sympthsical Apr 24 #19

and Klein's constant anti-Hillary crap helped sway some JohnSJ Apr 24 #64

Yeah, Klein's Anti Hillary screeds are part of why we got Fasccism in the WH and Cha Apr 24 #92

+++ JohnSJ Apr 24 #97

Klein or Wolf? maxsolomon Apr 24 #107

Klein often called Democrats elite neoliberals (as if Democratic policies are the same as Republican, betsuni Apr 24 #112

Nailed it. BannonsLiver Apr 24 #18

Anti-Zionism is antisemitism. nt LexVegas Apr 24 #15

So then what does that say about people who think "we need an exit from Zionism"? BannonsLiver Apr 24 #22

Naivete at best NoRethugFriends Apr 24 #25

Not really claudette Apr 24 #33

Your family believes there should be no Israel? sarisataka Apr 24 #36

No claudette Apr 24 #38

Then, according to the dictionary definition, sarisataka Apr 24 #39

So Nuttyahoo claudette Apr 24 #42

I would agree with that assessment of him sarisataka Apr 24 #48

By definition most citizens of Israel are Zionist. Netanyahu of course is a Zionist, but so is his opposition. LeftInTX Apr 24 #85

What definition of Zionism does your family have? Mossfern Apr 24 #95

Words are symbols, not the thing. multigraincracker Apr 24 #102

Gods may not be real but flags are, here's a picture of one: EX500rider Apr 24 #108

Defined. Symbol, something that multigraincracker Apr 24 #110

Well if you want roads & airports & social security etc you need government EX500rider Apr 25 #114

Israel is stealing Gaza? That's a new one. marybourg Apr 24 #105

Yes, it's not a monolithic view BuddhaGirl Apr 24 #52

The "oppose" it because they think Israel can only exist if G-D creates it. Behind the Aegis Apr 24 #80

I'd say there's often a huge overlap, but I can't agree they are the same Silent3 Apr 24 #67

I am puzzled, by exodus from Zionism sarisataka Apr 24 #17

Or, she is encouraging the viewpoint that all Jews everywhere are responsible for Coventina Apr 24 #20

She is either extremely naive sarisataka Apr 24 #23

she is neither naive nor unaware. ProfessorPlum Apr 24 #58

If she believes all Israel has to do is stop and antisemitism will go away sarisataka Apr 24 #62

The poster you're responding to didn't say anything about "antisemitism will go away"... Silent3 Apr 24 #71

That I can agree with sarisataka Apr 24 #76

what a strawman ProfessorPlum Apr 24 #88

You may note I began this subthread posing it as a question sarisataka Apr 24 #89

There is no "our Judaism"... agingdem Apr 24 #21

Rec.. TY! Cha Apr 24 #93

Distilling 'Peace in Our Time' down to its fundamentals. Torchlight Apr 24 #27

This is the ultimate goal of all the pro-Palestinian activism: marybourg Apr 24 #28

Not to claudette Apr 24 #34

And do what? Lay down to be rolled over? marybourg Apr 24 #94

No, it isn't claudette Apr 24 #44

Oh, under the guise of. The horrific attacks on Israel were not enough to marybourg Apr 24 #49

Post removed Post removed Apr 24 #50

The ultimate goal of all the pro-Palestinian activism: Big Blue Marble Apr 24 #96

But in their case, they want it on the land on which Israel is situated. marybourg Apr 24 #109

Which land are you referring to? Big Blue Marble Apr 24 #111

As an ecofeminist, Naomi should be aware that pretty damned niyad Apr 24 #29

Post deleted LW1977 Apr 24 #30

I can assure you, and Klein, and other like minded that none of you would be spared by the hooligans question everything Apr 24 #31

That's only because claudette Apr 24 #37

Those "pro-innocents" protestors have made common cause with anti-semite protestors maxsolomon Apr 24 #53

I really don't know claudette Apr 24 #79

Of course they have the right to peaceful assembly. maxsolomon Apr 24 #84

It unfortunately is coming from both. LeftInTX Apr 24 #98

I'm reacting to the videos and photos I've seen from the on-campus and campus-adjacent protests. maxsolomon Apr 24 #106

THIS malaise Apr 24 #35

Ah Yes... Happy Hoosier Apr 24 #40

Who are claudette Apr 24 #46

The point of the essay... Happy Hoosier Apr 24 #90

This makes me want to vomit, fast as a comet. PCIntern Apr 24 #43

Fine. Zionism is a false idol. What now, Naomi "Not Naomi Wolf" Klein? maxsolomon Apr 24 #54

We need an exodus from religion. Sibelius Fan Apr 24 #55

Except being Jewish is not even a matter of religion. LauraInLA Apr 24 #69

I'm a little confused. What does the author think of events after the mount. Raven123 Apr 24 #56

The International Jew Add. 1 - by Naomi Klein Mosby Apr 24 #59

4 claims about "our Judaism", all of them wrong. jg10003 Apr 24 #61

A simple google search reveals that Naomi Klein has been the Queen of self-hating Jews since she was 12 years old. madaboutharry Apr 24 #81

Agree! True Blue American Apr 24 #82

She doesn't make her point very clearly IronLionZion Apr 24 #83

I think there is an issue moniss Apr 24 #87