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HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)

32. By your logic, it's necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 03:07 AM

Nov 2012

Removing the cap, making 100% of wage income subject to SS taxes means that the top 10% of earners, the one group who doesn't *need* Social Security, will be paying more than half its costs.

"The top 10% pays 70% of Social Security taxes!!!! Unfair!!!!"

That's what gave us welfare "reform", and it's what will give us Social Security "reform" as well.

The one thing that is keeping them from "reforming" SS is the program's universality and the public's perception that they are paying for their benefits, and paying roughly in line with the benefits they receive.

That's what makes the general public willing to fight, that's what gives their support a 'moral' component, and that's what keeps some proportion of the top 10% on board.

Remove that & you kill SS. It's that simple.

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Let me explain one way you are about to get screwed by Obama's $250K tax break? [View all] kentuck Nov 2012 OP

So people 'get screwed by OBAMA's $250K tax break???' elleng Nov 2012 #1

It was that way before any changes, even those made by GWB. SharonAnn Nov 2012 #30

Right. Thanks. elleng Nov 2012 #35

If you make six figures, I find it difficult to work up the necessary empathy... Tarheel_Dem Nov 2012 #2

Perhaps you should re-read the OP jberryhill Nov 2012 #7

This slice of the population, folks dependent primarily on earned income making about HiPointDem Nov 2012 #3

My income is over the cap, and I support removing it jberryhill Nov 2012 #5

It's not about *you*. I don't care what *you* support. It's about what *most* people HiPointDem Nov 2012 #8

And I don't care what *you* think "most" people believe jberryhill Nov 2012 #13

I'm fairly sure a lot of people in the upper brackets know about the cap. Or their accountants HiPointDem Nov 2012 #16

And they are a minority of voters jberryhill Nov 2012 #20

gee, do we get to vote on what to do about SS? i didn't know that. yeah, our representatives HiPointDem Nov 2012 #62

My income is over the cap, and I support removal, too. nt msanthrope Nov 2012 #73

It's a question of fairness and progressivity. kentuck Nov 2012 #6

as i said, people in this bracket pay combined federal taxes at a combined higher rate HiPointDem Nov 2012 #10

What are you talking about ??? kentuck Nov 2012 #12

I think it's pretty obvious how higher taxes without higher benefits would act to decrease HiPointDem Nov 2012 #14

Russ Douthat is an asshat! kentuck Nov 2012 #17

he may be an asshat, but he's saying what everyone knows & won't say. decreasing HiPointDem Nov 2012 #64

You are spectacularly wrong about what "most people think" jberryhill Nov 2012 #18

I'm clearly not referring to the general population, but to the high-earning workers whose HiPointDem Nov 2012 #19

Oh, okay, so a majority of Republicans should dictate policy? jberryhill Nov 2012 #22

Damn! My head is spinning! kentuck Nov 2012 #23

I know, right? jberryhill Nov 2012 #25

That is what kills me about this place lately... kentuck Nov 2012 #28

By your logic, it's necessary to destroy the village in order to save it. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #32

They already think taxes are unfair - all taxes jberryhill Nov 2012 #33

"they" all do? but you are one of those high income workers who doesn't, you said? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #36

Lol... jberryhill Nov 2012 #38

yes, i'm a closet limbaugh supporter, my posting history certainly demonstrates that. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #40

You obviously didn't look at the poll I posted the link to jberryhill Nov 2012 #42

i'm not talking about the general public -- "dearie". HiPointDem Nov 2012 #43

Yes I know. Fuck what they think jberryhill Nov 2012 #44

Nobody is talking about higher taxes without higher benefits. bornskeptic Nov 2012 #60

So you're saying not only will higher-earners pay more, they'll also get higher benefits? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #63

Because HPD believes it, that's why jberryhill Nov 2012 #15

Social Security has never been progressive so far as its taxation goes. Yet it's survived HiPointDem Nov 2012 #58

You are right quakerboy Nov 2012 #56

You act as though "we" hold all the cards. I wonder why "we" haven't succeeded in HiPointDem Nov 2012 #59

Again, you are absolutely right quakerboy Nov 2012 #66

Yes, the powerful already agitate against it. They'll have more material to work with when HiPointDem Nov 2012 #67

They dont need more material quakerboy Nov 2012 #71

"the rich" get most of their income from capital and don't pay much in the way of SS taxes. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #72

So you get rid of the SS cap Angry Dragon Nov 2012 #4

Income taxes have nothing to do with the cap on Social Security. Tennessee Gal Nov 2012 #9

A tax is a tax is a tax... kentuck Nov 2012 #11

When is a tax not a tax? Tennessee Gal Nov 2012 #21

I am saying it is unfair. kentuck Nov 2012 #26

There is fairness built into how SS benefits are taxed when one is retired. WCGreen Nov 2012 #29

In regards to those retired folks.. kentuck Nov 2012 #31

that is absolutely correct... WCGreen Nov 2012 #34

You have some guarantee you'll live that long? jberryhill Nov 2012 #47

It's retirement fund.... WCGreen Nov 2012 #55

If I die at 55 I don't get shit jberryhill Nov 2012 #57

and you still don't get shit if the cap is eliminated. So what's the relevance? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #65

Actually *I* get a higher tax rate jberryhill Nov 2012 #70

Actually, it is not... WCGreen Nov 2012 #27

I support removing the cap as well.. Oasis_ Nov 2012 #39

you can support it all you like, you won't get it. but they'll take your "tradeoff" & screw HiPointDem Nov 2012 #41

Ok Oasis_ Nov 2012 #45

because such a big percentage of the population makes so little. the average income HiPointDem Nov 2012 #48

Again Oasis_ Nov 2012 #50

I didn't discount anything. I just said you can support the idea all you like but it won't HiPointDem Nov 2012 #53

Why should they? I'll tell you why... jberryhill Nov 2012 #49

??? Oasis_ Nov 2012 #51

It's been that way since I have been doing tax returns... WCGreen Nov 2012 #24

tax brackets might enlighten you. GeorgeGist Nov 2012 #37

The SS cap is entirely different RudynJack Nov 2012 #46

This isn't "Obama's" tax break. This has been the case for decades, if not forever. pnwmom Nov 2012 #52

it rises pretty much every year. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #54

Thanks for the info. nt pnwmom Nov 2012 #61

I still can't work out why you're trying to blame Obama for a decades-old situation muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #68

Oh, please union_maid Nov 2012 #69

The self-employment penalty tax is also unfair. lightcameron Nov 2012 #74