General Discussion

cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)

63. This argument isn't getting any cleverer with repetition

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:07 PM

Nov 2012

This same argument can be made about defensive driving. Shouldn't we be teaching other people to drive properly rather than teaching me how to anticipate the fact that they run lights, can't stay in their lane, don't know what the turn signal is for, etc.?

The point of defensive driving is not to shift responsibility to victims. It is an acknowledgment of the fact that the dangerous driver exists, despite our efforts to reduce such driving. And there is no injustice or slight in teaching reasonable persons how to best deal with that fact.

The fact my car door has a lock is not an implicit endorsement of auto theft. It is a recognition of the fact that aberrations exist despite our efforts to eliminate them.

It is an excellent thing to educate men to not commit sexual violence but it will not eliminate the problem because most rapists have something wrong with them beyond having never been told to not rape.

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"How to Avoid getting Raped" [View all] michigandem58 Nov 2012 OP

huh? datasuspect Nov 2012 #1

Dress appropriately...n/t monmouth3 Nov 2012 #2

wasn't alluding to that datasuspect Nov 2012 #3

Maybe you forgot the sarcasm thingy? lapislzi Nov 2012 #13

Wear nice clothes and you run the risk of being mugged. Bandit Nov 2012 #64

I do dress appropriately mythology Nov 2012 #88

Problem is ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #4

One solution to the problem may be to make it his "problem" whathehell Nov 2012 #78

There are any number of reasons ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #82

Sometimes it does occur whathehell Nov 2012 #94

He's male obvi n/t theinquisitivechad Nov 2012 #101

Because ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #104

Umm....Not so sure about your conclusion whathehell Dec 2012 #142

I am GLAD to see that a MAN here understands the reality that many women are not BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2012 #125

Men seriously need an education. Luminous Animal Nov 2012 #5

one landing page from a University of Illinois at Chicago server constitutes education? datasuspect Nov 2012 #7

here are the sources. check them out. cause i KNOW you are serious about educating yourself. seabeyond Nov 2012 #9

give me your academic login credentials datasuspect Nov 2012 #12

Try Google Scholar BainsBane Nov 2012 #92

+1 progressoid Nov 2012 #115

In layman's terms (see what I did there?)... lapislzi Nov 2012 #22

my point is datasuspect Nov 2012 #25

Right. But identifying the behaviors and attitudes lapislzi Nov 2012 #36

men don't generally "jump out of bushes" datasuspect Nov 2012 #41

My point exactly. lapislzi Nov 2012 #50

Precisely. Now couple this with the number of people convicted of rape that don't believe AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #90

What would your point be about other violent crimes? whathehell Nov 2012 #75

That whooshing sound was another point flying right over your head. Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #11

how so? datasuspect Nov 2012 #15

That other whooshing sound was his hand giving the point an assist. morningfog Nov 2012 #16

Post removed Post removed Nov 2012 #19

Good point. n/t Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #60

Way to miss the point. morningfog Nov 2012 #14

how do they teach criminals to not commit crimes? datasuspect Nov 2012 #17

You are making several erroneous presumptions. morningfog Nov 2012 #20

ok datasuspect Nov 2012 #23

Then who were you referring to? morningfog Nov 2012 #24

put it like this datasuspect Nov 2012 #27

No, we aren't talking about generalities. morningfog Nov 2012 #31

Wow, you were saying the victims needed to toughen up!!! bettyellen Nov 2012 #93

people in general need a backbone datasuspect Nov 2012 #40

Well, tough guy, what is the relevance in this context? morningfog Nov 2012 #43

A lot of people have explained it to you rather well... LanternWaste Nov 2012 #28

no it's because you're doing a piss poor job of being a smart ass datasuspect Nov 2012 #32

I'm not clever enough to be smart ass.. LanternWaste Nov 2012 #35

May I have your definition of rape? lapislzi Nov 2012 #56

"psycho babble self esteem nonsense"???? Matariki Nov 2012 #26

psycho babble self esteem nonsense datasuspect Nov 2012 #29

No. You really are missing the point. lapislzi Nov 2012 #30

wow, for you to point fingers at "babble" after spewing this circular reasoning crap, LOL bettyellen Nov 2012 #46

He won't be responding, thankfully. He's blocked from this thread now. morningfog Nov 2012 #48

You sound a little rough but I get your point. lalalu Nov 2012 #71

The points 2naSalit Nov 2012 #79

this post is beyond excellent. thank you. seabeyond Nov 2012 #84

Thank you 2naSalit Nov 2012 #128

Have you ever been to these classes? I have back when I was on campus. lalalu Nov 2012 #44

Oh, I see the value in the class. But, the point of the sign in the OP is morningfog Nov 2012 #45

I agree we should teach both. lalalu Nov 2012 #53

Those that rape are not like other criminals IMO. rhett o rick Nov 2012 #34

One more point. lapislzi Nov 2012 #42

She is the owner of her sexuality, not a man. seabeyond Nov 2012 #52

Well said. nm rhett o rick Nov 2012 #65

you said it VERY well. thank you. and right on. literally.... right. on. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #51

How disgusting. DURHAM D Nov 2012 #49

And the point sails wide right Capt. Obvious Nov 2012 #58

Yes, the rapists we still have with us(to repurpose something somebody said about something else) Ken Burch Nov 2012 #68

So will these seminars be mandatory or voluntary? TheMadMonk Nov 2012 #107

I'd go with mandatory and POSITIVE....a part of growing into true manhood. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #108

speak it, brother. you are so right on. i do not get why men sell themselves short. seabeyond Nov 2012 #111

Fear...fear of change. And a refusal to believe Ken Burch Nov 2012 #124

yup. and let that go and a man will truly be free and so thankful. just does not believe it yet. seabeyond Nov 2012 #126

Unicorns and Butterflies? Want to buy a bridge? TheMadMonk Nov 2012 #117

The fact that every man has it in himself to be and not be the things I mentioned Ken Burch Nov 2012 #121

Compare the amount of time invested in telling AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #73

Men should not have sex unless they have written permission, properly notarized FarCenter Nov 2012 #77

Mocking rape and consent is truly breathtaking. myrna minx Nov 2012 #83

really? i simply teach my boys enthusiasm is required, and teach my niece to own her sexuality. seabeyond Nov 2012 #86

Meanwhile on planet earth... AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #89

Sarcasm? Yes, sort of. Except consider the function of a public, legal marriage ceremony. FarCenter Nov 2012 #97

Those vows do not, however, mean one partner MUST have sex whenever the other demands it. Ken Burch Nov 2012 #103

there's no such thing as a legal marriage ceremony TorchTheWitch Nov 2012 #105

The legal ceremony is the one where the signing of the document is done FarCenter Nov 2012 #109

falsely charge? nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #112

You know, "legitimate rape." Le Taz Hot Nov 2012 #133

I have no idea what you are on about, but I'm sure whatever it is AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #119

Not in my wedding it wasn't. AtheistCrusader Nov 2012 #118

Wow. Le Taz Hot Nov 2012 #132

I think we should teach both, but I completely Fawke Em Nov 2012 #6

Then there are DAs who refuse to prosecute sexual assault cases!!! Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2012 #8

and police forces that will not file a report, or downgrade, or take a great charge. nt seabeyond Nov 2012 #10

Or plea bargain it down Le Taz Hot Nov 2012 #134

I think they should be teaching both. 99Forever Nov 2012 #18

i do teach both, with nieces and there part to be aware and my boys and what society teaches them seabeyond Nov 2012 #21

The college I went to taught both. lalalu Nov 2012 #33

Point. Set. Match. meegbear Nov 2012 #37

I never know what to say about this issue. Springslips Nov 2012 #38

You're talking about a COMMON SENSE class! lapislzi Nov 2012 #47

You make a good point. Springslips Nov 2012 #61

Thank you. lapislzi Nov 2012 #66

Sadly, many young women going off to college apparently don't get this advice from parents SoCalDem Nov 2012 #81

my niece in college says there are groups of older students that go to the parties seabeyond Nov 2012 #87

Yes. Exactly. Where the hell are ethics in our education system? Taverner Nov 2012 #39

Because it's not on the test. nt laundry_queen Nov 2012 #95

exactly nt Taverner Nov 2012 #96

Both should be taught. Nye Bevan Nov 2012 #54

This is one of those incendiary things where more info is needed. Bicoastal Nov 2012 #55

Clearing up ethical ambiguities a college freshman may never have been confronted with LanternWaste Nov 2012 #59

There are a significant number of boys from other cultures on campus that have varying expectations FarCenter Nov 2012 #74

Until they do, maybe carrying these in your sword belt might help. Cleita Nov 2012 #57

I posted this pic a day before you... WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #62

You really do learn a lot about where people's true belief systems lie. myrna minx Nov 2012 #67

This WilliamPitt Nov 2012 #69

This argument isn't getting any cleverer with repetition cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #63

You raise an excellent point, except: lapislzi Nov 2012 #91

Entitled to sex? white_wolf Nov 2012 #116

you know what. good point. seabeyond Nov 2012 #127

Yup. truebrit71 Nov 2012 #70

Personal physical safety is a valid life skill. FarCenter Nov 2012 #72

Don't LOOK like a victim HockeyMom Nov 2012 #76

"Refusing to be a victim" isn't going to keep you safe in any situation gollygee Nov 2012 #85

I'm sorry, but that's a bunch of victim blaming bullshit and I won't stand for it. LeftyMom Nov 2012 #100

+a million XemaSab Nov 2012 #102

Thank you. Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #110

THIS THIS THIS obamanut2012 Nov 2012 #114

THAT just pisses me off. nt LittleGirl Nov 2012 #80

10 tips to end rape ornotna Nov 2012 #98

Hear! Hear! OnionPatch Nov 2012 #120

very good! renate Nov 2012 #129

THIS needs to be a seperate post Le Taz Hot Nov 2012 #131

If someone, anyone does not want sex...male or female...young or old...say NO. NO. NO. libdem4life Nov 2012 #99

I agree, but don't you tell your daughters to be safe? rainin Nov 2012 #106

yes... i teach both all sides to keep all safe in all ways. why would i hold back on seabeyond Nov 2012 #113

Avoid? So now it's back on the women. flvegan Nov 2012 #122

There was a serial rapist on the loose while I was at college. Turns out: NOT a student. Romulox Nov 2012 #123

The university should teach both. rateyes Nov 2012 #130

Rape is illegal Eyes of the World Nov 2012 #135

how many shows do you watch growing up the boys gigglin' amongst themselves giving girls booze until seabeyond Nov 2012 #136

It is wrong to characterize most college men in that way Jersey Devil Nov 2012 #137

really? this is what you got from the post? that i am calling all men rapist? EDUCATION seabeyond Nov 2012 #138

Here are a few techniques you might consider guardian Nov 2012 #139

There's nothing wrong with knowing how to avoid undesirable situations. OneTenthofOnePercent Nov 2012 #140

Amen and furthermore... Chalco Nov 2012 #141