General Discussion

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)

34. I've seen good men completely miss the boat on this shit

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 09:56 PM

Nov 2012

Notably our own Will Pitt finally had a come to Jesus moment. He's as fine of a progressive feminist guy as they come around here, and after more than ten years here FINALLY noticed the misogynistic swill that's been posted here for all of his 10+ years.
I know he's finally got a reason now that he's a daughter coming. But he's a great example of being clueless to a culture many of us have noted all along.
It happens to the best of men, Odin often talks about how he never took the issue seriously until it happened to a friend.

Jesus ice Christ dudes, stop pretending we're saying the majority are rapists and starting pointless threads defending all men. For once, *just listen* to what the women here are saying instead of imagining things and going off on the defensive. Because you are - whether intentionally or not- hijacking the conversation and saying our experiences and feelings are less valid. And really, FUCK THAT.

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Meet the Predators (men need to learn how to recognize and fight rape culture) [View all] redqueen Nov 2012 OP

one self kick redqueen Nov 2012 #1

Well worth the read leftstreet Nov 2012 #2

Yes, they will self-report. They will not use the word rape, but they will. redqueen Nov 2012 #3

Powerful, informative post! Highly recommend this one riderinthestorm Nov 2012 #4

It really is. redqueen Nov 2012 #7

acceptance=complicity sigmasix Nov 2012 #5

Thanks. redqueen Nov 2012 #16

It's so good to have it broken down like this ismnotwasm Nov 2012 #6

count me in sigmasix Nov 2012 #9

It is individuals, not 'culture'. The Doctor. Nov 2012 #8

I could say 'the ubiquitous aspects of human culture which enable rapists and the epidemic of redqueen Nov 2012 #13

Rape is illegal. The Doctor. Nov 2012 #25

Based on first hand experience- half the Fraternities at Rutgers bettyellen Nov 2012 #28

You cannot be serious Tsiyu Dec 2012 #54

*BRAVO* bettyellen Dec 2012 #57

Part of me is so disgusted with these posts Tsiyu Dec 2012 #59

It's about their ego.... So much so they need to deny the reality and the import bettyellen Dec 2012 #60

See my post to your "perfect" friend below ;) Tsiyu Dec 2012 #62

Perfect reply- this knee jerk defensive stuff has got to go. bettyellen Dec 2012 #63

Partly true. 92-96% of men are heavily invested in the fact that they're not rapists. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2012 #180

i explained and ee discussed with my 15 and 17 yr old sons, and hubby. seabeyond Dec 2012 #187

so much so, they absolutely refuse to listen or to help women out, I know. So sad their egos get the bettyellen Dec 2012 #214

Nearly 100% of women fear being raped. boston bean Dec 2012 #217

Yep... trumad Dec 2012 #191

Oh yeah, Tsiyu Dec 2012 #195

i do not define myself as a gender and love so many of them men on du.... and i dont stay out of the seabeyond Dec 2012 #199

They are the joy of my life Tsiyu Dec 2012 #206

sigh.... lol, seabeyond Dec 2012 #210

good luck to your boy Tsiyu Dec 2012 #212

I agree with everything you said, especially this part: steve2470 Dec 2012 #94

Thank you steve2470 Tsiyu Dec 2012 #168

It's like not tolerating racism Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #250

Yes, and chances are most men on DU do not Tsiyu Dec 2012 #251

I am serious. Rape is illegal. The Doctor. Dec 2012 #256

If the state can convince a jury. nt Deep13 Dec 2012 #235

Actually it is "culture" because acceptable sexism and "rights of women" or lack there of... vaberella Dec 2012 #143

So you're using examples from decades in the past to describe the present? The Doctor. Dec 2012 #270

individuals are constructed by their culture. Deep13 Dec 2012 #234

When the evolution is literally millions of times older than culture, The Doctor. Dec 2012 #257

pretty much. Deep13 Dec 2012 #258

I get that it can be self-reinforcing, The Doctor. Dec 2012 #259

Well, yeah, the evolution of humanity... Deep13 Dec 2012 #264

You didn't read the article Hippo_Tron Dec 2012 #262

That's six of one, The Doctor. Dec 2012 #266

Nature is the overriding motive Hippo_Tron Dec 2012 #267

Our culture says otherwise. The Doctor. Dec 2012 #268

Great post! MineralMan Nov 2012 #10

If everyone would do that redqueen Nov 2012 #18

Excellent article, and an excellent post! thucythucy Nov 2012 #11

Me too... redqueen Nov 2012 #19

Excellent post. This needs to be on the front page. geardaddy Nov 2012 #12

Thanks. redqueen Nov 2012 #21

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Nov 2012 #14

Very important piece caraher Nov 2012 #15

Actually... slutticus Nov 2012 #17

Kicked n/t Helen Reddy Nov 2012 #20

"The rapists can’t be your friends, and..." That is where this runs off the tracks. ieoeja Nov 2012 #22

Thank you so much for posting this etherealtruth Nov 2012 #23

Good read. Hayabusa Nov 2012 #24

Rec. Good article JohnnyLib2 Nov 2012 #26

Sorry, but most men have literally ZERO to do with this "rape culture" of which the author speaks TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #27

If you're in some sort of ivory tower where you e not been exposed to this bettyellen Nov 2012 #29

haha speaking of bruised egos and what not, might wanna reread your frothing response TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #30

Sorry to say you've made your own personal feelings bettyellen Nov 2012 #31

Things seen and experienced are also personal events, yeah? TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #32

No one anywhere said the majority of men participate in this bettyellen Nov 2012 #33

It is in the fucking OP: 4-8% of men are responsible for the vast majority of rapes. nt redqueen Nov 2012 #36

He's just trolling to derail...... bettyellen Nov 2012 #39

Yeah. How dare we consider the epidemic levels of sexual violene as more important redqueen Nov 2012 #40

Sometimes my refined sensibilities get hurt too bettyellen Nov 2012 #41

What a hypocrite TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #46

For you to claim you "never heard a rape joke" Tsiyu Dec 2012 #61

First of all, you have no idea what my experiences are TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #81

I think you're full of shit Tsiyu Dec 2012 #84

You ever been through either? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #89

My SIL was in the Marines and has a few tales to tell... Tsiyu Dec 2012 #90

Ah, so you've never PERSONALLY done the things you claim to know so well, then TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #92

Wow, keep digging that hole Tsiyu Dec 2012 #100

You really can't read, can you? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #106

I have defended men many, many times on DU Tsiyu Dec 2012 #113

Nope, not the life of a monk. Never said that, never implied it TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #118

This is absolutely hilarious Tsiyu Dec 2012 #127

Reading Comprehension 101 TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #130

Thank you for hijacking the thread Tsiyu Dec 2012 #136

Whew, now there is an adult response. My goodness such maturity TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #140

Do you feel better? Tsiyu Dec 2012 #144

Oh my. It continues! Well, I guess children's tantrums do tend to wear on TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #147

keep digging, oh glorious offended one Tsiyu Dec 2012 #155

Actually, I've said none of those things TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #162

You have indeed said it's "not your problem" Tsiyu Dec 2012 #173

Please point me to my quote where I said it's not my problem. If you can't, admit you're lying TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #176

By saying the blog in no way applies to you in Tsiyu Dec 2012 #188

Does contorting yourself so strenuously cause physical pain? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #192

Your own words Tsiyu Dec 2012 #197

Oh my sweet Jesus, just when I thought you couldn't possibly get any dumber you went and did TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #204

My friends on DU are getting a kick out of it Tsiyu Dec 2012 #207

Mine too! Isn't that cool? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #216

AMAZING!!!!!! Tsiyu Dec 2012 #221

At the least you've had a sheltered life. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #91

Nothing sheltered about it TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #101

I'm not calling you a liar. I just said your account of things seemed overly defensive. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #139

What in the world are you talking about? What insinuation? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #145

You've been putting words in other people's mouths this entire thread. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #149

Where, exactly? Just saying it more than once doesn't make it so. nt TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #154

It's VAIN, not vein.. And it's ironic you wouldn't know that, LOL. bettyellen Dec 2012 #161

oooh a spelling error. you really got me with that one! kudos. nt TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #163

I wonder if either of you realize how offensive your attitudes are TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #48

Not only are you not discriminating or raping.... bettyellen Dec 2012 #58

Do you have difficulty reading written words? You keep saying I said something that I didn't TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #65

It says right in the article that a small percentage of men are rapists, Quantess Dec 2012 #75

The OP also says "men need lessons" as if we're a bunch of idiots who don't know already that rape TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #77

This isn't about you, though. Quantess Dec 2012 #80

You're seeing something that isn't there, I'm afraid TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #86

I think your idea of "getting rid of sexism" is somewhat misguided. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #93

Well, that's not quite right either TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #103

Well if you really want to be honest about the world, you can't always use perfectly polite language nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #108

I'm not sure I know what that means TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #124

You claim you purposely avoid awful misogynist men-also that you've never seen or heard misogynist bettyellen Dec 2012 #172

No, I said I avoid types which might turn out to be bad acquaintances later on TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #175

you jumped the shark a while ago. but you go double down if your ego needs it so badly. bettyellen Dec 2012 #179

As I don't buy your pompous judgments of others, nor will I cede an argument I believe in TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #184

wow, thanks for allowing me to have my own opinion without the threat of PM stalking, LOL. bettyellen Dec 2012 #190

Does that pass for wit in your circles? Or is it pretty much seen as every bit as pathetic as it is TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #194

No, you're engaging in stereotyping by supporting someone who said "men need education" TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #45

You claim you're completely ignorant that misogynistic behavior happens, but are bettyellen Dec 2012 #53

Maybe if I type more slowly you'll comprehend it better? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #66

Sometimes I think DU's biggest problem of all, is people's compulsive need to engage in sophistry. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #83

That assumes you know my motivations TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #88

It's just a pervasive pattern I've noticed. Nothing personal, really. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #102

hehe I don't disagree with your assessment of the net TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #120

Gee mercuryblues Nov 2012 #42

First off, stow the attitude TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #44

thanks for telling me what mercuryblues Dec 2012 #50

It's a shame that some men think that way TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #69

why do men need to be educated? mercuryblues Dec 2012 #202

It most certainly IS NOT the culture despite the fact that unfortunately it does happen TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #215

DERP-you think there's just one single culture of men out there? Every school,company,neighborhood bettyellen Dec 2012 #237

oh my mercuryblues Dec 2012 #238

You are so self-righteous Tsiyu Dec 2012 #64

Back atcha TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #67

If I say "all men need to eat to stay alive" Tsiyu Dec 2012 #71

I see you completely ignored my point TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #72

Blah blah blah Tsiyu Dec 2012 #73

Just gonna slam your fingers in your ears and whine like a child then, eh? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #76

LOL Tsiyu Dec 2012 #82

Wow, how very childish of you TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #87

You're adorable, really Tsiyu Dec 2012 #95

What I'm saying, sport, for about the 50th time TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #111

You are the one acting like a misogynist but you don't want to be called on it Tsiyu Dec 2012 #119

For reference, I didn't call you childish because you're female, I did so because it's the truth TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #123

Derailing a conversation and making it about YOU, the MALE Tsiyu Dec 2012 #132

I didn't make the topic about males, the OP did that by saying "men need to learn" TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #137

I wouldn't call you a misogynist, but you do seem to be belittling the subject of misogyny. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #135

Show me one example where I stereotyped anyone or put words in their mouths TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #141

I think the point is you've been SEVERELY OVERREACTING this whole time. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #133

Ahh yes, everyone who takes offense at being stereotyped is always overreacting and emotional TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #170

All women need... letemrot Dec 2012 #97

The point is that if ALL men Tsiyu Dec 2012 #104

How do you know most men do not act in letemrot Dec 2012 #107

Once again, you poor, poor man Tsiyu Dec 2012 #115

what is so mercuryblues Dec 2012 #242

Of course letemrot Dec 2012 #112

I just re-read the entire blog Tsiyu Dec 2012 #129

exactly. that's exactly my point. nt TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #125

If it's only "an opinion" then why are your posts so damn long? nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #126

no, I didn't "admit" that I'm "least affected" by the issue at hand TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #131

But you made this thread ALL ABOUT your hurt feelings. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #146

Friend, take a look at the title of the thread TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #148

The point is you threw a fit about "stereotyping" in the midst of a thread nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #151

No, in a thread about men's attitudes towards rape I both gave my own attitude TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #156

Your *whole argument* is a strawman. Again, *no one* on this thread is lumping all men together nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #159

"men need to learn" with reference to not supporting rape is the very definition TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #164

So this is all about... sigh... FOUR FUCKING WORDS??? nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #169

Jesus, I suggest you reread what you've written to me TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #171

Funny, the blog was written by a man Tsiyu Dec 2012 #231

"Stow the attitude"? Considering what she just described, that's a really self-centered post. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #122

I didn't cause their suffering or misfortune, thus I don't deserve the attitude for it TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #128

It just wasn't the thing to say right at that moment. Came off as insensitive. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #160

Tough. I don't owe anyone niceties or sensitivity. I do owe them the truth and that's what I've TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #167

The truth about an ex frat boy marine who's heard nary a misogynist word spoken his whole life? bettyellen Dec 2012 #174

Dear Lord. You can't be that dense, can you? TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #178

LOL, your reply is about how you successfully stereotype people who "look" misogynist? Ha ha. bettyellen Dec 2012 #181

Uh, making judgments about who you want to be friends with based on their attitudes TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #185

yeah, mercuryblues Dec 2012 #249

Human behavior isn't divided into black-and-white categories. It's a CONTIUUM. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #79

Who said I was "squeaky clean?" TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #85

"Who said I was 'squeaky clean'"? You just gave an exaggerated impression of such, that's all. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #99

+100000 Tsiyu Dec 2012 #109

Like I said, it's sophistry. Arguing for the sake of arguing. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #117

It's pretty darned offensive to me Tsiyu Dec 2012 #142

Uh, saying I haven't hung around with rapists is hardly giving an impression of prudishness TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #114

I'm sorry, I *still* don't see where they're "stereotyping all men." nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #116

Yes, it is serious. Your taxonomy of the degrees of offense doesn't diminish what others feel TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #134

How is being "stereotyped" anywhere near as serious as being fucking RAPED??? nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #153

I couldn't give two shits about you being angry TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #165

Maybe not such an unreasonable post, but it comes off as awfully self-centered. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #74

The holier-than-thou part was intentional as I find it holier-than-thou that TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #78

Again, why so defensive? It seems completely out proportion to any potential harm done you. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #110

The funny part is that you seem to firmly believe that I'm upset TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #152

You just contradicted yourself. Either this stuff is serious and important, or it's not. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #157

Man you're either dim or intentionally obtuse to a degree I've never seen before TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #166

and either he's seen not one bit of misogyny in his whole life, or he's worked to avoid associating bettyellen Dec 2012 #177

No, that's not what I claimed TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #182

I've seen good men completely miss the boat on this shit bettyellen Nov 2012 #34

Oh we have seen plenty if it here. redqueen Nov 2012 #35

If you're not saying majority then stop using the universal word "men" which means all of them TeamsterDem Nov 2012 #47

I know, that galls me too every time I see it. polly7 Dec 2012 #49

Where did any woman here say the majority of men were potential rapists? bettyellen Dec 2012 #52

Really?? polly7 Dec 2012 #55

I'm saying these particular men's FALSE claims of broad brushing bettyellen Dec 2012 #56

You are supporting someone who hijacked this thread for their own Tsiyu Dec 2012 #150

It's not so much about you. More about the poster who took over this whole thread nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #158

Very well said TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #68

WTF- I said some good men.... Then addressed the dudes with BS ops bettyellen Dec 2012 #51

It wasn't in reference to that particular post, rather to the broader theme TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #70

i have often found your "rape culture" posts to be accusatory and offensive arely staircase Nov 2012 #37

Well thank fucking goddess a man finally said it nicely enough. nt redqueen Nov 2012 #38

K&R JoeyT Nov 2012 #43

k&r nt steve2470 Dec 2012 #96

These rape threads make DU feminists look petty Eyes of the World Dec 2012 #98

Not as petty as some of the responses on this thread (not necessarily yours). Just saying... nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #105

thanks for the sanity and honest take on things bettyellen Dec 2012 #186

I'm beginning mercuryblues Dec 2012 #239

I'm beginning to think you are right too.... One warning sign it took me a while to learn bettyellen Dec 2012 #240

the sad part is mercuryblues Dec 2012 #243

oh, they'd find another excuse to take over the conversation..... bettyellen Dec 2012 #244

Rape is not a petty issue Tsiyu Dec 2012 #200

We have rape culture proponents right here at DU, men who post stuff like this: geek tragedy Dec 2012 #260

Please provide your honest reaction to this language: geek tragedy Dec 2012 #261

Discussing rape makes feminists look petty? obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #269

After reading this op and the responses I find myself thinking of what happens when retread Dec 2012 #121

Nicely put. nt redqueen Dec 2012 #183

very apt. i like. nt seabeyond Dec 2012 #189

+1, thanks. nt. Mc Mike Dec 2012 #138

This particular thread Helen Reddy Dec 2012 #193

People insisting upon fair treatment are often "cacophonous" and seen as "rigid" TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #196

What would be "FAIR" sir, Helen Reddy Dec 2012 #198

I agree. That would be more than fair, it'd be human. And about past time that they do, too. nt TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #205

You're seriously calling the author of this blog post a bigot? redqueen Dec 2012 #203

he read the blog post all wrong and just cannot admit it. bettyellen Dec 2012 #209

Nope, read it just as it's written TeamsterDem Dec 2012 #219

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #218

No reason to be unnerve. Springslips Dec 2012 #220

Re: pinging redqueen Dec 2012 #223

it makes me think of my cousin, I remember how he'd have people wincing with some of the nasty shit bettyellen Dec 2012 #230

but you see, many guys will argue that the pocket of culture you stumbled upon doesn't exist at all bettyellen Dec 2012 #226

I think the pinging is insecurity Prism Dec 2012 #236

Okay, I hate rapists... Deep13 Dec 2012 #233

In spite of the fact that only 4-8% of men rape, CrispyQ Dec 2012 #201

One male 'genius' on DU said since he didn't personally think that women felt any more fear than men redqueen Dec 2012 #208

hey redqueen Tsiyu Dec 2012 #211

Thank you, Tsiyu. redqueen Dec 2012 #213

There are some awesomely great guys upthread, though Tsiyu Dec 2012 #225

Yeah, a lot of awesome male allies... and some new ones too. redqueen Dec 2012 #232

And thank YOU, Tsiyu thucythucy Dec 2012 #253

... Tsiyu Dec 2012 #255

I guess we need a new article too "Meet the Pettifoggers"-- Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #222

lol Tsiyu Dec 2012 #227

Beauty! MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #228

K&R stevenleser Dec 2012 #224

what about relatives? Deep13 Dec 2012 #229

Family is tricky. I'd base my reactions around his current situation. Is he still having exploitive bettyellen Dec 2012 #241

Well,... Deep13 Dec 2012 #245

well, it sounds like he's a run of the mill asshole. bettyellen Dec 2012 #246

Good for you! Deep13 Dec 2012 #247

yep, assholes drag everyone into their messy lives one way or another if you let them bettyellen Dec 2012 #248

Thank you again, Redqueen, for this excellent thucythucy Dec 2012 #252

The thread is mercuryblues Dec 2012 #254

One thing I'd ask, don't women have just as much of a responsibility to combat it too? Hippo_Tron Dec 2012 #263

Yes, rape culture is fueled by both women and men gollygee Dec 2012 #265