Meet the Predators (men need to learn how to recognize and fight rape culture)

[TeamsterDem]

69. It's a shame that some men think that way

with respect to "putting out" and that stuff. It's not a crime but it sure is embarrassing and offensive that some men still think women owe them sex. I've heard of it, but honestly I've never heard a guy claim anything like that. I did hear some guys saying that so-and-so is willing, so then the others would say they'd prefer to go on a date with her. But I never heard anyone say anything about rape or condoning it. If I had I would have called the police.

What I'm saying is NOT that there are no men like this. Clearly there are, and the prisons have many offenders locked up for being rapists, including so-called "date rapes" (which I think is an awful term because it of course diminishes the cruelty of the crime). Instead, I'm saying that some broad representation in the male population of rapists and rape supporters doesn't exist nearly to the extent that's suggested here. That doesn't diminish the fact that it does occur, nor does it diminish the idea that if a man hears that his buddy raped a passed-out girl (the "drunk girl" scenario from above) that he SHOULD call the police. I agree with those things, and certainly rape should never be an issue not to be talked about. But that's what we're doing: We're talking about it. I'm simply telling you my side of it. I realize you didn't ask for my side, but this is a discussion board open to you and I equally, and it's an important topic that I think deserves discussion.

With respect to the universality of the claim, look, we both speak English. We both know that when referencing a gender, without clear descriptors defining how much of the gender you're referring to, that the term "men" or "women" is taken as a universal concept. No one says "men are x" when they only mean certain men. They say "men are x" to denote ALL men, otherwise they'd use an adjective to whittle the definition down to where they were aiming. If I were to say "women need x" - and assuming I didn't say oxygen, food, or water in x's place - I'd be generalizing/stereotyping women ... ALL of them. If I narrowed my phrase to "some women need x," it could possibly be offensive depending on what x was, or it could be perfectly benign. But there is no limiter to "men need education," as that implies we're all or mostly all pretty much the same article when in fact we're not. You know damn well you'd take offense if it were done in reverse, so feigning ignorance only serves to suggest hypocrisy is a rather accurate description of your actions here tonight.

Of course your bolded points only serve to highlight the egregiousness of the original claim (to wit that men need education), as you yourself note that 4-8% of men engage in the crime. So why then do we all require education? Does any other group require "education" for the sins of what 4-8% of its population engages in? At what statistical point does a group start requiring universal lessons?

With respect to "which is it," I'd point out that movies aren't real life, so just as I've seen astronauts land on an asteroid and blow it up to keep it from striking earth in movies yet don't claim to have actually seen such a phenomenon, I don't then lay claim to having "seen" a particular thing if where I saw it was a movie. And you're also missing the point: I didn't say that some men aren't criminals and assholes. What I said is that it's not all of them. If it's not all of them, not all of them need education. That's a pretty natural point, one which shouldn't require much explanation to someone not intentionally feigning to be obtuse.

In any circle I've ever been a part of, had someone claimed to have raped a girl that person could've counted on the police showing up. Perhaps throughout my life being a Marine, a Teamster, and a fraternity brother (3 of the places most known for "manly" shenanigans) I've been sheltered in some "ivory tower" (as someone else put it) away from the real men who do these sorts of things, but somehow I rather doubt that. What I suspect instead is that mine is a fairly common experience, and that the vast male plot to rape and/or support rape just doesn't exist on any grand enough scale to require whole-gender education, and is instead comprised of the statistically few sick creeps that do it and absolutely deserve the harshest of prison sentences for it.

Any idiot who needs to be told that raping a woman is wrong and should neither be done nor condoned/covered-up is far too stupid to comprehend such a concept anyway, so I'm not sure what "education" is available to someone who doesn't see the innate wrong in rape or its cover-up. It's a lot like murder or child abuse in my view: If you don't already know those things are wrong, I'm not sure what sort of a "lesson" will teach that to you.