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Moostache

(11,130 posts)
86. I have zero use for religion in any form, but even less for the ones that intentionally deceive.
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 12:53 PM
Jan 2012

First of all, ALL religious people - unless they are pan-religious (meaning they simultaneously believe ALL religions...ie. NO-ONE!!!) are already atheists -1, meaning that they reject ALL other religions except for the one they have either chosen to follow or were born into and raised to believe in. When people ask me why I don't believe in their chosen deity, I always ask them why they reject Zeus and Jupiter and they have their answer.

Not a single human being is inherently religious, but ALL human beings are inherently curious and employ rudimentary scientific method techniques (trial and error mostly) to understand the world around them. It starts with the infant who cries for attention and help and nearly immediately determines that this action produces a reaction - help arrives in the form of the parent or care giver for the infant. From this early understanding of cause-and-effect, humans are inherently curious beings - UNLESS they are religiously abused.

I have a barely controllable fury regarding religion and its affects on people as it is starting to impact my children.

I have raised all of my children in a religion-free environment. We do NOT attend churches, or synagogues, or mosques, or temples. We do NOT pray to invisible men in the sky or to personal saviors or to nature itself. We do NOT condemn people for what they are or for who they choose to love or how they express that love. We do NOT care what other people eat, what they say in their homes or what they do in their bedrooms. We do NOT lie to our children with fairy tales and lies, instead giving the scientific reasons for things like thunder and death and life and all things in between.

We DO celebrate empathy and compassion and discuss the importance of generosity and caring about the people in our community and in our larger sphere of influence and interaction. We DO discuss love and family and the ties that bind us to each other and to our family but also to our fellow people of any color and any background. We DO discuss the need for money and the dangers of becoming obsessed with it above all else. We DO recognize that we are fortunate in many ways, and while we are not "rich" beyond measure, we acknowledge our good fortune to live a decent and comfortable life, free of privation and want. We DO discuss ways to help make a difference in the world and how to positively impact the world around us during out finite time in it.

For this, my daughter has started to become a target. She has kids at her middle school, a public school here in god-forsaken East Kansas (otherwise known as the state of Missouri) begin asking her why she doesn't believe in Jesus. They spit out the word atheist at her as if it is a contagious disease (which in reality and the light of open inquiry and education it IS, but not in the way these cretins think). They have begun excluding her in some circles and trying to sway her to their thinking in others.

This pains me, physically and emotionally.

I do not want to see my children in any kind of pain; but thankfully, the pain is more mine than my daughter's. She simply deflects the inquiries and pays no mind to the people obsessed with trying to make her like them, with those trying to define her instead of having her determine who she is on her own. Instead, she focuses on the things that she wants and does and how to keep getting better. She is a voracious reader and a constant Facebooker. She does jazz band and cheerleading. She is in student council and on the archery team. She is an honors student and tudor and mentor for younger students and also sings in the choir. In short, my daughter is everything I ever hoped for and more. She is what I had hoped for when I decided consciously to exclude religion and its teachings from my family life. She is the greatest example of morality without sacred texts that I know.

But the small minds and religiously motivated are persistent and unwilling to accept this. My daughter is an emerging threat to them and they are starting to react to this perceived threat. If a child can be all that my daughter is without the influence or interference of religion, well that does not sit too well with the Jeebus-worshipping crowd. There are actually young girls among those at her school who are spreading entirely false rumors about my daughter...things like she was promiscuous and a little too "hands-on" with some of the boys (entirely untrue accusations and rumors, but also 100% impossible to combat). There have been more than one in the last month that have told her she is "weird" and two that have asked her if she worships the devil (which she actually found amusing).

I am a scientist by trade (working for 20+ years with bacteria, antibiotics, protein purification and the like) and my daughter has a similar love of science, having been a three time school winner in the science fair with little to no direct help from me on her experiments beyond critiquing the experimental design and data presentation. She has performed the experiments herself and she has collected the data and she has defended the results in the science fair judging each year. The apple did not fall far from the tree and I love that, almost as much as I love my daughter. But I still cannot help but feel a certain amount of rage for those who would look at what she is and see something that is "wrong" or "abnormal" or "dangerous".

I know I am prejudiced beyond any semblance of partiality; but I wish the world was populated by MORE people like my daughter - bright, inquisitive, caring, sensitive, loving and kind.

BTW...one of her favorite songs happens to be one my favorites as well:

Imagine there's no heaven.
It's easy if you try.

No hell below us.
Above us only sky.

Imagine all the people
Living life in peace.

You may say I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one.

I hope some day you'll join us,
and the world will live as one.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Evolution is just a theory Ichingcarpenter Jan 2012 #1
Then how do you explain this? limpyhobbler Jan 2012 #3
They ended up being all smokers after that Ichingcarpenter Jan 2012 #12
That's not a real photograph - mr blur Jan 2012 #100
I'm not so sure Mr Blur Son of Gob Jan 2012 #103
+1 WhoIsNumberNone Jan 2012 #18
'hypothesis' is a bit generous for creationism muriel_volestrangler Jan 2012 #21
I'd call it pigheadedness RainDog Jan 2012 #23
I thought the word is pass their understanding too Ichingcarpenter Jan 2012 #24
Technically zipplewrath Jan 2012 #53
Exactly. surrealAmerican Jan 2012 #78
An alternative theory.. Fumesucker Jan 2012 #2
Disagree Possumpoint Jan 2012 #5
Do you also disagree with the theory in the OP? n/t Fumesucker Jan 2012 #8
The OP notes there are many people with religious belief that understand and accept evolution RainDog Jan 2012 #9
"Religious belief interferes with people's understanding of evolution" Fumesucker Jan 2012 #13
it also appears to interfere with a govt that cares about the poor and the middle class RainDog Jan 2012 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #4
just wow limpyhobbler Jan 2012 #7
more graphs to come! RainDog Jan 2012 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #29
So of the nations surveyed, we come in next to last? WhoIsNumberNone Jan 2012 #16
And notice how the top nations all have social democracies RainDog Jan 2012 #19
That is PATHETIC Arugula Latte Jan 2012 #45
yeah. and people around here don't like to see uncomfortable truths RainDog Jan 2012 #52
Yep. A big reason our country is in so much trouble is because of religion-bred ignorance/delusion Arugula Latte Jan 2012 #89
well, I do think there's a difference b/t specific issues RainDog Jan 2012 #93
Fascinating chart..... dixiegrrrrl Jan 2012 #83
wow... that is scary Marrah_G Jan 2012 #99
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #11
2008 Electoral College Results - 3 Maps RainDog Jan 2012 #15
Boy, it really drops sharply when you get to the Christian denominations, doesn't it? WhoIsNumberNone Jan 2012 #14
I would - Catholics and liturgical Christians - i.e. Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc. RainDog Jan 2012 #17
This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Jan 2012 #76
Catholic theologians have long accepted evolution bklyncowgirl Jan 2012 #109
I have never had a problem reconciling the two. Are_grits_groceries Jan 2012 #20
I respect that some people have a belief in god RainDog Jan 2012 #22
Your election graph is inaccurate. mmonk Jan 2012 #25
I got it from huffpo. can you find an accurate one, snookums? :) RainDog Jan 2012 #27
You are aggravated with a map direction? dixiegrrrrl Jan 2012 #84
got the correct one RainDog Jan 2012 #28
No problem. mmonk Jan 2012 #32
I'm glad you pointed it out RainDog Jan 2012 #33
Thanks for the thread. mmonk Jan 2012 #34
go for it, mr. economist guy! :) RainDog Jan 2012 #35
. mmonk Jan 2012 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #26
"Belief gets in the way of thinking" hobbit709 Jan 2012 #30
... RainDog Jan 2012 #36
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #31
The interpretation of religion interferes with understanding LeftinOH Jan 2012 #37
Well no shit, when you fill a persons brain with stupid from a young age snooper2 Jan 2012 #38
religion = insanity.... mike_c Jan 2012 #40
Intolerance = delusional, willful ignorance. HappyMe Jan 2012 #41
I don't "tolerate" delusion.... mike_c Jan 2012 #42
Stating that religion = insanity educates no one, HappyMe Jan 2012 #43
what's interesting about these stats RainDog Jan 2012 #44
that's why, by definition, they are not sane.... mike_c Jan 2012 #46
Thank goodness we have people like you to point out the insane! HappyMe Jan 2012 #47
actually, you can change my mind in an instant.... mike_c Jan 2012 #49
Isn't the definition of insanity... BillStein Jan 2012 #80
I think it's more complicated than that RainDog Jan 2012 #48
yes, but implicit in the argument that religious believers have been psychologically abused... mike_c Jan 2012 #50
in that case, people need help to come to terms with reality RainDog Jan 2012 #51
in reply to your edit RainDog Jan 2012 #57
There are lots of other statistical maps that could be overlaid on those MNBrewer Jan 2012 #54
Also the states that receive federal taxes vs those who pay them RainDog Jan 2012 #56
I don't have access to this article at this time RainDog Jan 2012 #111
K/R Dawson Leery Jan 2012 #55
Religious belief interferes with people. sarcasmo Jan 2012 #58
1925 - The Scopes "Monkey" Trial BrendaBrick Jan 2012 #59
Inherit the wind is a great movie! RainDog Jan 2012 #64
Inherit The Wind is in my Top 10 BrendaBrick Jan 2012 #79
I love that movie too RainDog Jan 2012 #81
William Jennings Byran, who defended creationism, was supported by the KKK RainDog Jan 2012 #74
On the nces link BrendaBrick Jan 2012 #82
The Arkansas Nine RainDog Jan 2012 #94
What's interesting is that the right wing has used the same fears for decades RainDog Jan 2012 #106
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #60
LOL RainDog Jan 2012 #62
You are so funny!!! Lol!!! Lost-in-FL Jan 2012 #65
Aspirin? Solly Mack Jan 2012 #66
that poster has evolved to another lifeform - a tombstone n/t RainDog Jan 2012 #67
Good. I know stupid has to hurt so I offered up an aspirin. Solly Mack Jan 2012 #68
the first interaction I had with this person RainDog Jan 2012 #69
Me, too. Solly Mack Jan 2012 #70
Bout Fuckin Time. Warren DeMontague Jan 2012 #73
a fab book on this is Larry Witham's "Where Darwin Meets the Bible" MisterP Jan 2012 #61
the only one I saw was just by country RainDog Jan 2012 #63
speaking of the KKK RainDog Jan 2012 #71
It's amazing to see exactly what stupidity does to the brain. hyphenate Jan 2012 #72
I want to be better than that RainDog Jan 2012 #75
This message was self-deleted by its author Tesha Jan 2012 #77
Your graphs and links have made this one of the most informative posts dixiegrrrrl Jan 2012 #85
Thanks! RainDog Jan 2012 #87
I have zero use for religion in any form, but even less for the ones that intentionally deceive. Moostache Jan 2012 #86
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #88
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #90
On those *creepy feelings* BrendaBrick Jan 2012 #92
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #95
fraud vs fact BrendaBrick Jan 2012 #96
I'm just not that interested in that book anymore RainDog Jan 2012 #97
I don't know if this still applies BrendaBrick Jan 2012 #102
This message was self-deleted by its author RainDog Jan 2012 #107
I lived 25 years in Wheaton, IL, the first question you were asked was what church did you go to? riderinthestorm Jan 2012 #101
I'm super religious and I believe in evolution. okieinpain Jan 2012 #91
are you Christian? RainDog Jan 2012 #98
i know you weren't asking me, but i am a christian and i believe in evolution arely staircase Jan 2012 #110
Funny but true explanation from a segment on The Big Bang Theory: Ilsa Jan 2012 #104
and that seems to get to the crux of the problem! :) n/t RainDog Jan 2012 #105
Evolution is Satan's religion! B Calm Jan 2012 #108
k/r Dawson Leery Jun 2012 #112
interesting graphs, huh? RainDog Jun 2012 #113
The percents among Buddhists and Hindus explain why China and India are kicking our asses in science yardwork Nov 2012 #114
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