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Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
39. Ah.. The famous "Bohemian Grove alibi"...
Mon Dec 3, 2012, 01:21 PM
Dec 2012

Yeah, that certainly could be the truth... To me, not the most convincing of alibis... Considering...

"But by the time that Congress undertook to investigate the October Surprise allegations, William Casey had long since passed away. Congressional investigators were unable to locate his passport for the period in question, and some relevant pages from his desk calendar were also missing. Investigators needed to determine which weekend Casey had been at the Bohemian Grove encampment, which lasts more than two weeks each summer. If Casey had been at the Grove July 26 and 27 of 1980, it would debunk an important element of the October Surprise allegations. But if Casey had been at the Grove the first weekend in August, it wouldn't prove the allegation, but the question would remain open. Investigators obtained records from the Bohemian Grove encampment, and Parsonage camp members were interviewed.

The House Task Force put Casey at the Grove the weekend of July 26 and 27, and the task force Chairman Lee Hamilton cited that alibi in his op-ed piece in the Sunday, January 24, 1993 New York Times titled "Case Closed." Hamilton wrote, "The task force did not locate Mr Casey's 1980 passport, and one of the three Casey 1980 calendars the task force did obtain - a looseleaf version - was missing a few crucial pages. But the absence of these materials did not prevent us from determining the whereabouts of Mr. Casey and others on dates when meetings were claimed to have occurred. Credible witnesses and corroborating documents showed Mr. Casey to be in California..." (Taking an opposite view on the op-ed page, former Carter administration official Gary Sick wrote, "...the report says Mr. Casey could not have attended a Madrid meeting the weekend of July 26-27 because he was at the Bohemian Grove outside San Francisco. Yet the committee's own evidence places him at the Grove the following weekend, from Aug. 1 to Aug. 3"

http://www.sonic.net/~kerry/bohemian/casey.html (article based on portions of Sick/Parry


My take:

The inquiry asks us to believe that Casey was at BH at a certain date. We do not have insight into what testimony (the talk is of "stubs", diaries, and witnesses) led them to that conclusion. There are two possible dates for Casey's BH sojourn, only one of which negates the Madrid meeting scenario (the question of whether there is any reason to believe that those took place is a different, albeit maybe more important one). Given the location of the testimony under discussion, skeptical (as well as paranoid) minds may not be convinced. On the other hand,, this might also just be one of those cosmic coincidences that seem to fuel most conspiratorial thinking.

I'd certainly enjoy the opportunity to have a look at the substance of the alibi itself. Wonder if it would convince me... Or if it would all be based on familiar names, friends of the family. I can't really make up my mind definitively without doing that. The Reagan campaign staff always seemed very creepy to me, more like an anti-Carter intel op than a regular campaign. Of course, creepiness is not evidence, so it all comes down to one weekend at the Grove, or not...

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yup thelordofhell Dec 2012 #1
you realize that page is labeled "conspiracy theory." BainsBane Dec 2012 #49
I was always under the impression, LeftofObama Dec 2012 #2
or the Ayatollah just really hated Carter BainsBane Dec 2012 #51
yes graham4anything Dec 2012 #3
Yeah, see Argo and NOT learn the truth. Darth_Kitten Dec 2012 #34
They did say that some part were fictionalized for drama purpose question everything Dec 2012 #45
Probably at least I think so. I remember hearing that Arafat told Carter that Reagan cut a deal and craigmatic Dec 2012 #4
That is a prevalent theory. Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #5
You should check out Barbara Honegger's book of the same title DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #12
Probably not. Deep13 Dec 2012 #6
I'm not so sure about that. Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #11
No. Carter & his administration worked tirelessly in the final hours for a safe release... Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #7
i recall hearing they were very close to a deal in october and they abrutly stopped talks unblock Dec 2012 #13
I think there were issues with the assets the government had originally frozen. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #15
It's where the phrase "October Surprise" comes from... Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #47
I've got a bridge........ WinkyDink Dec 2012 #18
So you think Carter did nothing to help release those hostages? Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #22
You are conflating two discrete occurrences. Yes, Carter worked at it; but yes, Reagan committed WinkyDink Dec 2012 #42
No I'm not. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #44
The deal at the end didn't matter Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #48
Doubt it... Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #54
I think you're missing the larger point... Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #55
No I'm not. Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #57
It's not that Carter didn't do anything... Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #58
Reagan interfered, but is not the reason those hostages were released... Drunken Irishman Dec 2012 #59
Well.... Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #60
I don't believe it was Reagan himself, but his vp. Reagan himself wasn't smart enough graham4anything Dec 2012 #52
I think you"ve gotten this right. marybourg Dec 2012 #53
James Baker & the boyzzzz let him know he would get a "better deal" from St Ronnie SoCalDem Dec 2012 #8
Didn't Ollie North pretty much admit it? zbdent Dec 2012 #9
No, that was Iran-Contra Scootaloo Dec 2012 #28
gosh no, they released them in exchange for nothing because reagan talked tough! unblock Dec 2012 #10
And he made us feel good about ourselves... Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #50
According to Gary Sick, Yasser Arafat, Abolhassan Bani-Sadr... Octafish Dec 2012 #14
Interesting. This means that the campaign was dealing in foreign policy question everything Dec 2012 #16
Look at Reagan's campaign staff Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #19
I Have Always Considered that A Fact, Sir The Magistrate Dec 2012 #17
Republican treason against the USA Berlum Dec 2012 #20
further important info Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #21
Sure. Poppy was the point man. Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #23
This is a conspiracy theory which really took off when the internet came into use. former9thward Dec 2012 #24
Have the congressional inquiries established the whereabouts of Bill Casey in 89/90?? Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #31
Yes they did. former9thward Dec 2012 #38
Ah.. The famous "Bohemian Grove alibi"... Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #39
And some people just love to believe that the top-most power-players do not communicate with each WinkyDink Dec 2012 #43
I thought so, & there was evidence they did. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #25
I have always believed there was. liberal N proud Dec 2012 #26
Yes. Repukes have been getting away with treason since Doctor_J Dec 2012 #27
Yes. truebluegreen Dec 2012 #29
Probably. moondust Dec 2012 #30
yes, 'as if' reagan released the hostages. spanone Dec 2012 #37
Yes, which is why it was treason. He was not President when he did it. Motown_Johnny Dec 2012 #32
Yes (See Iran-Contra). This is what happens when the powerful are above the law. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #33
Lyndon LaRouche and his followers started what came to be known as the "October Surprise" allegation NNN0LHI Dec 2012 #35
Not really. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #40
they did what they could to belittle Carter. they hated him. God forbid we have an honest politician spanone Dec 2012 #36
I don't know what it is about Carter. I idealize him, like he was the true thing. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #41
Evidence is largely circumstantial at best freethought Dec 2012 #46
Thoreau... Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #56
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