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Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)

43. I'm not so sure anymore...

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 02:08 PM

Dec 2012

Surely, most men aren't rapists. There are certain subsets in our (and other) cultures that are conducive to rape though, and I think that was the original point of discussion when it all started this weekend.

I've seen so much hand-wringing, second-guessing posts about rape by men in the last days that I have come to think that I have seriously overrated what it means to post here. I clearly have allot less in common with some of the male posters here than I ever could have imagined.

A big part of getting over or learning to live with being a rape victim is other people's reaction to the subject when it comes up, whether intentionally or not. Some of the male "but but but" posts in these thread just eerily remind me of all the people around me "but but buttting" about what had taken place.... Not careful enough. Naive... Asked for it... Provoked it.. Caused it... The kind of existential betrayal by humanity felt in those moments.... Is not easily dealt with when you discover that they're the fucking norm in discussions about rape... 20 years after... On your favorite place in the whole world wild web, the internet family, so to speak. You'd think.. that things would have changed. To think that they haven't, here, of all places... Well... Seems this is just another discussion board after all. Not less, but certainly not more, anymore.

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The vast majority of men have never raped nor thought about raping anyone. [View all] Kurska Dec 2012 OP

Trying to define the parameters of someone else's conversation rarely works too well... Just FYI... nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #1

Having read here this week, I am not convinced at all that all of the men here are allies of women LeftyMom Dec 2012 #2

Which is why, as I said, trying to define the parameters of discussion for others is not a good idea nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #3

Instead of "discuss"ing what have experienced, people need to shut their mouths and open their ears. LeftyMom Dec 2012 #7

But don't one way conversations only go so far? Kurska Dec 2012 #10

Conversations only move forward when everybody involved knows what they're talking about. LeftyMom Dec 2012 #13

Most informative conversations happen between unequally informed parties. Kurska Dec 2012 #18

That's not what's going on here. LeftyMom Dec 2012 #20

Do you feel like my op is dismissing anyone? Kurska Dec 2012 #22

I think you probably missed out on some of these threads. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #24

I'm student and it is finals week, I most certainly have. Kurska Dec 2012 #26

I agree with you totally. Just pointing out why some female posters might be on the defensive. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #30

Men, unless they have been raped, do not get "views" on rape obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #53

Yes, I find your OP dismissive obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #52

+1 nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #23

men are suggesting slogans, rewriting posters and saying ANY education directed at men is bettyellen Dec 2012 #37

There have been several posters who have used MRA bullet points obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #54

Well you could tell quite a bit was cut and pasting because bettyellen Dec 2012 #61

it would, wouldn't it? obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #62

It's just that some have hijacked the "rape threads" as a forum for their own egos. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #14

please relook at all the thread jacking, because you're giving some people bettyellen Dec 2012 #15

No disagreement here. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #11

Please don't use the "D" word. nt Bonobo Dec 2012 #17

If you've never been a soldier shut the fuck up about war? mythology Dec 2012 #32

I'd listen to what they had to say. LeftyMom Dec 2012 #33

wow mercuryblues Dec 2012 #48

Never been a solider? You don't get to say what combat was like obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #56

The majority of reseachers who professionally study PSTD from combat are not veterans Kurska Dec 2012 #66

And you are a researcher? Have you made a study of rape? Or are you a guy on a message board? Squinch Dec 2012 #78

You're the only person I've seen telling people to shut up, actually. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #39

Well then, you've missed a fuck ton. bettyellen Dec 2012 #41

what if sigmasix Dec 2012 #42

I would never ever trivialize what you have LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #76

You're just hysterical XemaSab Dec 2012 #4

(i heard she was PMSing) obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #57

And I agree that there seem to be some real creeps around at DU. nomorenomore08 Dec 2012 #5

It is impossible to overreact to rape, it is a horrible crime. Kurska Dec 2012 #8

and most of the unfit are telling us "how" we should talk to them, same as you. bettyellen Dec 2012 #12

I view open, honest and respectful dialogue is the best way to reach anyone about any topic. Kurska Dec 2012 #16

Oh I do. But if you go through these threads you'll see evidence of many people there to bettyellen Dec 2012 #19

If you give up on that noble goal because of disrupters, then doesn't that mean they won? n/t Kurska Dec 2012 #21

If you give lip service to their "concerns" about how we talk about this.... the conversation bettyellen Dec 2012 #27

Lets say a man has a real and genuine concern that the conversation is stereotyping him as a rapist. Kurska Dec 2012 #28

if his ego concerns are more important than my health and welfare to the extent that's all he wants bettyellen Dec 2012 #36

You are assuming that the goal here is to convince men of something. It isn't. Squinch Dec 2012 #79

Me too.....+1 LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #55

Can you give an example of someone who is "pro-rape?" Lightbulb_on Dec 2012 #60

Rapist are scum who put their basest sexual desires about the rights and well being of other people niyad Dec 2012 #6

You're right, I'll edit my OP Kurska Dec 2012 #9

Isn't saying "basest sexual desires" also saying it is about sex? Bonobo Dec 2012 #25

if it were about sex, there are other outlets available. niyad Dec 2012 #38

There are other outlets for violence too. nt Bonobo Dec 2012 #40

You know, that's pretty easy to say Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #29

You certainly won't find me among the number who say raping someone who is asleep is okay. Kurska Dec 2012 #31

Congratulations. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #34

Hey man, I'm agreeing with the thing that seemed the most important to you. Kurska Dec 2012 #35

But you did say Squinch Dec 2012 #77

good post -- op worthy obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #59

I'm not so sure anymore... Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #43

So very well said. nt redqueen Dec 2012 #45

Thank you for this post. Really. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #46

+ a million. Thank you. LiberalLoner Dec 2012 #58

I'm really getting tired of DU men explaining rape to me. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #44

It's too bad polls are no longer anonymous FedUpWithIt All Dec 2012 #49

Ugh, I'm so sorry you went through all of that. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #50

"It's not true that the vast majority of rapists are serial predators." Incorrect Kurska Dec 2012 #67

Point out as much as you like, Kurska. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #73

Enthusiatic consent? Dokkie Dec 2012 #71

Well, maybe you should think about that a bit longer. nt Chorophyll Dec 2012 #74

I have a new standard for rape Dokkie Dec 2012 #75

And yet when Assange is accused of rape, of course he's innocent ... Bake Dec 2012 #47

Disruptive OT BS. There was very divided opinion that. bettyellen Dec 2012 #63

No one has accused all men of being rapists obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #51

Yep. They're hollering about stuff that never happened. bettyellen Dec 2012 #64

I was raped at 16... a la izquierda Dec 2012 #65

I dont know if I am alone on this Dokkie Dec 2012 #68

Well do you believe that rape is wrong? Kurska Dec 2012 #69

Ofc not, I am not a wild animal Dokkie Dec 2012 #72

You have rape fantasies and blame them on a rape prevention teacher.... bettyellen Dec 2012 #80

Well, right about now I'm thinking of slapping someone upside his head. J/S. WinkyDink Dec 2012 #70