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Disaffected

(6,386 posts)
63. Oh, now you've got me going... :)
Mon Jul 22, 2024, 03:28 PM
Jul 2024

The results of the National Ignition facility laser fusion device have been widely miss-reported by both the media and, the facility itself (although in the NIF's case, more a significant lack of clarity).

The NIF correctly reported that the fusion energy generated by the plasma exceed the energy input to the plasma (by a factor or 3 or 4 IIRC). However, and this is a v big however, the energy input to the plasma (by the device's high power, pulsed lasers) was far smaller than the energy required to energize (or "pump" ) the lasers. and by a factor of, IIRC, several hundred.

The upshot is that the energy required to power the device was far larger than the energy generated and it was therefore no-where near to reaching the elusive goal of even energy breakeven let alone generating useful net energy.

The device has other daunting issues with it's potential to generate net energy. For one, the lasers generate a lot of heat (which is what most of the energy input to the device winds up as), take a long time to cool off and therefore can only be fired about once per day. There is nothing on the horizon AFAIK that will solve that particular issue. Another is the horrific cost of the device (many $ billion).

I don't believe the NIF was ever intended to be a viable source of fusion energy but was and is much more an R&D device originally intended for thermo-nuclear (hydrogen) bomb development.

Recommendations

2 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

My engineer father taught me that nuclear power isn't green GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #1
The waste in hydrogen fusion is helium. nt Gore1FL Jul 2024 #2
My engineer father taught me GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #3
When you BURN hydrogen (chemically), yes, the waste is water. 2H2 + O2 ---- 2H2O + heat (eg Hindenburg) The Unmitigated Gall Jul 2024 #6
Are you an engineer? GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #10
*Sigh* Congratulations for your father. The Unmitigated Gall Jul 2024 #13
No sorry but GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #14
Bullshit A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #24
Your disrespect for engineering expertise that GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #34
LMAO! Are you and your engineer father the same person? A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #37
There you go again with your disrespect for my father's engineering expertise GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #43
Want to know what is really amusing? A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #50
Again, your disrespect for my father's engineering expertise is offensive GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #54
You just go right ahead and keep beating that dead horse, OK? A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #56
I don't think they are disrespecting you. But this is new work. AllyCat Jul 2024 #78
Not all engieering is interchangable Blue Full Moon Jul 2024 #87
Come on, be nice please. AllyCat Jul 2024 #77
I never SAID I knew more than your father. The Unmitigated Gall Jul 2024 #31
Out of curiosity... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #15
Yes je was GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #16
So.... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #20
My engineer father's engineering resume and engineering expertise speaks for itself GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #27
My natural engineering mind tells me.... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #29
I highly recommend YOU leave it to engineers specializing in nuclear energy and fusion Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #30
But you are not an engineer, right? Yet you think your filtering of daddy's non-expert opinion is engineering wisdom Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #41
To clarify Metaphorical Jul 2024 #81
Nuclear fusion and nuclear fission are not the same things Sympthsical Jul 2024 #40
Are you from engineer loins too? Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2024 #84
No, spleen mitosis Sympthsical Jul 2024 #85
The Other Poster Is Accurate ProfessorGAC Jul 2024 #45
Nuclear industry covering up the waste dangers GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #52
Fusion Does Not ProfessorGAC Jul 2024 #68
Hindenburg... orthoclad Jul 2024 #71
I'd much rather have the helium, Disaffected Jul 2024 #9
Water is the least harmful. GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #25
Rather than yourself, repeating your interpretation of an inexpert opinion outside of your father's field. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #32
I'm going by what my engineer father taught me about nuclear power GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #36
You're misunderstanding your father's explanation Sympthsical Jul 2024 #42
You're wrong again GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #48
My father was a dock worker Sympthsical Jul 2024 #59
So. 1) You're a perfect student, 2) You're a nuclear engineer, 3) You're a nuclear physicist, or Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #44
Why are you assuming that I am not an engineer? Disaffected Jul 2024 #58
This lab is in Dane County. They are definitely engineers and scientists. AllyCat Jul 2024 #79
Hydrogen for combusting comes from fossil fuels and is very greenhouse gas heavy dem_4_lyfe Jul 2024 #21
Not all of it, and decreasing as time goes forward. . . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #46
Just to clarify asm128 Jul 2024 #60
Most H2 is fossil fuel derived now, but will be less in the future as green electricity is used to electrolyze H2O Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #62
Gotcha asm128 Jul 2024 #66
My father was a Tickle Jul 2024 #22
BTW, I love your forum name! GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #5
Unfortunately it also produces neutrons Diraven Jul 2024 #82
Nuclear waste is far less of a threat that green house gases dem_4_lyfe Jul 2024 #7
Please tell that to the people in Chernobyl and Fukushima. GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #11
How many people died in those two crises? arissa Jul 2024 #17
Thousands have died from Chernobyl GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #23
I'm still not clear about.... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #26
I've stated it numerous times GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #28
Post removed Post removed Jul 2024 #33
You continue to show your disrespect GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #35
So? A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #39
Tell us again how automotive expertise makes your father better than nuclear engineers and physicists. . . .nt Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #47
My father had aviation and automotive engineering work experience GoreWon2000 Jul 2024 #49
The name "Bernardo de La Paz" is Portuguese for... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #55
This message was self-deleted by its author Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #89
Read again. You are fantasizing what you want to see. I have written nothing in this thread about nuclear power Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2024 #64
Local accident vs. Global disaster dem_4_lyfe Jul 2024 #19
Actually land around chernobyl can be farmed Blue Full Moon Jul 2024 #88
It has much much less waste than nuclear fission. EdmondDantes Jul 2024 #18
Awesome republianmushroom Jul 2024 #4
Not a very big step. Disaffected Jul 2024 #8
Actually they have achieved producing more energy than consumed arissa Jul 2024 #12
Oh, now you've got me going... :) Disaffected Jul 2024 #63
Still 10 years away? edhopper Jul 2024 #38
It sounds like a good advancement to me sarisataka Jul 2024 #51
... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2024 #53
Stop. Please be nice. AllyCat Jul 2024 #80
The equipment used in this process will be needed to be replaced often as to the nature Tikki Jul 2024 #57
Hence the efforts into "aneutronic" fusion. Disaffected Jul 2024 #67
Yup, and take a look at ITER. Disaffected Jul 2024 #83
Y'know, as cranky as I've been the 24 or so hours Bettie Jul 2024 #61
The thing is that for decades, one after another hot potential fusion experiment MineralMan Jul 2024 #65
Sadly true. Disaffected Jul 2024 #69
No, they don't know what they're investing in. MineralMan Jul 2024 #70
Reminds me a little of the dot com craze... Disaffected Jul 2024 #72
Well, people did take advantage of that. MineralMan Jul 2024 #74
But the internet was real. MineralMan Jul 2024 #75
Wait, wait! Did you mis-post? Shouldn't this be about Kamala Harris???? nt LAS14 Jul 2024 #73
I pass by this lab several times a week. It is amazing this is happening so close! AllyCat Jul 2024 #76
Been worked on for a long time. Blue Full Moon Jul 2024 #86
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