General Discussion

sarisataka

(22,700 posts)

77. The purchase of a gun does not bring them closer to the brink

Mon Dec 3, 2012, 10:07 PM

Dec 2012

unless they are at risk, much like an alcoholic buying that bottle of booze.

I applaud your analogy, it is quite apt. Just as the bottle of booze cannot make you drink it a gun cannot make you use it. Some people buy booze to use irresponsibly, i.e. get drunk. Some buy guns to use irresponsibly- see youtube for examples. In both cases there is not intent to harm anyone.
There is a small percentage that will buy the booze intending to use it illegally, such as get drunk and drive, possibly injuring or killing someone.
Another small percentage acquires a gun for illegal purpose, to commit crime, mask their fears... they to may injure or kill another.

To buy a gun from a dealer you must have a background check, with several disqualifying categories. I would accept that requirement for private sales.
Booze- show you are over 21

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"Handguns...exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing.... [View all] Junkdrawer Dec 2012 OP

Fact, govt. is not obligated to protect any individual not in custody. Question. who do you expect jody Dec 2012 #1

I see you're not conflicted.... Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #2

I'm not conflicted at all. Please refute any statement I made in my post. nt jody Dec 2012 #3

Loathsome and disgusting,. pscot Dec 2012 #6

Please refute any statement I made. nt jody Dec 2012 #7

For one thing, there is no such thing as an "inalienable right" Orrex Dec 2012 #45

I don't refute any of your bs, I just hope you "accidentally" refute yourself, and it hurts. xtraxritical Dec 2012 #51

Are you unable to refute my statements? That seems the case with your ad hominem attacks. nt jody Dec 2012 #54

YOU refute the quote in the OP by Costas. Lex Dec 2012 #117

Do you assert that "Handguns" produce those results? What about the other things criminals jody Dec 2012 #124

Guns can exacerbate without having to refute any of your other BS. morningfog Dec 2012 #139

What facts I cited in #1 do you call BS? nt jody Dec 2012 #143

Your so-called "facts" are irrelevant and stupid to this discussion. Red herring, strawmen morningfog Dec 2012 #150

I did not say the statements you quote are facts. The facts I gave place the burden of proof on jody Dec 2012 #154

Again, this discussion is not about abolishing the right to guns. You are trying to make it that. morningfog Dec 2012 #156

You want to change the gun culture. What law do you propose to make that change? nt jody Dec 2012 #157

Your agenda is getting the best of you. morningfog Dec 2012 #159

You refuse to acknowledge the obvious. OP introduces gun culture and gun control but no one jody Dec 2012 #164

First of all, gun clinging rednecks should chill the fuck out and morningfog Dec 2012 #167

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!! sarisataka Dec 2012 #172

What an odd thing to say. beevul Dec 2012 #181

Look at movies, video games and popular music and you will answer your own question. morningfog Dec 2012 #195

Wow! So gun owners are "rednecks afraid of inner city black men."?? Ya Basta Dec 2012 #241

I didn't say all gun owners were. morningfog Dec 2012 #242

Non-sequitor. You are not a redneck. Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #244

do MrDiaz Dec 2012 #177

Same old talking points. A bunch or parrots you are. morningfog Dec 2012 #196

same old MrDiaz Dec 2012 #201

And where are their charts? I miss those charts! We usually get the same ones in every gun CTyankee Dec 2012 #215

guns =/= forks =/= pencils =/= cars & pretending that they do ought to disqualify one to own patrice Dec 2012 #260

On the other hand, what "baits" AlexSatan Dec 2012 #191

"which is all 99% of gun owners do" PavePusher Dec 2012 #208

Who said that? AlexSatan Dec 2012 #223

Argh, I completely misread your statement. PavePusher Dec 2012 #230

No prob AlexSatan Dec 2012 #245

30,000 dead Americans every year from handguns. Zoeisright Dec 2012 #171

National Center for Injury Prevention and Control reports Homicide Firearm 11,073 for 2010. jody Dec 2012 #176

link please? MrDiaz Dec 2012 #179

Here: Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #182

O I C MrDiaz Dec 2012 #186

Suicides should be included. morningfog Dec 2012 #197

duh G_j Dec 2012 #204

That's too easy... rwsanders Dec 2012 #50

Understand and that's your choice. nt jody Dec 2012 #52

I totally agree with you. Illinoischick Dec 2012 #9

How about making that statement to the Native Americans. Dont call me Shirley Dec 2012 #13

Please refute any statement I made. nt jody Dec 2012 #16

bullshit. The "inalienable" part is about LIFE. It's one of the first things mentioned pasto76 Dec 2012 #19

Please refute any statement I made. nt jody Dec 2012 #30

With all due respect. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #67

No, they really aren't. beevul Dec 2012 #183

Love how a plea for sanity always brings out the gun nuts ready to defend their stupid worship abelenkpe Dec 2012 #26

Please refute any statement I made. nt jody Dec 2012 #31

me too (nt) Tumbulu Dec 2012 #61

Wanting to take away Berserker Dec 2012 #83

"... and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety." from your thread. Whovian Dec 2012 #55

Please refute any statement I made. nt jody Dec 2012 #58

I just did. Happiness can be different things to different people. Whovian Dec 2012 #69

To me it is. nt jody Dec 2012 #93

Mine is to me. So that means we do what I say, right? jeff47 Dec 2012 #114

The unique thing about our government is our Constitution requires it to protect the unalienable jody Dec 2012 #120

Actually, it's not unique. jeff47 Dec 2012 #153

IMO it was unique in 1776. It's also the longest surviving government, Iceland is questionable, of jody Dec 2012 #155

There is no Right to murder innocent people, under any Amendment. n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #209

It means you each make your own decisions... Lightbulb_on Dec 2012 #144

The problem is your decisions do not just affect yourself. jeff47 Dec 2012 #152

This is the part of your post that is logically wrong (and factually challenged)... Sancho Dec 2012 #95

Interesting but LEOs choose handguns as do 8 million citizens who possess CCW. jody Dec 2012 #106

I know all about CCW...and it doesn't change the logical problem.... Sancho Dec 2012 #145

The right to keep and bear arms for self-defense is not limited to firearms. To begin, what federal jody Dec 2012 #151

It doesn't matter if control laws were state or federal... Sancho Dec 2012 #166

The laws you cite refer to dealers... Sancho Dec 2012 #170

No, the laws I cited are all federal laws that pertain to firearms. nt jody Dec 2012 #175

Firearm dealers and collectors...not every user, buyer or owner. Sancho Dec 2012 #203

With all due respect, no you do not. beevul Dec 2012 #185

That probably depends on your local state... Sancho Dec 2012 #205

Ownership vs public usage. beevul Dec 2012 #233

You have to show proof of insurance to register a car or trailer in Florida... Sancho Dec 2012 #240

One need not "register" a car, simply to own it. beevul Dec 2012 #246

Here, you cannot "own" a car unless you buy it or someone gives it to you... Sancho Dec 2012 #253

That may be true... beevul Dec 2012 #265

It's time to quit arguing with you... Sancho Dec 2012 #266

I thought we were discussing /shrug. beevul Dec 2012 #267

You can get lots of information from the link below... Sancho Dec 2012 #268

Do you contend that in this "different world" of the past AlexSatan Dec 2012 #192

Not one thing in your first paragraph illustrates any difference... PavePusher Dec 2012 #210

Why do you need to know about my personal property? Lightbulb_on Dec 2012 #146

If guns were "the best choice" wouldn't that mean THE most efficacious? Is that the fact? No. patrice Dec 2012 #109

Depends on circumstances. n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #211

Correct, ergo guns don't necessarily accomplish whatever it is that one assumes they patrice Dec 2012 #221

What defensive tools would not be "an oversimplified 'answer'"? PavePusher Dec 2012 #228

I was thinking of defensive tools that recognize the causes of danger, before it's too late. patrice Dec 2012 #229

I really don't understand what you are trying to say. PavePusher Dec 2012 #232

Are you telling me that people with guns don't kill others for anything but self defense? wow. nt patrice Dec 2012 #234

Again you are inventing things I did not say. n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #249

Please quote directly what part(s) you can't understand & I will clarify. Thanks. nt patrice Dec 2012 #237

What, pray tell, is "natural" about the ability to hurl multiple small pieces of metal at wildly patrice Dec 2012 #116

Using tools is a natural ability of Homo Sapiens. PavePusher Dec 2012 #212

False equivalence. There are significant qualitative differences between tools, otherwise we'd all patrice Dec 2012 #220

Non sequiteur. PavePusher Dec 2012 #225

So a knife is the same thing as an armed drone and, therefore, you have a "right" to use either patrice Dec 2012 #226

I didn't say anything like that. PavePusher Dec 2012 #231

You said that using tools is a natural ability of homo sapiens and, by implication, that's some kind patrice Dec 2012 #236

The can both be used for constructive or destructive purposes. PavePusher Dec 2012 #248

It's not a non sequiteur (sic) just because you fail to see the connection, in the same manner that patrice Dec 2012 #227

You assume that there is one and ONLY one way to defend life, liberty, property etc. & that way patrice Dec 2012 #122

Ummm, he said no such things. n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #213

How is saying handguns are the best choice not also saying one should do nothing less than the best patrice Dec 2012 #239

First you claimed he said ONLY choice, which was not true. PavePusher Dec 2012 #251

Tell me why the best choice would not be also the ONLY choice when it comes to "defense". nt patrice Dec 2012 #255

Because we have free will, and some people come to different results than others... PavePusher Dec 2012 #257

Free will? Let's not go there, rightnow, suffice it to say that I disagree with anyone who disputes patrice Dec 2012 #261

There are no guarantees. PavePusher Dec 2012 #262

Huh? Are you guaranteeing that there are no guarantees? & If you are defending yourself, why patrice Dec 2012 #263

Sorry! I couldn't resist that. I actually agree with you. There are only probabilities. nt patrice Dec 2012 #264

Are you saying that BECAUSE police use guns, we should too, since police pose a threat to us? patrice Dec 2012 #127

Well yes, patently, they can be a threat to innocent people. PavePusher Dec 2012 #214

So, just how much danger are all of us in, from police & under what circumstances? patrice Dec 2012 #243

If the abuses become common/strong enough, we are equipped to fight back. PavePusher Dec 2012 #252

Or - are you saying that we face the same threats that police do, so we should have guns too? patrice Dec 2012 #128

Yes, we face the same threats. PavePusher Dec 2012 #216

We, ALL of us, live in high probability of direct assault multiple times a day, just like patrice Dec 2012 #235

No, I have not said what you claim I said. n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #247

You are defending #1 and that's what #1 said. nt patrice Dec 2012 #256

another fact green for victory Dec 2012 #160

Well said, and definitely food for thought. n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #217

Ah! something we agree upon & which also definitely falls in the category of thinking about patrice Dec 2012 #238

I don't know anyone who recommends anything different. n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #250

+100. Image at bottom of your post says it all. nt Skip Intro Dec 2012 #162

Very close sarisataka Dec 2012 #4

People chose to bring themselves closer to the brink by purchasing the gun.... Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #5

Yes, that is true. People who know they are close to the brink shouldn't buy guns. slackmaster Dec 2012 #21

Good point nt Tumbulu Dec 2012 #62

The purchase of a gun does not bring them closer to the brink sarisataka Dec 2012 #77

No always AlexSatan Dec 2012 #193

It's true. DanTex Dec 2012 #8

Please cite a credible study that supports your assertion. nt jody Dec 2012 #12

The Harvard School of Public Health is a good starting point. DanTex Dec 2012 #15

That study is not original research. Please cite a credible study. nt jody Dec 2012 #20

That's because it is a survey paper. There are about 100 citations at the end of it, which DanTex Dec 2012 #25

You know they'll never read anything that goes against their religion. nt abelenkpe Dec 2012 #27

As is being illustrated in this very thread. Squinch Dec 2012 #44

#8 you said "that guns make people less safe rather than more safe". Prove it. nt jody Dec 2012 #29

Guns do make people less safe. If you are intent on ignoring the evidence, that's your choice. DanTex Dec 2012 #36

I will not ignore any credible study you cite. Problem is you have not yet done so. nt jody Dec 2012 #40

Of course, you will simply label any study that contradicts your dogma as "not credible". DanTex Dec 2012 #41

Please cite any post in which I said a "study . . . [was] 'not credible'" without disputing the jody Dec 2012 #48

This is getting a little silly. DanTex Dec 2012 #57

No, the silly thing is you being unable to cite a credible study. nt jody Dec 2012 #60

Perhaps your DU account has been hacked? Tumbulu Dec 2012 #68

Yes, it is. The poster is far too transparent and obvious to be taken seriously. morningfog Dec 2012 #140

Evidence: 100% of all people killed by guns were killed by guns. morningfog Dec 2012 #136

"hands of those who pulled the trigger" of course were innocent bystanders when that handgun killed jody Dec 2012 #142

You are right, no one is shot by accident. morningfog Dec 2012 #147

But what about self defense? alp227 Dec 2012 #148

One of many safeinOhio Dec 2012 #63

Man accidentally kills himself Berserker Dec 2012 #87

Only I can't safeinOhio Dec 2012 #103

Kind of hard to defend your home with the the family car as well. LAGC Dec 2012 #121

In 63 years old and I have never needed to use safeinOhio Dec 2012 #174

Are you a computer generated responder? Tumbulu Dec 2012 #66

I agree--that was my initial impression--robotic! corneliamcgillicutty Dec 2012 #78

Why don't you illuminate those who read this thread by providing facts. You can start by jody Dec 2012 #111

The fact is that if you are a real person Tumbulu Dec 2012 #135

Yet as a society we have never been safer hack89 Dec 2012 #92

Compared to Canada, UK, Germany, etc. we have far more homicide. DanTex Dec 2012 #98

So the huge upswing in gun purchases are all repeat buyers? Got it. nt hack89 Dec 2012 #102

Here's GSS data on gun ownership rates: DanTex Dec 2012 #108

And older white males are not a particualary violent segment of society hack89 Dec 2012 #113

You keep changing the subject every time you are proven wrong. And now you have ceased making DanTex Dec 2012 #115

And yet we have never been safer hack89 Dec 2012 #178

So show me how GSS surveyed felons hack89 Dec 2012 #190

My town is just as safe as Canada, UK or Germany hack89 Dec 2012 #189

The righties were going nuts today on the local talk show, doc03 Dec 2012 #10

I'm a lefty Berserker Dec 2012 #89

Whatever you think I can't see where someone should be fired for doc03 Dec 2012 #94

Freedom of speech = government can't prosecute speech, but employers may regulate workers' speech. alp227 Dec 2012 #149

There is a lot of truth in what he said and voicing his opinion doc03 Dec 2012 #158

Well, I'd say that psychos will find any way to harm another person, alp227 Dec 2012 #161

Believe me those two that shot the 17 year old boy down in doc03 Dec 2012 #169

What a level headed guy, Jason Whitlock. He needs to keep writing, being read Dont call me Shirley Dec 2012 #11

I am not sure your post humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #14

Here here oberle Dec 2012 #18

Do you believe Democrat Obama lied when he promised "I will not take your shotgun away, I won't take jody Dec 2012 #56

And more evidence of hacking- using Democrat Tumbulu Dec 2012 #72

Alert this or something? snort Dec 2012 #76

well I am not sure how to alert on a poster Tumbulu Dec 2012 #85

Do you believe Democrat Obama's statement was a lie as I asked? nt jody Dec 2012 #96

has to be computer generated....what to do is the question nt Tumbulu Dec 2012 #131

Have a blissful evening and goodbye. nt jody Dec 2012 #134

Huh? Sez who? n/t PavePusher Dec 2012 #218

The President humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #79

Do you have a quote where Obama evolved by saying in essence "I will take your shotgun away, I will jody Dec 2012 #100

Same can be said about a car, knife, hammer, chainsaw etc Illinoischick Dec 2012 #64

Because ... Straw Man Dec 2012 #75

That wasn't my point humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #82

That WAS your point. Straw Man Dec 2012 #173

YUP there here Berserker Dec 2012 #91

40 percent of Dems own guns hack89 Dec 2012 #105

What?!?! No-one was ever murdered before the advent of guns? PavePusher Dec 2012 #219

I'm in agreement with much of Mr. Whitlock's commentary, however I see it as the culture of violence slackmaster Dec 2012 #17

good point maindawg Dec 2012 #28

If you didn't know he was a football player, he would have been the last person you expected. bluedigger Dec 2012 #53

I didn't know much about him. That is very, no obvious sign of a typical "troubled" youth. slackmaster Dec 2012 #59

If he had stayed in West Babylon HockeyMom Dec 2012 #65

West Babylon is Suffolk County. Straw Man Dec 2012 #84

He did not Berserker Dec 2012 #101

My handgun certainly "exacerbates" my flaws. bvar22 Dec 2012 #22

Why would one need to shoot someone from that distance? Hoyt Dec 2012 #42

Odd. bvar22 Dec 2012 #49

I'm against toting in public, shooting someone running away with a CD player, Hoyt Dec 2012 #71

Who is talking about shooting people? hack89 Dec 2012 #97

Except in highly unlikely situations? Berserker Dec 2012 #107

I practice at 30 yards with handguns because... bvar22 Dec 2012 #123

Enjoy your guns. So you tote in "urbs or sub-urbs?" Hoyt Dec 2012 #126

Man, I don't even GO to the Urbs or SubUrbs anymore. bvar22 Dec 2012 #130

Costas wasnt advocating gun control maindawg Dec 2012 #23

On this subject, sanity is too much to request. There is just no reasoning. Squinch Dec 2012 #46

You only need a license to operate a vehicle on a public road. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #70

uh... beevul Dec 2012 #188

This Is An Absolute Fabulous Message 1ProudAtheist Dec 2012 #24

+++1 patrice Dec 2012 #35

RE: nuclear weapons. The "Truman needs the test before he confronts Stalin." story tells the tale.. Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #39

Thanks. I wonder how many know that this was written and earlier published by someone else. elleng Dec 2012 #32

In whatever tragic situation, all other factors being the same, it's the presence of a gun that patrice Dec 2012 #33

+1000 OrwellwasRight Dec 2012 #81

And the gun worshipers are crucifying him for his plea for sanity. baldguy Dec 2012 #34

Hollywood is partly to blame . . . Utopian Leftist Dec 2012 #37

So true and this has been my gripe for a very long time Tumbulu Dec 2012 #73

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2012 #38

We need a campaign to change attitudes about guns, just like cigarettes, Hoyt Dec 2012 #43

The late-great Paul Newman did one in a series for a group called Cease Fire..... Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #47

I will have to check those out. Thanks. Hoyt Dec 2012 #80

Good idea! nt Tumbulu Dec 2012 #74

but but but... humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #86

I swear gun culture makes absurd arguments. Hoyt Dec 2012 #118

Football is one of the most violent sports in the world. That man was MADE of violence. The gun is rDigital Dec 2012 #88

Actually, from growing up with gun culture, I'd say the gun culture encourages the opposite. ancianita Dec 2012 #90

Alcohol does the same but the cost to society is much greater. nt hack89 Dec 2012 #99

Well hand guns are made for killin' They ain't no good for nothin' else SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #104

My hand gun Berserker Dec 2012 #110

Bwhahahahahahaha! SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #202

You watch too many bad movies or too much bad TV. PavePusher Dec 2012 #222

OK, I guess this is where I say I don't agree with gun control because... Taverner Dec 2012 #112

It does work. nt Lex Dec 2012 #119

Link Please Berserker Dec 2012 #125

Your little gif Lex Dec 2012 #129

AWWWW gun Worshippers Berserker Dec 2012 #132

I don't worship my guns either. bvar22 Dec 2012 #137

Not true. It's say, "Fuck economic & social justice" + say, "Guns!" = panic about gun ownership. patrice Dec 2012 #133

And it is guns that enables some people to say, "Fuck economic & social justice." nt patrice Dec 2012 #138

And those people definitely are not necessarily in law enforcement at Fed or state level as patrice Dec 2012 #141

"exacerbate our...tempt us...bait us" flvegan Dec 2012 #163

Does, or has, Bob Costas legally carried a concealed handgun? krispos42 Dec 2012 #165

One doesn't need to engage in aberrant behavior to recognize aberrance DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #199

And, like Costas, you have zero credibility on this issue. n/t krispos42 Dec 2012 #224

Guns simply aren't the problem. Moral decay is the problem. Skip Intro Dec 2012 #168

Gun CULTURE. Guns have become a part of the Gangsta lifestyle one the one hand.... Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #180

What about those of us who are neither gangsters or Tea baggers? hack89 Dec 2012 #194

Here: Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #206

Excellent post. Thanks. nt hack89 Dec 2012 #207

That is to say, the vast, overwhelming majority of gun owners. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #258

Whitlock correct -- "But we won�t." aikoaiko Dec 2012 #184

Guns in the home don't make one safer duhneece Dec 2012 #187

our media and our culture don't like to have the hard conversations liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #198

Thank you for getting the point of the OP Junkdrawer Dec 2012 #200

I find it amazing that no one on TV is addressing the domestic violence part of the story.. rainlillie Dec 2012 #254

Sports stars are excused for their little foibles JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2012 #259