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Vox Populi

(40 posts)
13. it's a dumb idea
Tue Dec 4, 2012, 06:55 PM
Dec 2012

This idea is not new - it's been tried before and it failed. Eliot Spitzer justs proves how ill-informed he is on how financial markets work.
If this tax is implemented as proposed, the immediate result will be a massive and permanent loss of transaction volume on US stock and commodities exchanges resulting in higher volatility because of fewer orders at each price. Trading will simply move to a more favorable location: UK, Sydney, Singapore, for example. The only people who will suffer because of this tax are people like you: small investors and people invested in mutual funds. Goldman Sachs won't pay the tax - they are exchange members and will be exempt. It is Goldman and other major banks who do the bulk of HFT transactions because they are the only ones for whom the frictional costs of trading are low enough to profit from trades lasting less than a couple of seconds.

The expected revenue from an FTT is ridiculous - based on assumptions that the transaction volume will not be substantially reduced, which is just flat-out wrong. If trading does not move abroad instantly, the guarnteed resultis that GSand others will simply invent a proxy for stock and commodity trades that mimic the underlying contracts but are themselves exempt from the FTT. This is what happened in UK - UK imposes a stamp duty on every stock transaction - except 70% of transactions are exempt - only the small investor pays them. So what do people in UK do if they wish to daytrade stocks? They buy CFD's (Contracts for difference) which are essentially just bets placed with a bookmaker and as there is no underlying asset transfer they are exempt from stamp duty.

I am sympathetic to the idea of making the bankers pay, but this FTT is not the right approach. It would be more palatable and would have the intended effect of reducing HFT if the transaction itself were assessed the fee as a flat amount (e.g. $0.001 per share or $0.10 per contract plus a fee for each order cancelled ) rather than being based on the underlying value of the asset. In this way only high volume traders would be impacted by the fee, while the small investor would barely notice.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Have to run, but K&R and more later, I hope. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #1
It will help to stabilize and normalize the market. joeunderdog Dec 2012 #2
I like your enthusiasm but the ball is in our court. It's Wall Street that are saying rhett o rick Dec 2012 #5
Nailed it. russspeakeasy Dec 2012 #12
The market is stable over the long term. cbdo2007 Dec 2012 #37
This just absolutely needs to be done. And I invest in stocks. But it's just self evident. Squinch Dec 2012 #3
Wonder if the could do it via a state or local (NY) sales tax? LeftInTX Dec 2012 #4
Many trades are done automatically adieu Dec 2012 #11
So smart libodem Dec 2012 #6
I can't rec this enough dreamnightwind Dec 2012 #7
LMSP kicking...n/t littlemissmartypants Dec 2012 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author eugene jones Dec 2012 #10
it's a dumb idea Vox Populi Dec 2012 #13
"Eliot Spitzer ill-informed on financial markets" ???? Dude, what are you smoking? 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #16
huh? Vox Populi Dec 2012 #20
Fortunately, your opening assertion about Spitzer being "ill-informed" 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #22
Vox Populi pwned. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #29
**snap** I forgot to say "welcome to DU" 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #30
here's why it's a dumb idea Vox Populi Dec 2012 #34
I trust Mr. Spitzer's expertise on this subject far more than I do yours 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #64
Planned enforcement of the Stamp Act in America was met with a shrug. ieoeja Dec 2012 #45
The flat tax sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #23
Utterly absurd. Not one of your statements is even remotely true. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #32
you sound like a low-information teabagger Vox Populi Dec 2012 #35
Was there something confusing about "Not one of your statements is even remotely true"? Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #56
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #58
You post is there for all to see and I quoted it directly. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #61
Your speculations are based on unsupported theory. bvar22 Dec 2012 #36
here's some facts Vox Populi Dec 2012 #38
Thank You for your Return Address!!!! bvar22 Dec 2012 #39
no, you don't Vox Populi Dec 2012 #40
Yes I do. Fair Game! bvar22 Dec 2012 #41
you don't make sense Vox Populi Dec 2012 #42
Admittedly, I was in error. bvar22 Dec 2012 #43
lol - are you some kind of conspiracy nut? Vox Populi Dec 2012 #44
2 Strawman Logical Fallacies in one post! bvar22 Dec 2012 #46
whatever Vox Populi Dec 2012 #47
You're "done" OK, bvar22 Dec 2012 #50
I agree with Vox Populi on his proposals. I also agree that the general attitude displayed AikidoSoul Dec 2012 #48
+1 Squinch Dec 2012 #52
thanks man Vox Populi Dec 2012 #54
Do you have any idea how many degrees and decades of experience you are poo-pooing Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #62
But if it were applied as described in the article, a fee for every $100 Squinch Dec 2012 #51
let me clarify Vox Populi Dec 2012 #55
So you are saying that it would be better to apply a fee on # of shares transacted than Squinch Dec 2012 #57
no - just that it has more chance of working Vox Populi Dec 2012 #59
Thanks! That does improve my understanding of this. And again, welcome. Squinch Dec 2012 #60
Bottomline ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #14
YES!!! This should be self-evident and obvious to anyone 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #15
Several Industrialized nations have such a tax; it's not hard to figure out. byeya Dec 2012 #17
I'd actually be more in favor of a tax hike on capital gains. 25% tax rate on gains over $100,000. Selatius Dec 2012 #18
No one is suggesting going back to previous years, when there was a difference in the tax owed.... northoftheborder Dec 2012 #24
I agree with you that rewarding longer term investments is a good idea AikidoSoul Dec 2012 #49
The market needs both to maintain liquidity, in my opinion. However... Selatius Dec 2012 #53
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2012 #19
Neat and simple idea, Grey Dec 2012 #21
First heard about this from some nice nurses, a short time back. Octafish Dec 2012 #25
K+R limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #26
Maybe he good get Sen. Warren to sponsor this and dae Dec 2012 #27
A tax on financial transactions is self-evident PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #28
Even a .25% across-the-board federal transaction tax would be sufficient. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #31
K&R. I wrote to my congresspeople saying that until this has been tried there is no reason at all to Overseas Dec 2012 #33
Meanwhile in Europe: EU Moves Ahead With Transaction Tax in Rejecting U.K. Changes pampango Dec 2012 #63
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