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Vox Populi

(40 posts)
34. here's why it's a dumb idea
Wed Dec 5, 2012, 11:59 AM
Dec 2012

First, in your wikipedia cut/paste, you bolded sections that are irrelevant. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make, but the fact is that stamp duty is still applied to stock transactions in UK. The line you missed says: "Apart from the transfers of shares and securites..."

The proposed financial transaction tax, while it may not be called a Stamp Duty, is exactly the same as that applied in England. It is a tax based on the value of the asset. As I said, this will not work. You asked why Goldman would be exempt: because they are market makers - as such they have an obligation to make a market. The market simply would not operate if market makers were obliged to pay the tax. They would necessarily be exempt. There are financial products that would also be necessarily exempt, e.g. forex transactions. These would be exempt because imposing a tax on a forex transaction would be ian illegal imposition of tax on a person outside of the US tax jurisdiction - ie. the foreign counterparty. This loophole would quickly be exploited. In a similar way to UK's invention of the CFD as a non-asset-based proxy for stock transactions, how long do you think it would take for Goldman to create a synthetic currency product that would be exempt from the tax and would mirror the movement of the S&P 500, for example? Not long at all. This type of innovation and/or the relocation of trading overseas is why the estaimtaes of potential revenue from this tax are ridiculously overstated.

I put forward a workable alternatve that achieves the desired goal of restricting the high-frequency trading that now dominates the market in index futures and is only possible as a strategy by the large banks that the tax is meant to punish.. Instead of basing the fee or tax on the value of the underlying asset, tax the transaction itself. This would make HFT less profitable because of the additional frictional cost while not imposing the burden on small investors - only large frequent traders would feel the impact and this solution would not have the effect of encouraging trading to simply move to a more favorable overseas location. Market makers would still be exempt from this fee in their role as market makers but the fee should be applied to their proprietary trading operations.
There seems to be an unwholesome view that the stock market is inherently evil - it is not. What is wrong is that the large banks and hedge fnds with colocated servers have an unfair advantage over all other traders by receiving the quote and order book information ahead of anyone else. It's important to realize that what they are doing is not simple arbitrage (which is in itself a valuable function that corrects mispricing) but is cheating - they take advantage of order imbalances before they are visible to other market participants.
A transaction fee would reduce the profitablity of this HFT strategy perhaps making it untenable - this is the desirable result.

I have no idea why you mentioned a Federal Real estate Transfer Tax - that has nothing at all to do with my comments.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Have to run, but K&R and more later, I hope. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #1
It will help to stabilize and normalize the market. joeunderdog Dec 2012 #2
I like your enthusiasm but the ball is in our court. It's Wall Street that are saying rhett o rick Dec 2012 #5
Nailed it. russspeakeasy Dec 2012 #12
The market is stable over the long term. cbdo2007 Dec 2012 #37
This just absolutely needs to be done. And I invest in stocks. But it's just self evident. Squinch Dec 2012 #3
Wonder if the could do it via a state or local (NY) sales tax? LeftInTX Dec 2012 #4
Many trades are done automatically adieu Dec 2012 #11
So smart libodem Dec 2012 #6
I can't rec this enough dreamnightwind Dec 2012 #7
LMSP kicking...n/t littlemissmartypants Dec 2012 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author eugene jones Dec 2012 #10
it's a dumb idea Vox Populi Dec 2012 #13
"Eliot Spitzer ill-informed on financial markets" ???? Dude, what are you smoking? 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #16
huh? Vox Populi Dec 2012 #20
Fortunately, your opening assertion about Spitzer being "ill-informed" 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #22
Vox Populi pwned. Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #29
**snap** I forgot to say "welcome to DU" 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #30
here's why it's a dumb idea Vox Populi Dec 2012 #34
I trust Mr. Spitzer's expertise on this subject far more than I do yours 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #64
Planned enforcement of the Stamp Act in America was met with a shrug. ieoeja Dec 2012 #45
The flat tax sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #23
Utterly absurd. Not one of your statements is even remotely true. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #32
you sound like a low-information teabagger Vox Populi Dec 2012 #35
Was there something confusing about "Not one of your statements is even remotely true"? Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #56
Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #58
You post is there for all to see and I quoted it directly. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #61
Your speculations are based on unsupported theory. bvar22 Dec 2012 #36
here's some facts Vox Populi Dec 2012 #38
Thank You for your Return Address!!!! bvar22 Dec 2012 #39
no, you don't Vox Populi Dec 2012 #40
Yes I do. Fair Game! bvar22 Dec 2012 #41
you don't make sense Vox Populi Dec 2012 #42
Admittedly, I was in error. bvar22 Dec 2012 #43
lol - are you some kind of conspiracy nut? Vox Populi Dec 2012 #44
2 Strawman Logical Fallacies in one post! bvar22 Dec 2012 #46
whatever Vox Populi Dec 2012 #47
You're "done" OK, bvar22 Dec 2012 #50
I agree with Vox Populi on his proposals. I also agree that the general attitude displayed AikidoSoul Dec 2012 #48
+1 Squinch Dec 2012 #52
thanks man Vox Populi Dec 2012 #54
Do you have any idea how many degrees and decades of experience you are poo-pooing Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #62
But if it were applied as described in the article, a fee for every $100 Squinch Dec 2012 #51
let me clarify Vox Populi Dec 2012 #55
So you are saying that it would be better to apply a fee on # of shares transacted than Squinch Dec 2012 #57
no - just that it has more chance of working Vox Populi Dec 2012 #59
Thanks! That does improve my understanding of this. And again, welcome. Squinch Dec 2012 #60
Bottomline ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #14
YES!!! This should be self-evident and obvious to anyone 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #15
Several Industrialized nations have such a tax; it's not hard to figure out. byeya Dec 2012 #17
I'd actually be more in favor of a tax hike on capital gains. 25% tax rate on gains over $100,000. Selatius Dec 2012 #18
No one is suggesting going back to previous years, when there was a difference in the tax owed.... northoftheborder Dec 2012 #24
I agree with you that rewarding longer term investments is a good idea AikidoSoul Dec 2012 #49
The market needs both to maintain liquidity, in my opinion. However... Selatius Dec 2012 #53
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2012 #19
Neat and simple idea, Grey Dec 2012 #21
First heard about this from some nice nurses, a short time back. Octafish Dec 2012 #25
K+R limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #26
Maybe he good get Sen. Warren to sponsor this and dae Dec 2012 #27
A tax on financial transactions is self-evident PufPuf23 Dec 2012 #28
Even a .25% across-the-board federal transaction tax would be sufficient. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #31
K&R. I wrote to my congresspeople saying that until this has been tried there is no reason at all to Overseas Dec 2012 #33
Meanwhile in Europe: EU Moves Ahead With Transaction Tax in Rejecting U.K. Changes pampango Dec 2012 #63
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