General Discussion

sarisataka

(22,695 posts)

184. Let's play devil's advocate...

Mon Aug 26, 2024, 11:42 AM

Aug 2024

what does Ukraine bring to the table except a possible WW3?

Even before the invasion, Ukraine was not a significant US trade partner. We have a much larger trade with Israel. The US does not need Ukraine as a buffer between Russia and NATO. Belarus is essentially an extension of Russia so there is already a direct path to invade.

Sometimes you choose and support an ally because it is the right thing to do, not because it is profitable. For example when a foe wants to utterly destroy your ally.

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MarineCombatEngineer yagotme EX500rider

271 replies

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Should the US stop funding Israel? [View all] soandso Aug 2024 OP

No TheProle Aug 2024 #1

We have no willing negotiating partner on either side. Warmonger Netanyahu... brush Aug 2024 #227

Well said soandso Sep 2024 #232

They're not really fighting over gods, they're fighting over us. We should refuse them all. lindysalsagal Sep 2024 #243

Agreed, Israel is a convenient proxy Amishman Sep 2024 #235

Yes. Trueblue1968 Sep 2024 #253

Should the US stop funding Israel Passionate Dem Aug 2024 #2

Absolutelyfuckingnot, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2024 #3

Hold up! soandso Aug 2024 #4

It is BS actually...I think you forgot Hamas attacked Israel. Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #7

And Hizbollah was planning a major attack against Israel and Israel pre-empted the attack, MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2024 #8

I'm not talking about the latest events soandso Aug 2024 #12

And I answered it. MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2024 #16

With respect, the Abortion question is not moot just because the SCROTUS has ruled. dickthegrouch Aug 2024 #55

Every conversation on this site is 'moot', since they appear on some obscure website Jack Valentino Aug 2024 #113

.... MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2024 #126

It is not moot at all. HUAJIAO Aug 2024 #203

So show me where I said people aren't allowed to discuss it. MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2024 #218

double no... Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #36

Recent actions by Hamas is what is dictating Israel's current and longer response. yagotme Aug 2024 #174

I agree that Hamas instigated this soandso Aug 2024 #200

These groups often have as their rallying cry, "Death to America!" yagotme Aug 2024 #220

If the US wasn't in the middle east soandso Aug 2024 #224

So, we need to "get out" of the Middle East? yagotme Aug 2024 #230

Yes, the US needs to get out soandso Sep 2024 #231

Some of those countries hate us, just because of who/what we are. yagotme Sep 2024 #236

That sounds awfully "they hate us for freedoms" soandso Sep 2024 #254

Freedom of religion, yes. yagotme Sep 2024 #258

And then the refrain would be that the attack was allowed to happen. TheKentuckian Aug 2024 #180

OH, the "Bush Doctrine". That always works out so well krawhitham Aug 2024 #181

You don't think that Israel has the right to launch a pre-emptive attack against a sworn enemy MarineCombatEngineer Aug 2024 #192

I didn't forget anything soandso Aug 2024 #10

The big picture is no...Israel has the right to defend themselves...I think Hamas is making sure to cause as much Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #38

This is not so simple.. the 'feud' goes back thousands of years. HUAJIAO Aug 2024 #202

Yes. Sky Jewels Aug 2024 #5

No I don't. Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #6

Should the US stop supporting Ukraine? NATO? Swede Aug 2024 #9

Beyond the scope of this thread soandso Aug 2024 #14

So we only support some of our allies? Swede Aug 2024 #23

The US is a party to the NATO treaty soandso Aug 2024 #27

Some good info here. Basso8vb Aug 2024 #226

Israel is the aggressor, Ukraine is not onandup Aug 2024 #114

??? sarisataka Aug 2024 #135

Gazans crossed the border and murdered a bunch of kids at a concert and old folks in their houses. Swede Aug 2024 #139

Ukraine recently attacked into Russia. yagotme Aug 2024 #171

Israel and Russia are aggressors in the broader sense onandup Aug 2024 #206

Gaza pretty much had sovereignty, had they chosen to exercise it properly. yagotme Aug 2024 #221

At what point did Gaza have sovereignty? onandup Aug 2024 #223

(sigh) Here you go: yagotme Aug 2024 #229

Israel has blockaded Gaza for 17 years onandup Sep 2024 #233

So, what is the reason that they were blockaded? yagotme Sep 2024 #237

To impoverish and antagonize the population onandup Sep 2024 #239

You don't think suicide bombings and assaults on schools had anything to do with it? yagotme Sep 2024 #241

Israel blocks entry or exit by air and sea onandup Sep 2024 #245

You missed the main question: yagotme Sep 2024 #259

It was built when Hamas took control onandup Sep 2024 #263

And here I thought that the "wall" was for an "open air prison". yagotme Sep 2024 #264

You thought correctly - they have created an open air prison onandup Sep 2024 #265

It is a lack of agency, very common in the area sarisataka Sep 2024 #266

"Israel has blockaded Gaza for 17 years" Israel did not control the Gaza/Egypt border for 17 years EX500rider Sep 2024 #247

Israel is the aggressor? MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #234

Netanyahu is Trump, the same liar and cheater and fraud and is keeping this going for his own benefit. lark Aug 2024 #187

Not the same TheFarseer Aug 2024 #31

If we don't fund Israel Hamas is NOT who they have to worry about. edisdead Aug 2024 #81

If they keep up the low key genocide TheFarseer Aug 2024 #110

What is a "low key genocide"? sheshe2 Aug 2024 #160

The occupied west bank is being steadily commandeered by fanatical right-wing settlers. maxsolomon Aug 2024 #185

No edisdead Aug 2024 #82

We slowly gave Ukraine older F16s, while orthoclad Aug 2024 #172

YES! orthoclad Aug 2024 #11

Yes - and use that money for health care for all womanofthehills Aug 2024 #13

Right that is so not happening. And the idea that we should abandon an ally for the reasons you cite. Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #40

Allies normally bring something to the table, that is Israel bringing except a possible WWIII krawhitham Aug 2024 #179

Let's play devil's advocate... sarisataka Aug 2024 #184

Thanks for your post. He fact that Israeli's have universal health care, we don't and we subsidize them slays me. mjvpi Aug 2024 #136

These 'kids' are noticing all these videos? sheshe2 Aug 2024 #162

"The headless babies and burnt to a crisp babies are increasing onTwitter." What dark corners of X do you hang out in? EX500rider Sep 2024 #248

No. Danmel Aug 2024 #15

Israel's right exist is not the question soandso Aug 2024 #22

Israel has the entire Islamic nations against them and would not exist without our help. It is also in our Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #43

Exactly Danmel Aug 2024 #50

This started thousands of years ago... HUAJIAO Aug 2024 #205

This is a divisive question. pwb Aug 2024 #17

What assumptions did I make? soandso Aug 2024 #19

Should the civilized world have ceased trade with the USA when Trump took the Oval? DFW Aug 2024 #18

Should the US abandon Israel to the terrorists sarisataka Aug 2024 #20

Is not funding and arming Israel soandso Aug 2024 #25

We have seen the waves of rockets and missiles that their enemies are willing to launch at Israel sarisataka Aug 2024 #28

Okay, that's a fair point soandso Aug 2024 #30

It appears it is a joint effort sarisataka Aug 2024 #39

Thanks for that info soandso Aug 2024 #52

Not at all...It is not. Israel is not a Terrorist. It is a country who's people were viciously attacked by Hamas. Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #44

I think the question was soandso Aug 2024 #46

What is the revenge ratio that you see as adequate? 50 Palestinian deaths for each Israeli? 60-1? 100-1? mjvpi Aug 2024 #138

"Revenge rate?" You Do know why Israel is attacking Hamas, right? yagotme Aug 2024 #173

Comparing WW2 and oct 7th is a bad argument. Eko Aug 2024 #213

I believe you misunderstand the gist of my post. yagotme Aug 2024 #222

I understood the gist of your post. Eko Aug 2024 #225

What is the revenge ratio that will make you happy. 50 to 1? 80 to 1? 100 to 1? mjvpi Aug 2024 #140

Why help terrorists hiding beneath women's skirts and baby diapers? Ponietz Aug 2024 #21

Terrorists should not ever be helped, imo soandso Aug 2024 #24

No, we should not. Israel must rule themselves. I believe BiBi's days are numbered. He will go to prison. Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #45

Perhaps a better question H2O Man Aug 2024 #26

That last bit is complicated soandso Aug 2024 #35

No, Israel did not start this and Hamas must not be rewarded in any way. Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #47

Hamas started this round. atreides1 Aug 2024 #84

A thought for you to ponder... yagotme Aug 2024 #175

Yes LiberaBlueDem Aug 2024 #29

If we stop funding Israel, they'd get it from somewhere else. Angleae Aug 2024 #32

China would be willing to support Israel? soandso Aug 2024 #33

I don't think that was the meaning... Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #49

That's why I asked soandso Aug 2024 #53

No. nt LexVegas Aug 2024 #34

Should the US stop funding any of its allies? Beastly Boy Aug 2024 #37

Those are all good questions soandso Aug 2024 #54

Ukraine has been a contentious issue, and it directly affects US politics. Beastly Boy Aug 2024 #92

Are you seeing any protests soandso Aug 2024 #100

No. And that adds to my suspicion. Beastly Boy Aug 2024 #130

Meaning what soandso Aug 2024 #141

Absolutely, in terms of military funding. Fuck BiBi and the RW religio-fascist nutters who are his base. Celerity Aug 2024 #41

Bingo. Demand to know his end game. In the eyes of the ICC he is a war criminal. mjvpi Aug 2024 #142

Yes. It's the only way to pressure Israel and bring hostages back. Nanjeanne Aug 2024 #42

Giving Hamas what they want makes more hostage taking and conflict likely...so a big no. Hamas gets nothing. Demsrule86 Aug 2024 #51

No DeepWinter Aug 2024 #48

It's not possible, practical or moral for the US to stop funding Israel, given our role in its creation as a state. lees1975 Aug 2024 #56

That was a good bit of history FullySupportDems Aug 2024 #115

That's a good question. lees1975 Aug 2024 #132

Thank you very much FullySupportDems Aug 2024 #150

No. The only ones suggesting that would like to see Israel destroyed JohnSJ Aug 2024 #57

Yes, absolutely. buzzycrumbhunger Aug 2024 #58

Agree. It sickens me that Sky Jewels Aug 2024 #61

"Who lived there first..." yagotme Aug 2024 #176

I'm thinking of this... buzzycrumbhunger Sep 2024 #270

Why are we stopping in 1946? nt yagotme Sep 2024 #271

No mcar Aug 2024 #59

Yes stop funding until Bibi N steps down and there is sane leadership we can return to funding them kimbutgar Aug 2024 #60

What do you think would be done differently soandso Aug 2024 #63

I dont know either Israeli Aug 2024 #166

Thank you for this, Israeli soandso Aug 2024 #196

At the very least drmeow Aug 2024 #62

Bring them in line, how? soandso Aug 2024 #68

When one says, with regard to monetary aid drmeow Aug 2024 #103

Oh, okay soandso Aug 2024 #106

At the very least. drmeow Aug 2024 #116

There's another poster on this thread soandso Aug 2024 #122

That's a slippery slope drmeow Aug 2024 #125

Well, that's the first time I'd heard that soandso Aug 2024 #128

Whether We Like It Or Not....... Babywhale Aug 2024 #64

If you think Israel is a proxy soandso Aug 2024 #67

They Are The Keystone........ Babywhale Aug 2024 #72

I find it ironic that democrats would question whether they should fund the only democracy in that region Happyhippychick Aug 2024 #65

I don't think a majority of Democrats soandso Aug 2024 #71

I can definitely agree with getting rid of bibi but I don't know how that would happen. Happyhippychick Aug 2024 #118

Same soandso Aug 2024 #121

The only way, really, to get rid of him, is... yagotme Sep 2024 #240

Yes. We should stop funding Israel until they get rid of Netanyahu. Autumn Aug 2024 #66

And then what? soandso Aug 2024 #69

I was very clear with what I said. We should not fund Israel until they get Autumn Aug 2024 #73

Yeah, I get that soandso Aug 2024 #75

Netanyahu has kept Hamas in power because Hamas and he share a goal. Making sure that Autumn Aug 2024 #83

Bingo soandso Aug 2024 #153

Yes NT anamnua Aug 2024 #70

Our $$ is actually buying services from Israel Arazi Aug 2024 #74

Most interesting answer yet soandso Aug 2024 #87

Yes because we have the same relationship with Jordan Arazi Aug 2024 #99

Thank you for that well reasoned answer soandso Aug 2024 #102

Yes. The oil countries (OPEC) especially are of critical importance Arazi Aug 2024 #112

Hmmm soandso Aug 2024 #120

The US has the bloodiest hands of them all Arazi Aug 2024 #124

We're in agreement on the bloody hands soandso Aug 2024 #133

We're actually "friends" (sic) with OPEC countries Arazi Aug 2024 #169

I don't think "trust" soandso Aug 2024 #197

Lets discuss in January and focus on getting Kamala Harris elected. OAITW r.2.0 Aug 2024 #76

Should the US stop funding Israel? atreides1 Aug 2024 #77

No. former9thward Aug 2024 #78

Ally in what way soandso Aug 2024 #96

Against terrorist groups and countries. former9thward Aug 2024 #101

Why would you think I wouldn't soandso Aug 2024 #104

Those organizations and Iran have been killing Americans in the region for generations. former9thward Aug 2024 #107

When and where? soandso Aug 2024 #111

I think conditional funding is legitimate foreign policy. walkingman Aug 2024 #79

The recipients may not agree soandso Aug 2024 #95

Post removed Post removed Aug 2024 #80

Happy to answer soandso Aug 2024 #94

Let's see...new member of just under 2 months with GP6971 Aug 2024 #97

Off topic but what are "hides" and how can you tell megahertz Aug 2024 #108

A hide means that a post was removed for violating certain conditions. Once a member reaches 5 hidden posts in 90 GP6971 Aug 2024 #119

Oh okay, thank you. n/t megahertz Aug 2024 #127

Re: the hides soandso Aug 2024 #156

I wouldn't think animal rights or abuse would be a right-wing talking point. Odd. n/t megahertz Aug 2024 #188

This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Aug 2024 #117

I'm sorry you believe that soandso Aug 2024 #155

Your question/statement is well worded vapor2 Aug 2024 #85

Well, thank you soandso Aug 2024 #90

A big fat sellitman Aug 2024 #86

lol soandso Aug 2024 #89

No Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Aug 2024 #88

Let's you and them fight! Pinback Aug 2024 #91

This is a very difficult and nuanced question that absolutely cannot be answered by Bev54 Aug 2024 #93

No but with strings attached DSandra Aug 2024 #98

I like this answer, and I agree. B.See Aug 2024 #105

I think the US does soandso Aug 2024 #109

It might be of note that their economy typically ranks moniss Aug 2024 #123

Israel's debt to GDP is better than the US soandso Aug 2024 #147

What does the US get out of funding them? Johnny2X2X Aug 2024 #129

Read the posts in this thread from Arazi soandso Aug 2024 #145

It's called moniss Aug 2024 #158

Cut it in half Mysterian Aug 2024 #131

Yes they do soandso Aug 2024 #143

That sounds like a suggestion Israel use their nukes sarisataka Aug 2024 #146

It means Israel will never be invaded by a conventional army Mysterian Aug 2024 #149

Unfortunately, the threats Israel primarily faces are unconventional, sarisataka Aug 2024 #152

Every U.S. expenditure should be conditioned on what is best for the American people, Mysterian Aug 2024 #178

Should the US do an end to end review sarisataka Aug 2024 #182

My previous post read: Mysterian Aug 2024 #183

Just checking... sarisataka Aug 2024 #186

Israel has been the largest recipient of U.S. military aid since WWII Mysterian Aug 2024 #190

I didn't realize we were only discussing military aid sarisataka Aug 2024 #191

Israel received $4.8 billion in military aid in 2022 not $ 3 billion. PufPuf23 Aug 2024 #194

Aid should be based on what is best for the American people Mysterian Aug 2024 #211

absolutely stop funding Israel gopiscrap Aug 2024 #134

Yes. Unless they get rid of Netnyehoo FoxNewsSucks Aug 2024 #137

I don't understand why they don't soandso Aug 2024 #148

Not an easy thing to achieve during a war Israeli Aug 2024 #165

Very interesting soandso Aug 2024 #198

Nope BrianTheEVGuy Aug 2024 #144

I'll admit soandso Aug 2024 #157

It does BrianTheEVGuy Aug 2024 #159

I don't think that makes sense! soandso Aug 2024 #163

Jewish people will never be mass murdered again BrianTheEVGuy Aug 2024 #164

Who would you have Israel nuke? soandso Aug 2024 #199

Read the founding documents for Fatah, the PLO, Hamas and Hizbollah BrianTheEVGuy Aug 2024 #207

Got a link? soandso Aug 2024 #208

The information is easy enough to find with your preferred search engine BrianTheEVGuy Aug 2024 #209

I found the 2017 Hamas Charter soandso Aug 2024 #212

Read the FOUNDING charters BrianTheEVGuy Aug 2024 #214

I decided to read the revised charter soandso Aug 2024 #215

By your logic... BrianTheEVGuy Aug 2024 #216

If you can provide soandso Aug 2024 #217

Again, that's just ignoring the history BrianTheEVGuy Aug 2024 #219

The whole point being made to you is that the poster doesn't want anyone nuked. TheKentuckian Sep 2024 #242

The poster said Hamas wants to kill all Jews soandso Sep 2024 #256

fuck no larwdem Aug 2024 #151

This is a wedge issue. Can we JUST focus on the election right now, FlyingPiggy Aug 2024 #154

It should quit arming Israel iemanja Aug 2024 #161

That's for foreign policy experts to decide, not the "feelings" of misinformed random people. betsuni Aug 2024 #167

YES. The US should have stopped ages ago when Israel started taking away Palestinians lands. It is akbacchus_BC Aug 2024 #168

" Israel's plan is to kill all Palestinians so that its settlements can continue in Gaza. " EX500rider Sep 2024 #249

Thanks for addressing this head on Beringia Aug 2024 #170

Yes krawhitham Aug 2024 #177

Yes And No Deep State Witch Aug 2024 #189

Yes, or at least hold them accountable for their illegal settlements in the west bank dsp3000 Aug 2024 #193

Oy vey! 🙄 Here we go again! Let's "stop funding for Israel"... because Hamas is the ONLY threat to Israel? Please. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2024 #195

I agree w/you 100% about Hamas soandso Aug 2024 #204

Good to know. Oopsie Daisy Aug 2024 #210

No RandySF Aug 2024 #201

needs conditions. mainly the end of settlements. netanfuckyou has to resign. and 2 states. pansypoo53219 Aug 2024 #228

As long as we don't have National Healthcare, I say Emile Sep 2024 #238

Our not having national health care has absolutely nothing to do with Israel. TheKentuckian Sep 2024 #244

But, Israel has National Healthcare. Emile Sep 2024 #246

I think Israel still needs funding mvd Sep 2024 #250

As long as Netanyahu is in charge, yes. sboatcar Sep 2024 #251

Well, the question has a lot of constraints to it. Joinfortmill Sep 2024 #252

Well, no matter your position, consider this SamuelTheThird Sep 2024 #255

I don't pretend to have the answers soandso Sep 2024 #257

No. Swede Sep 2024 #260

Yes NT anamnua Sep 2024 #261

Absofuckinlutely Chakaconcarne Sep 2024 #262

Absolutely EnergizedLib Sep 2024 #267

Jewish parasite sarisataka Sep 2024 #268

Yes, I was unaware of this history EnergizedLib Sep 2024 #269