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thucythucy

(9,103 posts)
192. So you're saying "any rifle round"
Fri Sep 6, 2024, 01:06 PM
Sep 2024

will cause the same or worse devestating damage as demonstrated in the video?

The same or worse as what the trauma doctor describes?

So a deer hit by that ammunition will be mashed into pulp. same as demonstrated in the video?

If that's the case, then it sounds to me like you're making an argument against "hunting ammunition" as well.

I don't think anyone is arguing that "any rifle round" won't cause serious trauma.

The difference seems to be the degree of trauma. That, and the fact that an AR can deliver many more rounds in a much shorter time than your standard hunting rifle, which is what has made it the weapon of choice for so many mass shooters.

This it would seem is "the context" in which we need to frame this debate.

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For hunting. North Shore Chicago Sep 2024 #1
Heard someone on M. Joe this am say that ARs are used to hunt "feral pigs." allegorical oracle Sep 2024 #5
Wow! So there are 20 million American "feral pig" hunters in the United States. patphil Sep 2024 #10
To destroy a ferral unwanted species. "Hunting" (at least the ethical variety) implies killing for food. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #23
Most of those "hunters" don't harvest the meat. They're just exterminating a nuisance. bluesbassman Sep 2024 #20
It's just a rationalization dwayneb Sep 2024 #237
It's like the other excuse: "I have an AR-15 to defend against a tyrannical government!" bluesbassman Sep 2024 #250
That can be true. haele Sep 2024 #32
I doubt they've sold 20 million AR's just for wild hog hunting. Think. Again. Sep 2024 #53
I imagine man-traps arranged along a hiking path would bag a few feral pigs too. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #78
AR's come in different calibers. yagotme Sep 2024 #169
Yes they are used on feral pigs Ferryboat Sep 2024 #45
In their fantasy, it is a war zone. patphil Sep 2024 #114
There were feral pigs long before the AR15 doc03 Sep 2024 #58
Well, Every Farm Store RobinA Sep 2024 #98
In SE Pa they probably have a fear of zombies doc03 Sep 2024 #107
What did they do before the public had access to AR weapons? I guess JohnSJ Sep 2024 #61
It is. cab67 Sep 2024 #84
That was my Congressman AverageOldGuy Sep 2024 #160
Yes and no. DenaliDemocrat Sep 2024 #247
I let hunters use my property to hunt Grins Sep 2024 #254
Post removed Post removed Sep 2024 #19
Brings new meaning Katcat Sep 2024 #54
You'd likely get lead poisoning. soldierant Sep 2024 #133
Yes, they are used for hunting humans. ratchiweenie Sep 2024 #167
Read my post, JohnSJ. ProudMNDemocrat Sep 2024 #2
Ok, I will JohnSJ Sep 2024 #62
The only hunting it is "good" for is hunting Human prey... hlthe2b Sep 2024 #3
Not quite Abnredleg Sep 2024 #11
Bullshit. I've seen it. Automatic firing of these rounds, whether .223 or .30 does incredible damage. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #15
And I was in Iraq in 91 Abnredleg Sep 2024 #38
And when the weapon of choice for nearly all the nation's past mass killings has been the AR-15 the past decade where hlthe2b Sep 2024 #41
Your point is well taken Abnredleg Sep 2024 #59
Couldn't agree more MichMan Sep 2024 #76
So tell us about Uvalde. No don't bother. Hekate Sep 2024 #83
DEAD ON dwayneb Sep 2024 #239
If someone is hunting, they aren't firing on automatic, are they? RandomNumbers Sep 2024 #243
I am absolutely DONE with those fixated on debating types of semiautomatic guns, bullet caliber, velocity, hlthe2b Sep 2024 #244
Did you read the part in bold? I'm with you on the technicalities, HOWEVER RandomNumbers Sep 2024 #245
Good gawd... Doing it again. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #248
I believe this to be true. Oneironaut Sep 2024 #36
Bullshit. eom sarisataka Sep 2024 #13
Bullshit. EOM. No, see my other posts and then give some thought to your defense of the AR-15 hlthe2b Sep 2024 #18
I have been in combat and seen wounds from 5.56 mm up to 20mm sarisataka Sep 2024 #21
Yet another reason I beseech you to put me on your ignore list. Killing prairie dogs as "sport"... hlthe2b Sep 2024 #27
It is maintaining the ecosystem. sarisataka Sep 2024 #43
Bullshit. You have no clue. Do some damned research on the issue and don't just take what some hlthe2b Sep 2024 #44
Wow, judgy much? sarisataka Sep 2024 #51
I never discussed poisoning--that is ALL YOU. That might deprive you, however, of your shooting for fun. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #56
Post removed Post removed Sep 2024 #65
I don't, like you, sit on the back porch killing "varmints" with your AR-15 or whatever gun du jour, so I have had time hlthe2b Sep 2024 #67
Post removed Post removed Sep 2024 #72
ROFL hlthe2b Sep 2024 #73
I am glad I could make you laugh sarisataka Sep 2024 #89
I think your use of the word "varmint," then accusing ME of caricaturing you as Jed Clampett will make a lot hlthe2b Sep 2024 #94
It's called physics Abnredleg Sep 2024 #29
Enough of them semi-automatically directed into a body and shredding it beyond recognition is plenty lethal. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #31
Not saying that it isn't lethal Abnredleg Sep 2024 #42
MADNESS that we are DEBATING whether ANYONE can have a WEAPON OF WAR let alone Eliot Rosewater Sep 2024 #39
Exactly! hlthe2b Sep 2024 #47
Good point. calimary Sep 2024 #113
Madness - but this is where we live dwayneb Sep 2024 #240
A standard AR-15 in .223/5.56mm Zeitghost Sep 2024 #49
When you have seen what is left of a human shredded by semiautomatic use of an AR-15 on the autopsy table hlthe2b Sep 2024 #50
I've had the displeasure of seeing more than one gunshot victim Zeitghost Sep 2024 #57
That you want to debate one gun against another for its appropriate use in mass human killings is OBSCENE. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #60
I've never debated any such thing Zeitghost Sep 2024 #66
If repeating back to you the points you tried to make is "slander," you don't know what slander is. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #69
Post the quote Zeitghost Sep 2024 #131
Still waiting... Zeitghost Sep 2024 #185
They've likely put you on ignore. Wednesdays Sep 2024 #189
Would you agree with me that all semiautomatics are the real problem Kaleva Sep 2024 #142
All semi-automatics, yes. But the overwhelming majority of mass shootings have been AR-15s or their hlthe2b Sep 2024 #156
It's the cartridge fired and magazine capacity that make a gun an assault weapon Kaleva Sep 2024 #163
It would be a start--but ONLY a start. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #164
Nobody has said they are not that lethal Zeitghost Sep 2024 #187
interesting, isn't it? Cirsium Sep 2024 #200
We HAVE talked about velocity. yagotme Sep 2024 #204
Proving my point Cirsium Sep 2024 #205
From your post: yagotme Sep 2024 #206
Amazing Cirsium Sep 2024 #207
Because there's a whole lot of disinformation happening in this thread, yagotme Sep 2024 #209
no there isn't Cirsium Sep 2024 #211
If the people calling for an end to gun violence are spreading (incorrect information) disinformation, yagotme Sep 2024 #212
OK Cirsium Sep 2024 #213
The problem? yagotme Sep 2024 #214
Fair enough Cirsium Sep 2024 #216
Do you believe a particular gun is evil? yagotme Sep 2024 #219
Thanks for the discussion Cirsium Sep 2024 #224
"a WEAPON OF WAR " ForgedCrank Sep 2024 #86
So the video in post 39 is a hoax? thucythucy Sep 2024 #106
A standard deer cartridge Zeitghost Sep 2024 #135
I'm sorry, but I'm still confused. thucythucy Sep 2024 #137
It is true but missing context Zeitghost Sep 2024 #188
So you're saying "any rifle round" thucythucy Sep 2024 #192
I am saying Zeitghost Sep 2024 #220
It is the high SPEED and TUMBLE of the cartridges out of an AR that causes the massive damage compared to a handgun. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #144
A .223 coming out of an AR-15 will turn deer flesh to mush just like it does to humans. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #146
That is simply untrue Zeitghost Sep 2024 #182
What I said is true. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #215
A .223 does not behave any differently Zeitghost Sep 2024 #222
A .223 out of an AR-15 tumbles when it hits flesh, unlike a standard deer rifle bullet. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #223
That is not true Zeitghost Sep 2024 #229
It IS true. Look at the video clip. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #230
They are comparing it to a 9mm handgun round Zeitghost Sep 2024 #231
I have a request. ShazzieB Sep 2024 #147
I have seen it Zeitghost Sep 2024 #183
You didnt really answer my question. ShazzieB Sep 2024 #274
That's not true. DenaliDemocrat Sep 2024 #241
When you take a wry cynical comment bemoaning the death of countless children and adults in mass murder hlthe2b Sep 2024 #242
When you insert lies into an otherwise substantive DenaliDemocrat Sep 2024 #246
Your personal attacks noted and beyond inappropriate. It reflects very poorly on you. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #249
Personal attacks??? DenaliDemocrat Sep 2024 #251
.. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #253
Either they're lying about hunting, or no_hypocrisy Sep 2024 #4
Last I checked gab13by13 Sep 2024 #68
It is, the .223 round is not deemed sufficiently powerful enough to ensure a clean kill, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #109
It is not that the AR-15 is not "powerful enough." SunSeeker Sep 2024 #152
Essentially none of that is true Zeitghost Sep 2024 #261
Everything in my post is true, with links to credible sources. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #264
Full metal jacket bullets that have a tendancy Melon Sep 2024 #266
A .223 coming out of an AR-15 is not a "varmint round." It's a soldier pulverizer. nt SunSeeker Sep 2024 #267
Any bullet is capable of tumbling on impact Zeitghost Sep 2024 #281
The AR-15 is designed to spew .223 bullets at a speed that will make them tumble upon impact with flesh. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #283
The speed of a .223 has nothing to do with an AR-15 Zeitghost Sep 2024 #288
The video explains and SHOWS how the AR-15 makes bullets tumble. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #289
And you're still posting at me... Zeitghost Sep 2024 #290
You should just stop posting replies to me. You're wasting your and my time. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #291
You've posted a single video Zeitghost Sep 2024 #292
It is you who is spreading disinformation that hurts the gun control movement. nt SunSeeker Sep 2024 #293
Depends on what cartridge the gun is chambered to fire Kaleva Sep 2024 #258
Thank you for new information. no_hypocrisy Sep 2024 #262
That's one of the reasons the AR-15 platform is so popular Kaleva Sep 2024 #263
Being able to put .22 and shotgun shells in AR-15s is not why they're popular, lol. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #268
Millions of those guns out in the public Kaleva Sep 2024 #273
What percentage of people who drove drunk killed someone? Yet it is still illegal. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #275
Poor analogy MichMan Sep 2024 #277
Poor attempt to dispute a perfect analogy. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #284
The proper analogy to drunk driving being illegal would be that shooting people should therefore be illegal MichMan Sep 2024 #285
Drunk driving is like owning an AR-15. There is no redeeming benefit to it, and it can result in death. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #286
Do you think people buy AR-15s to put shotgun shells in them? SunSeeker Sep 2024 #269
Couple of years ago I read a study that says roughly 6% or people hunt at least once a year. To me that means about Silent Type Sep 2024 #6
Are they hunting thirty deer at a time, all of whom are capable of shooting back? Aristus Sep 2024 #7
Hear hear! Mysterian Sep 2024 #101
They actually don't say that D_Master81 Sep 2024 #8
Then you've missed the pro-AR-15 crowd after every attempt to bring back the ban. I am shocked you have hlthe2b Sep 2024 #12
And THAT is the stupidest claim of all. Those Meal Team Six slugs with their dude ranch AR's ain't deterring crap. bluesbassman Sep 2024 #30
One of the times I went deer hunting, I could hear someone using an assault rifle. Archae Sep 2024 #9
One of little Kyley Rittenhouse's excuses was that he was 'hunting'. keithbvadu2 Sep 2024 #14
Sorry that facts get in the way of your opinion sarisataka Sep 2024 #16
Very common. Better than a bolt action or older semi-auto. nt LexVegas Sep 2024 #24
It isn't my first choice sarisataka Sep 2024 #28
Why Though? ProfessorGAC Sep 2024 #26
The compactness is useful in hunting sarisataka Sep 2024 #48
They are available in just about any configuration Zeitghost Sep 2024 #63
You might want to re-measure your Springfield. yagotme Sep 2024 #170
Are guns necessary? Brainfodder Sep 2024 #17
They work better.... MacDo Sep 2024 #25
Do you REALLY live in that degree of constant ffffeeeaaarrrrr??? Dock_Yard Sep 2024 #71
I don't MacDo Sep 2024 #104
Ridiculous. Dock_Yard Sep 2024 #116
..... MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #118
Make sure you carry... MacDo Sep 2024 #120
Do you really like putting woooorrrrddddssss in people's mouths MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #117
Re-read post# 25 Dock_Yard Sep 2024 #119
No, that's your opinion not based on any facts whatsoever. MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #121
You can always live the life that decreases your chances of being killed too. Isn't that better than poisoning all of .. uponit7771 Sep 2024 #238
It is extremely common as a hunting weapon. nt LexVegas Sep 2024 #22
it shouldn't matter if they are "great for hunting" DBoon Sep 2024 #33
I hear hand grenades are great for fishing. thucythucy Sep 2024 #105
Wondering how hunters were successful prior to the almighty AR-15 model?? NoMoreRepugs Sep 2024 #34
When a disturbed kid gets access to dad's weapon cache, Arne Sep 2024 #35
No civilian NEEDS an AR-15 for anything. dchill Sep 2024 #37
No military in the world equips their troops with it Kaleva Sep 2024 #122
As far as I know, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #123
Agree. Semi auto rifles aren't found on the battlefield Kaleva Sep 2024 #125
Okay. Is what I said wrong? dchill Sep 2024 #124
Or it's a collectors item, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #126
I would say that most civilians don't need any kind of gun Kaleva Sep 2024 #127
Exactly what I told another member in either this thread or another thread, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #128
I have a .38 Special revolver Kaleva Sep 2024 #129
That's a misleading claim, Kaleva. The AR-15 sold to civilians is a replica of the M16. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #145
The ArmaLite AR-15 was a select fire rifle designed for the military Kaleva Sep 2024 #149
There is no "confusion." AR-15 rifles were originally designed for the military. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #150
The ArmaLite AR-15 was designed for the military Kaleva Sep 2024 #159
All of these AR-15 style rifles have their origins in Stoner's assault rifle invention he made for the military. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #218
Yes but the Colt AR-15 wasn't designed for the military Kaleva Sep 2024 #221
Sick, greedy gun manufacturers took a military weapon and marketed it to civilians. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #225
The .223 Remington will tumble upon impact even when fired from a bolt action Kaleva Sep 2024 #227
No, not all bullets tumble like a .223 out of an AR-15. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #228
I noticed they only used a AR-15 and not any other rifle chambered to fire the .223 round Kaleva Sep 2024 #232
The results were NOT the same, Kaleva. The .308 in your video did not tumble. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #233
I said the results would be the same if the .223 ... Kaleva Sep 2024 #234
If Stephen Paddock had been using a bolt action rifle, he would not have been able to kill 60 and wound 413 in Vegas. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #255
You are bouncing all over the place Kaleva Sep 2024 #259
It is you who is bouncing all over the place. I addressed your claims. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #260
It's like the right wing has a script to follow or something. Initech Sep 2024 #40
Yes, you know, I've decided I need my own M1A1 Abrams TANK to hunt squirrels! n/t PatrickforB Sep 2024 #46
Here is the little I know about what our military consider weapons of war. In 1965 early 1966 I was being trained as.... usaf-vet Sep 2024 #52
Thank you for your post and your service. Evolve Dammit Sep 2024 #108
Anyone else notice the BattleRow Sep 2024 #55
it's their usual hypocrisy Skittles Sep 2024 #96
It's not the caliber. It's not anything " blown into a million pieces" Melon Sep 2024 #64
They are great for hunting and efficiently killing large numbers of humans in a short amount of time dlk Sep 2024 #70
The AR-15 is the grandson of the M16 ashredux Sep 2024 #74
Post removed Post removed Sep 2024 #172
Well, I was in the military too. I was with 101st. But I don't hunt, but I do know what the M-16 could do. ashredux Sep 2024 #176
YOU don't hunt, but the "hunting" argument is BS. yagotme Sep 2024 #178
Come on man... you know why 90% of the people by the weapon. To shoot other people. Period. ashredux Sep 2024 #190
Post removed Post removed Sep 2024 #191
That's not an argument. You're just digging your hole deeper.... ashredux Sep 2024 #193
"That's not an argument." Well, let's try something... yagotme Sep 2024 #194
you're struggling I can see.... ashredux Sep 2024 #195
"You do not need an AR 15" yagotme Sep 2024 #198
Well, when you can say that someone in a car can go into a high school and kill multiple people in minutes... ashredux Sep 2024 #197
How about a van through a parade? yagotme Sep 2024 #199
... there were 82 school shooting incidents recorded in 2023..... ashredux Sep 2024 #202
Thanks for answering my question... yagotme Sep 2024 #203
Hopefully they don't switch to trucks EX500rider Sep 2024 #208
That's a "high-capacity" vehicle, and should be banned... yagotme Sep 2024 #210
Mocking high capacity magazine bans is really reprehensible, yagotme. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #257
You can't take a truck into a school, church or movie theater, EX500rider. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #256
Please, at all three of those venues you could mow more people down on the sidewalk out front.. EX500rider Sep 2024 #271
Nope. The "why" is we equip our homicidal loons with AR-15s, unlike other countries. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #272
I'll tell ya, some of the bullshit I'm reading in this thread baffles me, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #75
What an AR-15 (and similar) CAN DO and DID in these mass shootings from the Congressional Record, no less: hlthe2b Sep 2024 #77
Here's what happens when you shoot pork shoulders jmbar2 Sep 2024 #100
Yes. I already know. hlthe2b Sep 2024 #102
So, what that video shows Wednesdays Sep 2024 #196
It's not a clip. It's a magazine. Blah, blah, blah. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #79
Well, at least you got that right, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #85
How could I be looking for an argument? You already said you were not going to speak on Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #87
LOL. MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #88
That doesn't really make sense, and what I said was not an innuendo. I stated it pretty directly. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #92
Well then, you are directly wholly ignorant of what my hobbies are. MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #93
Hey MCE! sarisataka Sep 2024 #81
Yup, in a rather forceful way. MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #82
It makes our side look as stupid as the gun nuts on the other side. nt LexVegas Sep 2024 #90
+100. nt MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #91
Worse, actually. imho. Fla_Democrat Sep 2024 #115
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Sep 2024 #80
gun humpers are cowards Skittles Sep 2024 #95
If a person can't hit a deer with a regular rifle or small game with a shotgun, they should not be in the woods. appleannie1 Sep 2024 #97
Most states ban the use of the .223 round for deer hunting, it's not powerful enough ensure MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #99
AR's come in many calibers MacDo Sep 2024 #110
Yes they do, and I was just getting ready to post such a reply to another post here, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #111
I was told that you have to hunt with a shotgun here in Delaware, we are very small state bullets travel too far Walleye Sep 2024 #157
Quite possibly, MarineCombatEngineer Sep 2024 #162
And it's not even great for big game hunting. Elessar Zappa Sep 2024 #103
Apparently we have reached the "gun humpers chat gun porn" phase Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #112
It seems that the AR 15 is great for "hunting" people. Sessuch Sep 2024 #130
It seems to me that the people who are explaining guns are interested in helping us be accurate LauraInLA Sep 2024 #136
Except some of these "explanations" are misleading and derail conversations. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #153
Sure. This conversation is crucial in stopping school shootings. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #158
I guess YMMV. LauraInLA Sep 2024 #201
K&R spanone Sep 2024 #132
The problem with the "AR-15s are great for hunting" thing... jmowreader Sep 2024 #134
For deer, I'd prefer the more powerful AR10 which is chambered to fire more powerful rounds Kaleva Sep 2024 #141
No Real Hunter Will Use An Assault Rifle While Hunting... GB_RN Sep 2024 #138
Numerous guns besides the AR-15 can fire the .223 Remington Kaleva Sep 2024 #140
It's Not Just The 0.223 Round. GB_RN Sep 2024 #168
Without high capacity magazines, a bump stock is useless Kaleva Sep 2024 #171
Not Quite So Much. GB_RN Sep 2024 #179
Personally I think bump stocks are pretty stupid CelticCrow Sep 2024 #217
That is exactly what all deer rifles do Zeitghost Sep 2024 #184
The only edit I would make is as follows - TBF Sep 2024 #139
They're for hunting sparrows. tclambert Sep 2024 #143
The AR-15 is the perfect weapon! Aussie105 Sep 2024 #148
They should not be in civilian hands. Duncanpup Sep 2024 #151
You can't with an AR-15 RandySF Sep 2024 #154
I'll just add my 2 cents on the subject. While I haven't hunted or lived in a rural area for years captain queeg Sep 2024 #155
Personally, I think an AR-15 is a lousy choice for home defense Kaleva Sep 2024 #175
It's the magazine size AverageOldGuy Sep 2024 #161
I agree Kaleva Sep 2024 #174
Yep. captain queeg Sep 2024 #226
The AR15 is a weapon of war...some kid themselves by putting different bullets in but it is not a hunting weapon. Demsrule86 Sep 2024 #165
What war was the civilian AR-15 used in? nt yagotme Sep 2024 #173
It is a religious symbol! gibraltar72 Sep 2024 #166
Other than killing people Linda ladeewolf Sep 2024 #177
A simple question: Why don't any other advanced nations have this problem? We all know the answer. Doodley Sep 2024 #180
AR-15 style rifle is the majority/plurality preferred weapon for hunting and killing unarmed school children. keithbvadu2 Sep 2024 #181
Handguns are much more common Zeitghost Sep 2024 #186
Yet, 250 people shot every weekend with handguns gets less attention here than a AR15 shooting with a few victims MichMan Sep 2024 #252
If it's good for feral pigs, why not human beings? dwayneb Sep 2024 #236
Handguns by far is the weapon of choice of mass shooters Kaleva Sep 2024 #265
AR-15 style assault rifles were the weapon of choice in our nation's worst (highest death) mass shootings. SunSeeker Sep 2024 #270
Also from the very link you referenced MichMan Sep 2024 #279
What part of "worst" do you not understand? SunSeeker Sep 2024 #282
Actually- they are very cheap DenaliDemocrat Sep 2024 #235
Have you noticed how defenders of assault weapons point to the mixed stats on whether Sibelius Fan Sep 2024 #276
I think it's time to stop letting humpers out of the gungeon after mass shootings. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #278
We need to vote out the NRA supported assholes LetMyPeopleVote Sep 2024 #280
Ignorance doesn't help jujubeets Sep 2024 #287
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