General Discussion

eridani

(51,907 posts)

67. Because actuarial risk adjustment is both viciously amoral and twice as expensive to boot

Mon Dec 10, 2012, 07:36 AM

Dec 2012

Fucking around with risk pools and having healthier people game the system essentially executes 100,000 per year in the US, and leads to costs that are twice what other developed countries pay for this shitty result. And that's not even counting millions of medical bankruptcies, which in MA after implementing a plan similar to ACA dropped from 59% of all bankruptcies to 50% of all bankruptcies (and that mainly because the depression added lots of other reasons to go bankrupt).

Putting everyone in the same risk pool eliminates this idiotic administrative expense, so that young people in these countries actually pay less than young people here. Those systems are a statement to the young that their parents hope and expect that their kids will live long enough to possibly require more expensive care, which they will not have to pay extra to get.

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If you’re younger than 50 and entirely self insured you’re in for a nightmare.. [View all] busterbrown Dec 2012 OP

Here's a possible solution Xipe Totec Dec 2012 #1

Assume you are speaking of health insurance. Fortunately, Obamacare has some provisions that Hoyt Dec 2012 #2

The way I understand it... WinstonSmith4740 Dec 2012 #10

It still would not have passed karynnj Dec 2012 #24

Lieberman is a snake. (n/t) LAGC Dec 2012 #41

Lieberman SHOULD have been given an offer he couldn't refuse. bvar22 Dec 2012 #80

Why would we have to give up choice of doctors, etc.? subterranean Dec 2012 #11

Except, you are free to go to any doctor, take almost any medicine available, etc. Hoyt Dec 2012 #81

Giving up choice of doctor and hospital? Utter horseshit eridani Dec 2012 #19

If all else fails move to a country that has social medicine. southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #3

I guess you haven't looked at their immigration laws davekriss Dec 2012 #53

Yes I understand and agree with you.. Just an option I hope my fellow americans don't have to take. southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #72

well at least the welfare parasite military will still be getting tons of $$ nt msongs Dec 2012 #4

Oh no rainin Dec 2012 #5

We live in a F'en insane country. Yep, I know it's not the worse, but the US is a RKP5637 Dec 2012 #6

"Not the worse" isn't really good enough, is it? nt Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #29

No, it really isn't, it's always used too much, I think, to gage our ineptness as acceptable. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2012 #32

Sadly, too many people still think we are number one. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #35

No, it certainly is not, not at all. I had a republican tell me the other day, well, you RKP5637 Dec 2012 #38

Whenever someone pulls the "love it or leave it" bullshit on me Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #45

Yep, same here! n/t RKP5637 Dec 2012 #46

My God... PopeOxycontinI Dec 2012 #7

if you have a middle class home and salary,You’ll have to protect your home and assets busterbrown Dec 2012 #8

I'm 64 and I ran into that leftyladyfrommo Dec 2012 #9

Less scary than before. Starting next year, they won't be able to charge more pnwmom Dec 2012 #16

Yup, age is such a trivial factor. eridani Dec 2012 #20

For a 60 year old to pay 3 times as much as a 20 year old sounds like a pretty good deal to me. pnwmom Dec 2012 #23

Your problem is that you have gotten too used to living in a barbaric society eridani Dec 2012 #39

You'd rather starve than have half a loaf. I wouldn't. pnwmom Dec 2012 #42

Not for those age 55-64 eridani Dec 2012 #44

Even people in that age group will be better off. pnwmom Dec 2012 #48

The subsidies won't be enough, and they are in the form of tax credits eridani Dec 2012 #56

That's what you say. I don't think we'll know if the subsidies will be enough pnwmom Dec 2012 #62

What we know about MA is-- eridani Dec 2012 #65

Why do you think young people, who are in general healthier and make less money, pnwmom Dec 2012 #66

Because actuarial risk adjustment is both viciously amoral and twice as expensive to boot eridani Dec 2012 #67

That's not why the costs are lower there. It's because hospital and doctor charges are regulated pnwmom Dec 2012 #70

It is certainly one of the reasons eridani Dec 2012 #71

There will be a donut hole where people make too much for aid but too little for good insurance. Selatius Dec 2012 #61

I agree. The ACA is basically a floor -- and now we need to build on that floor. nt pnwmom Dec 2012 #63

Pray tell... How old are you. I had blue cross in Cali. and paid 350 with a huge deductible. busterbrown Dec 2012 #27

Obamacare will limit such increases. subterranean Dec 2012 #12

Isn't that wonderful! Young people pay $300 or more a month Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #33

They limit the increases without approval to 9.9% per year eridani Dec 2012 #68

Are we forgetting? MJJP21 Dec 2012 #13

Which basically means "Affordable" haealth care progressoid Dec 2012 #47

Well, 20% JoeyT Dec 2012 #64

Death Panels: blkmusclmachine Dec 2012 #14

Is this based on info you have about Obamacare or are you basing this on past history? pnwmom Dec 2012 #15

I’m talking about my situation only. Middle class job with assets probably in the upper middle busterbrown Dec 2012 #25

a lot of people do not get that part Skittles Dec 2012 #31

Do you have some authority for these projections? WheelWalker Dec 2012 #17

Just my own experience with Blue Cross. Just got Medicare! busterbrown Dec 2012 #26

Malarkey. I'm in my 64th year. My BC-BS self-pay premium is $550. Deductible is $1,500 and, WheelWalker Dec 2012 #30

What is your out of pocket expense if you have another hospital stay.. busterbrown Dec 2012 #60

"Self-insured" means you pay for ALL your med expenses. You mean "individual insurance policy" Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #18

Sorry.... Individual Insurance Policy is what I am referring to. Self insured, I thought I buy my ow busterbrown Dec 2012 #22

Don't forget that people lose their jobs late in life thru no fault of their own... Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #21

Or, you could live like I do, crim son Dec 2012 #28

Watch out for that "uncontrollable GERD". Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #34

Don't forget the magnesium with that Vit D/Calcium theinquisitivechad Dec 2012 #55

I thought that was what the Vit D was for. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #76

Daily salad helps me a lot. Mixed greens, not just iceberg lettuce. nt patrice Dec 2012 #78

In Canada a hospital has around three employees doing claims and similar size hospital Thinkingabout Dec 2012 #36

True. truebluegreen Dec 2012 #37

Much the same here. Bonobo Dec 2012 #49

Yes. It is clear to me that our own government doesn't consider us citizens truebluegreen Dec 2012 #57

Why are they able to discriminate against Politicalboi Dec 2012 #40

Healthcare costs drlindaphd Dec 2012 #43

If you're under fifty and self insured customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #50

I'm 47 and in good health and switched over to a high deductible (5K) with an HSA Lex Dec 2012 #51

Good for you customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #52

Thanks for helping to bankrupt and kill the 15% sick minority by withdrawing money from the system eridani Dec 2012 #69

How is he withdrawing money from the system? Lex Dec 2012 #73

Health savings accounts are useful only to those affluent enough to pay income tax eridani Dec 2012 #74

Wrong, HSA don't pay for aspirin and bandaids. Lex Dec 2012 #75

I signed up for this account the year I bought hearing aids eridani Dec 2012 #82

I'm just taking advantage of a legal choice I have customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #83

Systems that cover almost everything are the exact opposite of wasteful eridani Dec 2012 #84

When we get such a system, fine customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #85

Health insurance that covers most things for everyone is cheaper, period eridani Dec 2012 #86

Do those other countries have doctors that practice defensive medicine? customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #87

Care to take a guess at what the average monthly GP malpractice premium is-- eridani Dec 2012 #88

I'd like to see Federal malpractice insurance customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #89

I don't agree that it's part of the problem. The problem is lack of guaranteed-- eridani Dec 2012 #91

For a bunch of people who claim to understand business, Republicans just don't get this... Hippo_Tron Dec 2012 #54

Hmm. One would think that they don't care about the risk to the people, truebluegreen Dec 2012 #58

I'd like to know exactly where you are getting your numbers from. MoonchildCA Dec 2012 #59

What is this thing you call insurance? n/t gkhouston Dec 2012 #77

Things will be better Turbineguy Dec 2012 #79

I do not think that "Obamacare" is going to affect me much. littlewolf Dec 2012 #90