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ret5hd

(22,536 posts)

112. Why aren't you blaming management instead of the unions??? Really! No...really really?

Wed Dec 12, 2012, 04:09 PM

Dec 2012

I (27 yr union man) recently had to attend a function with a management guy, very anti-union. This function lasted several days. One evening we went to dinner together. The conversation turned to unions. It went like this:

Him: My father was in a union. He told me a story about a guy who wouldn't move his tool box from "here to there". He said it wasn't his job. That's just wrong.

Me: You know, I'm not gonna argue over whether that happened or not. I'm sure somewhere, sometime, something like that happened to somebody. But let me ask you, what is the union, to a guy like me on the floor, on a day-to-day basis? Not during contract negotiations, just day-to-day, everyday?

Him: (starts some long drawn out explanation about representation)

Me: Well, yeah, but mostly the union is just a pre-paid lawyer. and not a good lawyer. We hire our lawyers off the shop floor. They ain't been to law school, they ain't been to years long training. They are just off the floor, and they are called shop stewards. And that's who represents us in arbitration. And you know what? If my cheap-ass-off-the-shop-floor lawyer beats your corporate paid, college trained, cufflink-wearin' lawyer, it AIN'T MY DAMN FAULT!

He shut up about unions after that.

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Union workers who hate unions. I don't get it. [View all] Lesleymo Dec 2012 OP

Does he watch FOX? liberal N proud Dec 2012 #1

Ingratitude is a modern American value BeyondGeography Dec 2012 #2

Have you read this? Might explain some of it Locrian Dec 2012 #3

There are lots of poorly educated folks in these blue Laurian Dec 2012 #4

I know teachers who hate unions. proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #67

Unfortunately unions may be turning into just mutual organizations Recursion Dec 2012 #73

Teacher wanting Bibles in school maybe? barbiegeek Dec 2012 #104

Sigh. This is why we're losing on labor issues Recursion Dec 2012 #111

Yes it does standingtall Dec 2012 #132

Same thing with my rightwingnut brother. Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #5

It sounds like you got answers when you asked them The2ndWheel Dec 2012 #6

I've been in one for about four years now customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #7

How is the union preventing recognition for good work? Laurian Dec 2012 #10

Glad to see your husband has it good that way customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #153

I get it. Hard workers get paid the same as lazy ones. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #18

I get it. hay rick Dec 2012 #37

Sometimes they do. Other people view it as a workplace thing. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #63

Hate to break it to you Capt. Obvious Dec 2012 #45

No, it never was a union thing exclusively. It's a workplace TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #60

Sit around playing cards while other people work -- IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #72

Sounds like someone needs to set standards and make people accountable, that's not union...poor lead uponit7771 Dec 2012 #84

+1 nt rDigital Dec 2012 #89

and new hires often come in at pay they did not "earn" SoCalDem Dec 2012 #139

*boggle* "no intrigue"? Recursion Dec 2012 #148

I am enjoying my union pension..and I liked making $16+ an hour (retired in '96) SoCalDem Dec 2012 #149

That's also true of non-union workers who have "connections". And there are plenty of them. SharonAnn Dec 2012 #121

Truth. But when union dues are paid, you expect better IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #126

Not really sure what the union has to do with that Bradical79 Dec 2012 #158

A study I read about 10-12 years back addresses your issues happyslug Dec 2012 #28

The 90-day probationary period is important. hay rick Dec 2012 #41

And the 90 Day probationary period is a historical accident. happyslug Dec 2012 #87

Fascinating!!! IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #93

Very interesting. nt hay rick Dec 2012 #97

That's very interesting. SheilaT Dec 2012 #103

Thanks for the informative post. Incitatus Dec 2012 #105

And that's the problem with talking about "unions" in general. Different types of work... Recursion Dec 2012 #66

If the union is holding you down... hay rick Dec 2012 #34

Yep, go enjoy employment at will. nt rDigital Dec 2012 #91

When we get an economy back customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #154

Sounds like the company you work for has a problem, not the Union necessarily. bluestate10 Dec 2012 #39

Oh, it does indeed customerserviceguy Dec 2012 #155

Then your beef is with management. Union membership has little to do with how they perceive you. Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #50

if you have "lazy" coworkers, you have a management problem, not a union problem. n/t Scout Dec 2012 #62

What should management do? (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #74

gosh, i guess they have no performance standards, no means of discipline. Scout Dec 2012 #81

Well, actually Recursion Dec 2012 #83

Evaluate, document and provide the proper paperwork! haele Dec 2012 #138

excellent post, thank you n/t Scout Dec 2012 #142

I just had a argument about this on another forum where most folks there are RW, not all but most Ya Basta Dec 2012 #8

Happens all the time union_maid Dec 2012 #9

Talk about biting the hand that feed you. Do you talk to her often? Does she think she or her bluestate10 Dec 2012 #42

Well, I figured it out. One time we got an extra year's vacation and another we got long-term SharonAnn Dec 2012 #120

Media brainwashing. undeterred Dec 2012 #11

I've had this conversation with people gollygee Dec 2012 #12

Another consideration regarding unions.... Laurian Dec 2012 #13

Maybe his union sucked? RevStPatrick Dec 2012 #14

You don't get it because you have not been a union worker. MrYikes Dec 2012 #15

Sound more like personal problems. ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2012 #110

If your union sucks standingtall Dec 2012 #140

Reading comprehension is not taught well at many schools. MrYikes Dec 2012 #151

It's truly mind boggling. RegieRocker Dec 2012 #16

I can explain: THE CORRUPTION. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #17

Kinda like political appointees...no Historic NY Dec 2012 #19

Yes, it is the same thing. My FIL holds politicians in contempt as well. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #25

Yes, there is corruption 1gobluedem Dec 2012 #24

You can say that, but the stories I am sharing are PERSONAL. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #26

my dad experienced the same thing at the phone company jollyreaper2112 Dec 2012 #35

I think the wedge issue could have been handled IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #98

If members pay dues they have a right to be represented. standingtall Dec 2012 #143

I was bargained for by a union for years 1gobluedem Dec 2012 #47

I have been "at will" for my entire career. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #54

Well, stories can also be exaggerated 1gobluedem Dec 2012 #68

The automatic assumption that my family lies IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #78

Sigh. I didn't call anyone a liar 1gobluedem Dec 2012 #117

I appreciate your clarification. Now, pretend they were telling *their* truth. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #118

Would you like me to share some local stories? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #95

Several years ago I was fired after two days SheilaT Dec 2012 #108

I had a manager honestly tell me -- IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #119

Yep, been there. LiberalArkie Dec 2012 #27

The stupid part is that "everyone knows" and nothing changes. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #30

I understand your reaction, however: olegramps Dec 2012 #31

"...allowing cronyism and outright gangsters to become entrench[ed]..." IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #33

Ok, none John2 Dec 2012 #44

I am sharing the stories my family tells about Unions. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #52

From a different perspective. bluestate10 Dec 2012 #49

My husband is management, and I agree with you. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #56

unions do have accountability standingtall Dec 2012 #144

Eh, where I live you aren't going to get in a union in the first place unless you know someone Fumesucker Dec 2012 #70

^^^ This (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #75

Yup. The results of extreme rarity. Bradical79 Dec 2012 #159

When I was in elementary school, teachers hit kids. proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #77

The stories span 40 years. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #79

Why aren't you blaming management instead of the unions??? Really! No...really really? ret5hd Dec 2012 #112

Because the union people have to pay $$$ to get treated like crap IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #122

But you're getting MORE of a paycheck 'cause of the union. ret5hd Dec 2012 #129

My firsthand experience is very different from your secondhand account. hay rick Dec 2012 #133

It's a lot like the anti-vaccine crowd in a way. Geoff R. Casavant Dec 2012 #20

You got that exactly right! marybourg Dec 2012 #86

In florida (right to work) state Rocky888 Dec 2012 #21

my wifes union president is a teabagger.... madrchsod Dec 2012 #22

I have a cousin like that. progressoid Dec 2012 #40

Hate Radio & Fox News Doctor_J Dec 2012 #23

YES! progressoid Dec 2012 #38

A big clue is in your post: "He has a high-school education..." Yavin4 Dec 2012 #29

I have been on both sides..... Uben Dec 2012 #32

^== This. IdaBriggs Dec 2012 #36

just one of my examples MrYikes Dec 2012 #57

OK, but this means we need to FIX THE BAD LOCALS... Recursion Dec 2012 #76

There you are. MrYikes Dec 2012 #100

They don't get that without that union they hate so much they'd have died at their post. Arkana Dec 2012 #43

RW media Capt. Obvious Dec 2012 #46

Fox News. Any other explanation is incomplete. Taverner Dec 2012 #48

My dues are about Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #51

Idiots libodem Dec 2012 #53

Basically, A Lot Of People RobinA Dec 2012 #55

Right to Work Issue DRS Dec 2012 #58

google "right to work" and find out what it really means putitinD Dec 2012 #134

all 3 of my brothers in law are like that Scout Dec 2012 #59

Maybe his local was incompetent or corrupt? Recursion Dec 2012 #61

As workers and unions decrease in power and influence, employers and management increase theirs... YoungDemCA Dec 2012 #64

Yes. The fact that the left doesn't get what turns workers off is a big part of the problem. Recursion Dec 2012 #65

"Being told to sit down and wait your turn when you're objectively better at the job Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #101

I dunno, maybe working conditions, benefits and job security to start putitinD Dec 2012 #131

Piss on all that!!! I should be able to push that old lady that's been casheiring for 10 yrs... ret5hd Dec 2012 #136

There were 4 openings for cashiers listed at the time I applied so nice try with the snark. Piazza Riforma Dec 2012 #150

Your reply doesn't even make sense... ret5hd Dec 2012 #152

That is the power of propaganda nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #69

probably true, minimum wage and no benefits for everyone putitinD Dec 2012 #135

Why is it that in the largest democracy in the world, RoccoR5955 Dec 2012 #71

Germany requires labor be part of corporate boards Recursion Dec 2012 #85

Hopefully he hasn't lived his entire life Yet. But let's say he worked at Ford for jtuck004 Dec 2012 #80

You are talking about "Pretty Willie" MrYikes Dec 2012 #92

Maybe he had a chance to do that _because_ of the union. jtuck004 Dec 2012 #99

Ya know, I was ready ta get all negative MrYikes Dec 2012 #102

I never mean to take away from people's individual, admirable achievement jtuck004 Dec 2012 #113

lol ,,, thanks. nt MrYikes Dec 2012 #116

There's always the few scunbags who want the benefits, but not the fight! dmosh42 Dec 2012 #82

It makes as much sense as state employees who avebury Dec 2012 #88

He thinks he has more rights than the union has fought to get him. ...Fool... The Wielding Truth Dec 2012 #90

I'm just so sad to make $30/hr and have Union representation. It just rages me to no end. rDigital Dec 2012 #94

Consider confirmation bias jollyreaper2112 Dec 2012 #96

I really really really wish you'd edit your post one more time MrYikes Dec 2012 #107

why do you believe racism doesn't exist??? ret5hd Dec 2012 #137

Wow, I don't know how I can live without your approval jollyreaper2112 Dec 2012 #160

I don't get it either ismnotwasm Dec 2012 #106

Without knowing the particulars Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #109

If you dig deep, quite often it's about race. Kingofalldems Dec 2012 #114

Many white working class would rather starve along with minorities Dawson Leery Dec 2012 #123

The Unions are the key to President Obama's progressive transformation of our country BanTheGOP Dec 2012 #115

What really gets you is that they are typically the most lazy aandegoons Dec 2012 #124

I don't know about other states, but in Texas we are a right to work state and we have lots of JohLast Dec 2012 #125

Wow Texas had right to work laws 40 years ago? aandegoons Dec 2012 #130

Texas passed RTW in 1947, right after Taft-Hartley Recursion Dec 2012 #146

The big problem is standingtall Dec 2012 #147

All he cares about it money Rex Dec 2012 #127

I've heard the same from union workers....... Smilo Dec 2012 #128

They aren't thinking (in answer to your question). One cruel legacy of McCarthyism and coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #141

They are called malcontents Major Nikon Dec 2012 #145

Weak-minded intellectually lazy people LWolf Dec 2012 #156

500$ per year to make 10k per year in additional income. Sirveri Dec 2012 #157