General Discussion

Pholus

(4,062 posts)

50. I can finally articulate why this is a pathetically stupid idea. It's not the silence...

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 09:22 AM

Dec 2012

Actually, the silence and discipline isn't even the main problem here. It is the coercion of "enthusiastic" responses which would be the dream of every Pointy Haired Boss if only it could be a term of employment for them as well. Well, with the proliferation of "right to work" legislation, I guess that's just around the corner too.

In the article I see interactions requiring a forced, cookie cutter market-speak which will remove all pretence of honest discourse from the student-teacher relationship. It does not appear to allow for the possibility of a non-peak day. It builds a wall as the teacher hides behind formality and rote routine. It disconnects the student as their own feelings (if not in line with corporate goals) must be suppressed. It is also the kind of absolutism that will breed cynicism if it is not coupled with absolute success and it is not clear that the prerequisites for that are there.

I suppose at some point, the dear leader (excuse me, the "Executive Director&quot will mandate that the students must express themselves with 37 pieces of flair subject to administration approval, and Mike Judge's version of reality will be validated.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

136 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The Silent Treatment: A Day in the Life of a Student in �No Excuses� Land [View all] HiPointDem Dec 2012 OP

Edufascism. Great at producing critical thinkers. NOT.... Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #1

I don't know how much good critical thinking is without... Recursion Dec 2012 #4

I agree. But silently marching in lockstep.. Not the best of ideas in education... Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #7

Yeah, I think it's a sad day when teaching kids self-discipline feels "fascist" Recursion Dec 2012 #12

Enforcing silence at the bus stop is "teaching self discipline"? Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #14

What part of it bothers you? Being quiet on the bus? Recursion Dec 2012 #17

It's the whole set up. Shutting up BEFORE getting on the bus. Having a predetermined greeting for Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #19

It's THE MAN, man! They're trying to keep these kids down! Make them conform, man! Recursion Dec 2012 #26

Poor dirty hippie kids! You have to pound some sense into them, or they won't march in lock step Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #29

They aren't marching, they exit the bus by row Recursion Dec 2012 #32

Personal taste. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #34

There's "Discipline" and then there's "repression" Scootaloo Dec 2012 #126

I wonder if this is what the Obama girls do at their school. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #9

Sidwell Friends is not SLANT Recursion Dec 2012 #13

"unless they have the floor". children at this school do not get to "have the floor". i doubt HiPointDem Dec 2012 #16

Well, yes they do. They are asked questions by the teacher. That gives them the floor. They can also Recursion Dec 2012 #22

Let's compare: HiPointDem Dec 2012 #28

Yes, the children of the 1% have all sorts of interesting questions... Recursion Dec 2012 #30

Irrelevant. The kids at sidwell friends aren't schooled like the students in the OP. Not at all. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #36

KINDERGARTNERS should have the opportunity for free-form answers calling for independent thought pnwmom Dec 2012 #87

Programming elementary school students into being little robots would be horrifying Recursion Dec 2012 #88

That is what is happening here. The students are expected to give scripted replies pnwmom Dec 2012 #92

You're acting like that's all that happens at the school Recursion Dec 2012 #93

is this your proposal or something? how do you know about classes they haven't described? HiPointDem Dec 2012 #97

Because as I repeatedly said my sister taught at a school like this Recursion Dec 2012 #98

that school is not *this* school, & i'm quite aware of kipp, another prison school chain for black HiPointDem Dec 2012 #99

Learning to communicate WITH SPOKEN LANGUAGE is a huge part of what pnwmom Dec 2012 #86

Students respond with an enthusiastic, �Yes, I�m ready to learn today. I can�t wait to learn somethi Recursion Dec 2012 #2

"near-silence" = silence except for scripted answers to canned questions. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #3

Yep! LeftofObama Dec 2012 #5

So, she will spend 6 hours every school day for the next seven years... Recursion Dec 2012 #8

Let's ask bill gates if his kids are schooled like this. or eli broad's children. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #11

His kids go to an undisclosed private school, so I have no idea what their discipline system is Recursion Dec 2012 #21

How does this routine help concentration or critical thinking? Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #10

How does learning to be quiet and still help concentration? You're joking, right? Recursion Dec 2012 #15

You can learn to control your physical motions and sounds without making a 24/7 routine out of it. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #18

Did you even read the article? They aren't even silent all of the school day, let alone 24/7 Recursion Dec 2012 #20

Yes I did. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #23

Then why do you keep saying "24/7" Recursion Dec 2012 #27

Not silent. Just controlled. "Inner voices" Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #31

Inside voices is for lunch. They play during recess. Recursion Dec 2012 #33

Glad to see that you would agree that extending these rules to recess would be over the top. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #35

you don't know what the hell they do at recess because the article doesn't mention recess. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #45

When did being rude, distracting and loud all of the time become AlexSatan Dec 2012 #56

read the article. if you think this school is about Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #69

And the kids are allowed to speak AlexSatan Dec 2012 #73

You must not have read the same article as me, also, it's not just about the silence, but just as Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #74

First AlexSatan Dec 2012 #77

Fine. Then DU has at least one person who'll send his kids there... Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #80

You dodged the question AlexSatan Dec 2012 #81

They talk at lunch if a staff member allows them to move to 'level 2' as a reward for being HiPointDem Dec 2012 #40

It's even worse than I've first thought... unbelievable Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #42

Here's the schedule, from the original document: HiPointDem Dec 2012 #46

"Enthusiastic." You honestly believe that these little robots are enthusiastic? pnwmom Dec 2012 #89

Just trying to make good little Germans, er, Merikans. unhappycamper Dec 2012 #6

Once again illustrating the advantages of being a charter school. Pholus Dec 2012 #24

How else would they learn facts??!!!! Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #25

BTW I didn't know Foxconn was starting manufacturing training in America yet. nt Pholus Dec 2012 #37

Whew, this is just weird. a la izquierda Dec 2012 #38

It's fairly common for charters. Especially charters for the poor and black. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #41

Did you get that from the picture or her genuinely smiling AlexSatan Dec 2012 #57

lol. that's a model. it's a hypothetical kid in a school that is in the proposal stage. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #76

Prove this claim AlexSatan Dec 2012 #79

When you were a kid, didn't you learn to smile for the camera? pnwmom Dec 2012 #90

read the text. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #94

This text? AlexSatan Dec 2012 #95

read a little further... HiPointDem Dec 2012 #96

Are you positive she doesn't exist? AlexSatan Dec 2012 #101

that girl exists, but she's not a student at this school. because this is a proposal for a charter HiPointDem Dec 2012 #102

Fair enough AlexSatan Dec 2012 #105

Give me a break, okay? a la izquierda Dec 2012 #84

Great AlexSatan Dec 2012 #100

du rec. nt xchrom Dec 2012 #39

I don't know what to think about this. It goes too far. I wouldn't want a child of mind in that Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #43

Perhaps your perceptions have changed since you were a child? Fumesucker Dec 2012 #47

Not at all. School wasn't quiet when I was a child. But we were required NOT to speak during class.. Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #49

I have three grandkids and I'm in their schools fairly regularly Fumesucker Dec 2012 #53

Maybe it was just the school where I went. It's disadvantaged, which was why there were Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #109

My kids would have loved it AlexSatan Dec 2012 #59

I went to a school similar to Radner's. And it was nothing like this school. pnwmom Dec 2012 #91

Well, it was a girl's school. So there's one noise factor not present. nt Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #112

And it wasn't overcrowded. Overcrowded classes are too noisy pnwmom Dec 2012 #115

I was allowed more freedom in basic training than this. hobbit709 Dec 2012 #44

Sir, yes sir! n/t Fumesucker Dec 2012 #48

Coast Guard or merchant marines? NT AlexSatan Dec 2012 #58

Air Farce 70-73 hobbit709 Dec 2012 #62

Things must have gotten a lot tougher in the 80's then AlexSatan Dec 2012 #63

At least we were allowed to have conversations in the mess hall. hobbit709 Dec 2012 #65

We weren't AlexSatan Dec 2012 #67

I can finally articulate why this is a pathetically stupid idea. It's not the silence... Pholus Dec 2012 #50

That also bothers me more than the silence. gkhouston Dec 2012 #51

I agree with you completely. Odin2005 Dec 2012 #52

+1. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #55

Did you ever consider that coercion isn't necessary AlexSatan Dec 2012 #60

Yeah, the ones who would make horrendous bosses, execrable co-workers and lying subordinates Fumesucker Dec 2012 #64

wow. Safe to say you have never worked with professionals AlexSatan Dec 2012 #66

Someone who has been trained only to say what others wish to hear is useless Fumesucker Dec 2012 #71

Wrong AlexSatan Dec 2012 #72

Primary school is not and should not be boot camp and children are not slaves Fumesucker Dec 2012 #75

Learning methods are learning methods AlexSatan Dec 2012 #78

You have your kids in a school like this? Fumesucker Dec 2012 #82

Nope, but I would for two of them AlexSatan Dec 2012 #83

The amount of degrees between the Socratic Method to a mere Pavlovian response LanternWaste Dec 2012 #106

Sigh AlexSatan Dec 2012 #108

If you'd read the article you'd know these are "would-be" children in a "proposed" new school. Pholus Dec 2012 #111

So then how do they seem like "robots"? NT AlexSatan Dec 2012 #113

The arrogance of filling in the child's responses that way is either Pholus Dec 2012 #117

It is a greeting AlexSatan Dec 2012 #118

So what do YOU think should be done if the kid doesn't respond appropriately? Pholus Dec 2012 #119

Sure there should be a consequence AlexSatan Dec 2012 #120

As you just demonstrated, substandard education has consequences. Pholus Dec 2012 #122

If you had bothered reading the article AlexSatan Dec 2012 #123

Wow, I can feel those hot tears of shame hitting your screen from over here! Pholus Dec 2012 #124

Talk about a lack of education. AlexSatan Dec 2012 #125

Oh, so I said it because I didn't say it explicitly. Gotcha.... Pholus Dec 2012 #127

Oh, now I did explicitly state this once but apparently you only hear things I didn't say. Pholus Dec 2012 #128

Then you not only AlexSatan Dec 2012 #129

Ahhhh, yes I guess I didn't explicitly say what my reviews actually say. Pholus Dec 2012 #131

And now you got me reinterpreting Richilieu Pholus Dec 2012 #132

Twist and spin all you want AlexSatan Dec 2012 #134

Dude, this thing was over LONG ago and you lost. Pholus Dec 2012 #135

This is so sad. AlexSatan Dec 2012 #136

No, I KNOW it isn't necessary. But your educorp doesn't get that it's better if it is spontaneous. Pholus Dec 2012 #110

The forced "pep rallies" that Walmart workers attend come to mind. Lars39 Dec 2012 #61

+100000 The creepy chanting is what got to me when I read the OP riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #68

*Sigh* Music Man Dec 2012 #54

Hey, if it's good enough for Paris Island... Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #70

And most of the attendees there couldn't wait to escape it. Ikonoklast Dec 2012 #85

That's *Parris* Island. Brigid Dec 2012 #121

It shows that I never read, but only heard the name in movies, doesn't it? Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #133

Mass-brainwashing. n/t backscatter712 Dec 2012 #103

A disciplined classroom is one thing. hifiguy Dec 2012 #104

The canned responses and greetings are what creep me out Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #107

But what about socialization? Tsiyu Dec 2012 #114

Creepy and extremely disturbing. woo me with science Dec 2012 #116

Sounds like they're a lot less interested in learning... regnaD kciN Dec 2012 #130