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H2O Man

(79,045 posts)
Wed Dec 11, 2024, 09:51 PM Dec 2024

Defining Homicide & Murder [View all]

" Whoever hates his brother is a murderer" -- John 3:15


The above quote was my late friend Rubin "Hurricane" Carter's favorite in the last five years of his life. I am using it in hopes of having a conversation on what people think defines "murder," rather than to be preachy. For twenty years of his life, Rubin was a convicted triple murderer. Two months after the violent crime, the lead investigator referred to Rubin and his co-defendant as "ni__ers, Muslims, animals, and murders." (NY Times; 9-27-74)

Perhaps the lead investigator had the modus operandi in mind. The two murderers used a shotgun and a pistol to kill the people in the bar. A year earlier, Malcolm X was murdered by two men, with a shotgun and a pistol, with the leader coming from Trenton, NJ. Two of the men picked up the night of the triple murder -- who failed polygraphs and were incarcerated for a time -- were NOI members, connected with the on-going competition for control of the local bars and the money made on "the numbers." (As Malcolm noted in his autobiography, a great deal of money was made on vice.)

Rubin's conviction was eventually overturned by the federal courts. A few years after Rubin's death, the actual gunman Rubin was accused of being confessed to the crime on his death bed, identifying the other man as well. They were the two men that I mentioned in the above paragraph. Yet today, on internet boxing forums, I frequently read posts calling Rubin a murderer.

Thus, there are many definitions of murder and murderers. There is the legal definition, which includes murder as one type of homicide. There are a variety of opinions in the general public. On this very forum, for instance, a friend told me a person cannot be called a "murderer" if they were not convicted in a court of law. That would exclude the two men who slaughtered three people in the Paterson, NJ bar, something I disagree with. And there is Rubin, who in order to win his freedom, recognized he had to go inside himself to find that which is above the law.

Is Kyle Rittenhouse a murderer? He was charged with homicide, but a jury deemed him "not guilty." I suspect that many forum members disagree. How about Chris Kyle? The popularity of the 2014 movie "American Sniper" suggest many considered him a hero. I'm not sure that killing 200 Iraqi citizens opposed to the bush/Cheney invasion was heroic. That would tend to mean that bush and Cheney were heroic, by association.

In our country, states tend to have three levels of homicide: murder, manslaughter, and justifiable. Both first and second degree murder cover intentional acts. For sake of keeping this essay shorter than I find interesting, I'll skip over preterintentional killing and/or manslaughter. There are also at least seven types of murder covered by federal law. (There may be more, but I'm dealing with a head cold, feel sick as shit, and thus my mind isn't at the reduced peak usually associated with old age. But I count seven. And international law is a whole different kettle of fish, and I tend to be a vegetarian while suffering from a cold.)

It is interesting that the general public appears split on the case of the insurance CEO. Some think it was a justifiable homicide in a class war. Many recognize it was murder, do not approve of it, but do not have sympathy for the victim. And many think it was a brutal murder with zero justification. By NYS law, the young man will be prosecuted for murder, and almost certainly be found guilty.

I think the case can be made that the top levels of the insurance industry might be charged with manslaughter -- the unintentional killing of human beings without malice aforethought -- when they mistake human beings as mere statistics. They are as intoxicated by money as any drunk driver in a fatal crash.

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Defining Homicide & Murder [View all] H2O Man Dec 2024 OP
would suspect that most of us can find several things to both agree, and disagree, with here stopdiggin Dec 2024 #1
Thanks! H2O Man Dec 2024 #2
Yes. You're absolutely right. stopdiggin Dec 2024 #3
Interesting. H2O Man Dec 2024 #4
Get well soon malaise Dec 2024 #16
Thank you! H2O Man Dec 2024 #23
There are legal definitions and personal usage. Happy Hoosier Dec 2024 #6
Exactly. H2O Man Dec 2024 #8
And I do not consider Rittenhouse a murderer stopdiggin Dec 2024 #10
Knock yerself out.... Happy Hoosier Dec 2024 #17
on the other hand you're the one that drug the Rittenhouse name stopdiggin Dec 2024 #18
Actually, I'm not.... Happy Hoosier Dec 2024 #19
Thus, when asked H2O Man Dec 2024 #26
Oops. That would be my bad then. stopdiggin Dec 2024 #32
No. H2O Man Dec 2024 #25
OK. I missed that one. My bad there. stopdiggin Dec 2024 #31
Right. H2O Man Dec 2024 #24
You cannot put the fox in charge of the hen house and then put all of the blame on the fox. DontBelieveEastisEas Dec 2024 #5
My daughter lives in Europe. H2O Man Dec 2024 #7
The reality, is, of course, that it cost her more than $26. Happy Hoosier Dec 2024 #20
Right. H2O Man Dec 2024 #22
But corporations are people, too! EmmaLee E Dec 2024 #33
Yes. H2O Man Dec 2024 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author dalton99a Dec 2024 #9
Right. H2O Man Dec 2024 #12
The 'next Luigi' is watching... Jack Valentino Dec 2024 #11
I saw coverage H2O Man Dec 2024 #13
Defining murder Mike 03 Dec 2024 #14
Very good! H2O Man Dec 2024 #27
Another great OP malaise Dec 2024 #15
Thank you! H2O Man Dec 2024 #28
Luigi's case is justifiable homicide in my opinion. Saoirse9 Dec 2024 #21
Interesting. H2O Man Dec 2024 #29
Very good point Saoirse9 Dec 2024 #35
+1 leftstreet Dec 2024 #37
A friend rendered aid to someone seriously injured on the street Easterncedar Dec 2024 #30
Your friend re-enacted H2O Man Dec 2024 #36
I see that. A small door that hope might appear through. Easterncedar Dec 2024 #38
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