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napoleon_in_rags

(3,992 posts)
79. Yeah, let me explain it.
Thu Dec 15, 2011, 01:06 AM
Dec 2011

First of all, one very simple up front thing you need to see right now is that the only political game in town is THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY. So the question is not yet whether Ron Paul is the best guy to lead the country, the question people are talking about now is who among the Republican candidates is the best to lead the country should he get elected. Its fine, as a progressive, to disagree with Paul - but you should be willing to say, in this context, which candidate you prefer: Newt? Perry?

So the next question is why are people from a broad section of political backgrounds supporting Paul in the context of this question? The answer is twofold:

1) A recent poll shows that 50% of self identified American leftists say they fear "big government" as the biggest threat, while 30 something percent fear "big business". This has been twisted in the media to say that OWS is out of touch, but deeper polling would show those same Americans who fear "big government" support OWS. So what's it about? I'll tell you one thing, their focus isn't on Frank-Dodd or anything like that, its about CIVIL LIBERTIES. Americans aren't afraid of congress passing legislature to ban insider trading amongst its members, they are afraid of of legislation like [a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012"]
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012[/a], which
"codifies[5] the President's authority to indefinitely detain terrorism suspects, including American citizens, without trial as defined in Title X" Violating Habeus Corpus, and codifying into law the cartoonish situation where Americans who see missing children on milk cartons must wonder if they were disappeared by criminals or the military, because in the end there is no way to tell them apart, no way to verify who has been detained. The [a href="http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00218#top"]voting record[/a] tells a familiar story, the majority of Dems voting for it, and in that handful of names in nay, "Paul (R-KY)", the son asserting the father's civil liberties values. So it feels good to stand up for him in that regard.

2) A growing number of Americans, right and left, are sick of pundit culture. We know America is now, and has been for awhile, teetering on the brink and we see it all around us. But except for a few sources, all we get when we turn on TV looking for information is pundits opining about how Ron Paul is the "crazy uncle" at Thanksgiving dinner who says things that make people uncomfortable, and other feel-good reductions. Yet we are increasingly aware that the situation America is facing is in fact quite uncomfortable, with almost nobody willing to talk about it. Instead, we see people opining about the so called "intelligence" of people who are "politically adept" enough to tell us what we want to hear, totally disregarding the fact that when they are alone in a room full of lobbyists they will do the same, and use their intelligence to happily abandon us for the money they are offered. There is a growing sense that it is only real men and women of unwavering principle who can get anything done, despite how the punditry despises them for saying "akward" things. This sense has started in the grassroots right, but is spreading to the left as well. In fact Newt Gingrich's recent rise to leadership can be directly attributed to his immigration comments, carefully calculated to defy conservative orthodoxy after he observed the positive crowd responses to Ron Paul defying conservative orthodoxy on ending the war on drugs. People are sick of being told what somebody thinks they want to hear, they want to somebody who stands by their own beliefs, to the extent they can't be bought or sold by pressure in Washington. Its been the great mistake of the Democratic party that they have let their men of strong emotion and principle, like Grayson, like Kucinich, (surpised Sanders isn't in this list) be abandoned to attacks while they exult the "intelligence" of people who deftly avoid the horrible burden of principled action. Had they defended these men more strongly, perhaps members of the left who value unwavering commitment to principles wouldn't be looking across the isle to find an example of it in a man with different principles than their own.


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Ayn Rand. comipinko Dec 2011 #1
lots of people have one major issue that they dwell on rurallib Dec 2011 #2
You’re right … Cigar11 Dec 2011 #3
It would be like having a beer with that guy in the Tom Rush song GoneOffShore Dec 2011 #72
Including the war on drugs. DocMac Dec 2011 #5
And the "liberals" that DO support him think socialist_n_TN Dec 2011 #74
For my brother, who is generally not insane, but is an avid Paul supporter... Ed Suspicious Dec 2011 #4
Because they aren't reading the fine print. AtomicKitten Dec 2011 #6
I think there's a difference between support catabryna Dec 2011 #7
In this sense, I speak of "support," not just "agree with." As I mentioned in my OP, I agree with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #14
I did read your entire post... catabryna Dec 2011 #22
Yep, I think many thinking people "agree" with Ron Paul. truedelphi Dec 2011 #50
I could never support a bigot no matter what other issue that I may be in agreement with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #67
I voted for Obama, and I would have voted for Clinton if she won the nomination. ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #77
And Ron Paul is even MORE of a bigot towards the LGBT community. Next... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #99
I was addressing your comment ZombieHorde Dec 2011 #112
Support = "vote for" Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #114
Please cease and desist from comparing MoRon Paul to DK or progressives MattBaggins Dec 2011 #93
+1! Excellent!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #100
Not true. Republicrat059 Dec 2011 #116
2 reasons Ratty Dec 2011 #8
The ones that live around here all have one thing in common. They are all racist asscarrots NNN0LHI Dec 2011 #9
I'm inclined to agree wholeheartedly because even when you point out his bigotry, Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #37
War, occupation, and drugs Seedersandleechers Dec 2011 #10
Convictions can be poor measurements Lefergus70 Dec 2011 #86
The old saying "politics make strange bedfellows" applies The Genealogist Dec 2011 #11
Because they think they are liberals but they are really libertarians frazzled Dec 2011 #12
Yeah, I think that they are actually modern day Libertarians but not Libertarians in the Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #16
Anarchists really don't care what you do in your own home. harmonicon Dec 2011 #88
Well then Ron Paul is not an anarchist because he does care what you do in your own home... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #89
I know that. That was my point. harmonicon Dec 2011 #106
Got it! +1 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #111
you can't be a liberal and support Ron Paul Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #13
"You can't be a liberal and support Ron Paul." Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #17
agreed Motown_Johnny Dec 2011 #20
It's similar to asking "How can you support Democrats, with all the wars, War on Drugs, etc."? Romulox Dec 2011 #15
You are correct! ctwayne Dec 2011 #81
A false perception of concurrence on some positions. Viking12 Dec 2011 #18
so if you don't support someone overall, they can't be right about ANYTHING? Did you take critical yurbud Dec 2011 #64
Where did I say that? Viking12 Dec 2011 #101
Because they are fuckin ignorant? johncoby2 Dec 2011 #19
Maybe if our party would get with the fucking program on personal liberty- ending the war on drugs- Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #21
Two words: Dennis Kucinich Ratty Dec 2011 #23
Meh. I've gone in and out in terms of Kooch. I actually had a phase in 2008 where I was backing him. Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #25
See my Post #26. I agree 100% Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #27
I think I agree with you Ratty Dec 2011 #30
Yes, if the choice is between Paul or Kucinich, obviously Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #36
In my view, Ron Paul is also morally bankrupt if he is (1) a bigot; (2) believes that a private Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #44
if you think I'm going to defend Ron Paul or those views, you've got the wrong guy Warren DeMontague Dec 2011 #45
I hear you. No, we're on the same side. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #49
Yes. The other problem with Ron Paul is that he is NOT as principled as everyone seems to believe. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #40
Exactly! I supported Kucinich in 2008, but then he started to get crazy on me after that. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #26
there were several people hoping for a Kucinich/Paul ticket back in 2008 fishwax Dec 2011 #80
I would think Aerows Dec 2011 #24
Have I mentioned Ron Paul isn't anti-war? ProSense Dec 2011 #28
THANK YOU! redqueen Dec 2011 #47
Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #58
stick to the facts Republicrat059 Dec 2011 #117
What is the mystery? Vattel Dec 2011 #29
The problem with your assessment is that Ron Paul is NOT really for civil liberties. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #41
I guess I disagree to some extent. Vattel Dec 2011 #56
OK, but he is not consistent which is the point I was making. And he is a bigot! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #66
I agree with that! Vattel Dec 2011 #73
His positions are a little more nuanced than that. Galle Dec 2011 #75
The "state issue" is a cop out. We don't let President Obama get away with Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #102
Well... Galle Dec 2011 #107
Perhaps, but I still think that Ron Paul is being a bit disingenuous here, just as Obama is. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #110
Because they haven't seen this AlbertCat Dec 2011 #31
"I'll haunt your prostate!" progressoid Dec 2011 #46
Because (like my Mom) they don't know about the racism, KamaAina Dec 2011 #32
You forgot the "batshit crazy". n/t gkhouston Dec 2011 #84
When asked for a comment, a spokesperson for the local chapter of "Jews for Hitler" stated ... 11 Bravo Dec 2011 #33
Krugman: ProSense Dec 2011 #34
Thanks, ProSense! This should be the *COMPELLING* argument! The fact that his ideas are not only Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #43
There are a multitude of reasons to support Paul as the Republican Nominee Uncle Joe Dec 2011 #35
They are NOT liberals n/t librechik Dec 2011 #38
I agree. There's no way they're liberals. redqueen Dec 2011 #48
I think they (and I) agree with him on certain points (war, drugs, etc.) but aren't aware of his gateley Dec 2011 #39
NO LIBERAL would vote for Ron Paul. NONE. FarLeftFist Dec 2011 #42
the point of OP is to put stink on the few good ideas Ron Paul has by setting up this straw man yurbud Dec 2011 #63
Wrong! I'm trying to understand the blatant contradiction in ideas. And I've already Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #68
are you sure you aren't confusing ''support'' with ''agree with him on some issues''? yurbud Dec 2011 #51
I can say Hitler had a way with khakis without supporting his anti-Semitism or wishing he won WWII. yurbud Dec 2011 #52
Maybe he's not serious but I could agree with this proposal by Paul Uncle Joe Dec 2011 #54
They are Progressive Libertarians that value liberalism over DNC values. OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2011 #53
Thanks! I made this point earlier. Love your signature pic, BTW! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #69
Do you realize that if we continue as we are going, we are ALL in jeopardy? George Glass Dec 2011 #55
A Libertarian sulphurdunn Dec 2011 #57
simple. they don't take the time to read his whole platform. Javaman Dec 2011 #59
It's not that you don't understand- it's that they dont Dragonbreathp9d Dec 2011 #60
WOW! That's an interesting take on this! Thanks!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #70
why not? mdmc Dec 2011 #61
But this is *DEMOCRATIC* Underground. Should we be supporting ANY Republican, especially one Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #71
One-issue-ism. Odin2005 Dec 2011 #62
Epidemic of temporary insanity? That's how I explain my Mother's current infatuation. REP Dec 2011 #65
Tunnel vision. gtar100 Dec 2011 #76
His brand of Libertarianism intersects w/progressivism. Also intersects with racism & whatever you DirkGently Dec 2011 #78
Yeah, let me explain it. napoleon_in_rags Dec 2011 #79
Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #82
I just read that Obama has a 84% approval rating amongst liberals madokie Dec 2011 #83
Because of his attitude about WAR. Stevepol Dec 2011 #85
Ron Paul is like a doctor who can diagnose a disease correctly... MrScorpio Dec 2011 #87
I thought he was neutral on gay rights and abortion? mainer Dec 2011 #90
See my response, Post #102 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #103
I don't think it's that liberals support him. I think he just doesn't inspire disgust mainer Dec 2011 #91
This message was self-deleted by its author LaurenG Dec 2011 #92
Because he's only HALF crazy. PassingFair Dec 2011 #94
Are The Paul's Really Libertarians? DallasNE Dec 2011 #95
See my response, Post #16 Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #104
A suggestion Bragi Dec 2011 #108
Thanks! I'll try that. :) Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #109
Support No, agree with him on some issues Yes Sherman A1 Dec 2011 #96
See my response upthread. I made this distinction earlier, and in my OP... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #105
Ron Paul is an Ugly Little Troll unionworks Dec 2011 #97
Do they? Laelth Dec 2011 #98
sirota has a soft spot for him, that's for sure dionysus Dec 2011 #119
I only support Paul thescreaminghead Dec 2011 #113
But he only holds this view because he hates government and regulation! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #115
yesterday, sirota was filling in for randi and spent most of the show kissing ron pauls ass. dionysus Dec 2011 #118
Still angry at Sirota for his shots at Melissa Harris Perry. At any rate, I podcast Randi every day, Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #120
Message deleted by the DU Administrators Plume Dec 2011 #121
Huh. Not buying it. He wants to repeal Roe v Wade. PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #123
So the 6th Ammendment doesn't matter to you? hyacinth house Dec 2011 #122
I'm asking a fairly straightforward question. Has nothing to do with me or my own views. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #125
You mean why some Ron Paul supporters call themselves liberal? Orsino Dec 2011 #124
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