General Discussion

renate

(13,776 posts)

115. how about everybody gets to have the guns that were current at the time of the 2nd amendment

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 05:36 AM

Dec 2012

Everything after that is up for discussion. (I personally would prefer to get rid of even those.)

Mental illness plus guns are not a good mix indeed, although I don't think it's just mentally ill people who are the problem, and they are probably more likely to hurt themselves than anybody else. It's PEOPLE and guns that aren't a good mix, people who are pissed off or who are assholes generally. Mentally ill people aren't, from what I have read, any more violent than anybody else--but people who are mentally ill (and I include in "mentally ill" the seeing-red anger that any human being is subject to) but violent don't have the restraints on their behavior that more composed people might.

The second amendment really needs to be revisited in an historical context. The guys who wrote it could never have imagined guns that could fire off 900 rounds per minute. That simply is not the kind of well-regulated militia they envisioned.

Edited because I didn't know the wording of the second amendment.

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Mentally ill people.. [View all] rainlillie Dec 2012 OP

I think you have touched on the heart of the problem. kentuck Dec 2012 #1

The woman who bought the guns in this incident was not mentally ill. Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #50

How do you know she was not mentally ill? marshall Dec 2012 #67

Exactly. There has been no indication she had mental illness. nt Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #71

And thus none that she did not marshall Dec 2012 #80

Presumption of innocence. I presume you are sane, since there is no evidence you are not. Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #120

Reports are now looking like the mother had her own inner demons marshall Dec 2012 #119

I'll look for those. So far I've read accounts of her by friends in the neighborhood... Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #121

I worry about statements like "signs of mental illness" hfojvt Dec 2012 #91

Medication, therapy, counseling, etc. should be free and confidential for all ck4829 Dec 2012 #2

A good mental health care system is going to be extremely expensive Fumesucker Dec 2012 #3

Corporate Profits Come Easier When Based On Fear Than Compassion And Assistance cantbeserious Dec 2012 #5

And treatment requires trained professionals and expensive medications. beac Dec 2012 #43

Bingo! n/t Helen Reddy Dec 2012 #69

Everybody suffers with that one ck4829 Dec 2012 #6

Sadly, you are right. nt raccoon Dec 2012 #40

You're right. October Dec 2012 #77

Yes, yes, yes! nt snappyturtle Dec 2012 #4

Yes, indeed. KarenS Dec 2012 #7

I can't understand why Lanza's mother would keep all those guns in the house when valerief Dec 2012 #8

I'm going to take a wild leap here and speculate that she thought she had secured them adequately slackmaster Dec 2012 #11

Just what John2 Dec 2012 #18

There is no information here that indicates that she was going around armed, or that the vest... slackmaster Dec 2012 #19

Maybe you heard John2 Dec 2012 #45

I'm sorry John2, you seem confused. It's well established that the guns belonged to her. slackmaster Dec 2012 #51

And now we John2 Dec 2012 #72

I just heard that too. I've taught many people to shoot, but I know a few people who I would not... slackmaster Dec 2012 #74

Now you, John2 Dec 2012 #83

Thanks for the kind word John2. I regard myself as a "white hat" gun owner. slackmaster Dec 2012 #94

Seeing as how she was liberalmike27 Dec 2012 #75

Thank you. Very well said. My dad and granddad were both veterans as well, mbperrin Dec 2012 #100

He wasn't a child. llmart Dec 2012 #65

This message was self-deleted by its author slackmaster Dec 2012 #66

Excellent point. In_The_Wind Dec 2012 #12

So you John2 Dec 2012 #23

I think ~ she didn't think In_The_Wind Dec 2012 #28

Now you, John2 Dec 2012 #62

According to some accounts, she took him to the firing range quite regularly where they both mbperrin Dec 2012 #99

I don't understand why these people don't leave such weapons AT THE FIRING RANGE. valerief Dec 2012 #111

Because for too many, these guns are parts of their identity, their very bodies. mbperrin Dec 2012 #112

Why can't they just have a simple foot fetish instead of a gun fetish if they need a damn fetish? valerief Dec 2012 #113

Absolutely! mbperrin Dec 2012 #122

Cut out medicaid or medicare and see what happens. kitt6 Dec 2012 #9

Imho, this issue has three legs Sienna86 Dec 2012 #10

This country has regressed when it comes to mental health. juajen Dec 2012 #13

It's almost like a third rail issue. no_hypocrisy Dec 2012 #14

Another good point you bring up Sienna86 Dec 2012 #15

That exactly was the case in my example. no_hypocrisy Dec 2012 #17

What would social services do for him? Temp housing in a shelter? bettyellen Dec 2012 #49

Ideally lifelong commitment to a facility like when a criminal is adjudicated no_hypocrisy Dec 2012 #59

I don't think they commit anyone "life long" until after a heinous criminal act- the usual is to bettyellen Dec 2012 #81

And that's the problem. no_hypocrisy Dec 2012 #82

parents have no options except to kick them out. it's sick. bettyellen Dec 2012 #84

From what I have heard - the mother owned the guns. Apparently they were easilly accessible. geckosfeet Dec 2012 #16

Yep! Mentally Ill people and guns — not a good mix brush Dec 2012 #20

agree with your viewpoints northoftheborder Dec 2012 #78

how about everybody gets to have the guns that were current at the time of the 2nd amendment renate Dec 2012 #115

..and can only express themselves using 18th C. technology. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #116

Agreed brush Dec 2012 #117

I have had it with this mass bigotry in defense of your precious guns BainsBane Dec 2012 #21

I think an act of mass murder is ipso facto proof that a person has some form of mental illness slackmaster Dec 2012 #22

Let's not talk symptoms cause you won't like where that goes. Pholus Dec 2012 #27

Or maybe an indication of a strenthening economy slackmaster Dec 2012 #33

Oh yes, that was the reason.... Pholus Dec 2012 #87

I don't dispute that there are some paranoid people who buy guns for weird reasons out there slackmaster Dec 2012 #95

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #104

I think you John2 Dec 2012 #31

Thank you for that fine example of authentic frontier gibberish slackmaster Dec 2012 #34

He was a violent murderer BainsBane Dec 2012 #38

Now you are suggesting that the killer's mother, a victim, was mentally ill because she owned guns slackmaster Dec 2012 #42

good god BainsBane Dec 2012 #53

I would have wanted you... Helen Reddy Dec 2012 #76

Thanks! nt BainsBane Dec 2012 #106

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #32

Your hero Reagan closed down the loony bins BainsBane Dec 2012 #47

Thank you, well said! n/t Helen Reddy Dec 2012 #73

Thank you. Jamastiene Dec 2012 #85

Stop Teaching Gun Violence! Maineman Dec 2012 #24

Unfortunately for your thesis jeff47 Dec 2012 #107

Lack of access to good mental health care susanr516 Dec 2012 #25

Great... 99Forever Dec 2012 #26

My solution is very simple. I keep all firearms securely locked up in a big, sturdy safe. slackmaster Dec 2012 #29

Wonderful. 99Forever Dec 2012 #36

I would support a federal law mandating safe storage slackmaster Dec 2012 #37

It isn't you or your methods that worry me. 99Forever Dec 2012 #52

Good luck getting the legislatures of 38 states to buy in on that one slackmaster Dec 2012 #55

So we just let the murdering scum win? 99Forever Dec 2012 #58

I presented a rational, sane, realistic, workable idea here, and you've attempted to trash it slackmaster Dec 2012 #60

No, you didn't. 99Forever Dec 2012 #68

So, you don't think a madatory safe storage law is a good idea? slackmaster Dec 2012 #70

Don't put words in my mouth... 99Forever Dec 2012 #79

I'm trying to determine why you denied that I presented a constructive idea slackmaster Dec 2012 #97

Mandatory safe storage is a good idea, but how many can afford an expensive safe? kwassa Dec 2012 #101

That's why I think there should be some kind of tax incentive for people who buy robust safes slackmaster Dec 2012 #102

Guns are already denied based on income jeff47 Dec 2012 #108

I guess I'll never get that shoulder-fired rocket, then. kwassa Dec 2012 #109

No, that's banned by several laws. jeff47 Dec 2012 #118

it's begining to look SemperEadem Dec 2012 #30

Yes, I do agree` silhouete2 Dec 2012 #35

I would probably be defined as 'mentally ill.' Are_grits_groceries Dec 2012 #39

You have made a good decision. I know several people with depression who have done the same. slackmaster Dec 2012 #44

The problem is diagnosing the illness. Most mentally ill persons show no outward signs. My brother jwirr Dec 2012 #41

I think indications are that the murderer in this case was in fact diagnosed with a personality... slackmaster Dec 2012 #46

And his mother still bought the guns for him? I wonder what her diagnosis was? jwirr Dec 2012 #48

Circular reasoning, and not very good slackmaster Dec 2012 #54

I heard that they were all registered in her name - The Ed Show. jwirr Dec 2012 #61

Yes, they were registered in her name because they belonged to her slackmaster Dec 2012 #63

the problem is getting treatment before violence happens. bettyellen Dec 2012 #56

That's a very big problem, and people generally have a right to refuse treatment slackmaster Dec 2012 #57

yes. and treatment is inadequate at best. bettyellen Dec 2012 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author slackmaster Dec 2012 #96

as have I. when you see such ignorance about it here, it gets easier to understand bettyellen Dec 2012 #98

Are you saying you advocate forcing mentally ill people to carry special ID cards Jamastiene Dec 2012 #93

I did not say that and I would not. I was pointing out that there is not way to identify anyone jwirr Dec 2012 #105

Some insurance, if not all of them mecherosegarden Dec 2012 #64

Reagan threw them all out of the institutions onto the street. Insurance won't pay, or I Dustlawyer Dec 2012 #86

I take it you think all mentally ill people are violent and all mass shooters Jamastiene Dec 2012 #89

You can take it that way, but you'd be wrong! rainlillie Dec 2012 #114

some years ago (the 70's) we went with community options dembotoz Dec 2012 #90

Unfortunately, the AMA is raising all copays/coinsurance on the most fragile cbdo2007 Dec 2012 #92

Fuck that. Zoeisright Dec 2012 #103

mentally ill covers a large spectrum. someone with anxiety disorder or ADHD probably not shooting up dionysus Dec 2012 #110

The people in GD who are making these absolutist, draconian, ignorant decistions for all Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #123

Yes, this sort of thing can be obtained legally: Warren DeMontague Dec 2012 #124