General Discussion

morningfog

(18,115 posts)

68. My argument is thougher sentencing has never been a deterrent.

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:39 AM

Dec 2012

You have a real problem with avoiding the issue of the thread with red herrings. Try to follow.

Laws do work and help. Limitations on the types and numbers of guns legally available for purchase would help. Background checks and waiting periods on ALL firearm purchases. Full registration on all guns owned would help. New laws imposing criminal or civil liability on gun owners if their weapon was used in a crime would help. Those types of laws would help reduce the number of guns and reduce the number of unsecured guns.

Here is the distinction, I'll make it simple for you (although I know will dismiss it, ignore it or toss out another red herring):

The reforms I mentioned and that have been discussed on DU help to secure guns and restrict the flow. It would encourage those those who are law abiding citizens to secure their guns. It would make access by those who intend to commit mass murder much harder.

Stricter sentencing laws are never a deterrent. Criminals don't weigh the potential time before committing crimes, usually.

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so whats a reasonable gun control measure [View all] rdking647 Dec 2012 OP

our system is so broken, it doesn't matter what the citizenry wants spanone Dec 2012 #1

Good thing we aren't a democratic republic AlexSatan Dec 2012 #141

Cause a percentage of the money from sales of guns to be dedicated to supporting and shraby Dec 2012 #2

The only person who could put together a reasonable gun control former-republican Dec 2012 #3

Or seeks to live his/her life without the threat of these instruments of death TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #7

We are not going to ban all firearm ownership former-republican Dec 2012 #12

No. Ignorance is always a bad place to legislate from Recursion Dec 2012 #35

Ignorance of what? TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #130

Slap a huge tax on ammo, gun powder etc Greywing Dec 2012 #4

how would you get suck a tax passed rdking647 Dec 2012 #11

That WOULD NOT stop mass shootings. Money was not a factor in the decision!!! n-t Logical Dec 2012 #114

here's a few WooWooWoo Dec 2012 #5

There's nothing wrong with gun shows former-republican Dec 2012 #6

i think I was unclear with that WooWooWoo Dec 2012 #10

How about make it where only dealers can sell at gun shows. former-republican Dec 2012 #14

There is if they don't include background checks for gun buyers. whathehell Dec 2012 #19

All dealers have to use the NICS check for a firearm sale at gun shows former-republican Dec 2012 #28

"Gun shows should be dealer only"....Agree One Hundred Percent. n/t whathehell Dec 2012 #29

Checks are required for all dealer sales, regardless of location ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #51

I have been to many gun shows and have wittnessed randr Dec 2012 #91

YES!!!!!!!! axetogrind Dec 2012 #99

You're going to have some crooked dealers , we can't stop all crime former-republican Dec 2012 #103

The penalty for illegal sales of weapons randr Dec 2012 #113

I feel that way about a lot of crimes former-republican Dec 2012 #120

for instance? randr Dec 2012 #125

pedophilia , anything that involves adults hurting or molesting children former-republican Dec 2012 #127

Agreed--so do we hang illegal gun merchants? randr Dec 2012 #135

from the neck or the thumbs former-republican Dec 2012 #140

Except of course that they provide a loophole to the existing regulations. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #107

I think it's changing former-republican Dec 2012 #124

"background checks that include mental health screenings by professionals" and if a person flunks jody Dec 2012 #64

Licensing and registration for handguns. DanTex Dec 2012 #8

i dont have a problem with that and think it could be passed and pass scotus scrutiny rdking647 Dec 2012 #13

That should have been done long ago , but yes that would be a start former-republican Dec 2012 #16

Hey, we agree on something! DanTex Dec 2012 #18

stop former-republican Dec 2012 #21

What benefits do you believe will come from registering handguns in addition to CCW licensing jody Dec 2012 #70

Registering handguns makes it much harder to be a straw purchaser, for example. DanTex Dec 2012 #71

Registering firearms carries with it the threat government will use that list to confiscate them. nt jody Dec 2012 #81

So, you are even against registering firearms? morningfog Dec 2012 #84

Actually, the NRA is also opposed to registering firearms. DanTex Dec 2012 #110

That's been the theme but you and I know former-republican Dec 2012 #85

Umm, yeah, I'm not too worried about that. DanTex Dec 2012 #89

My point: to sell a new limitation on firearms you must convince citizens it will not threaten their jody Dec 2012 #96

There are very few people who buy the "registration leads to confiscation" talking point. DanTex Dec 2012 #108

My point is that to sell that law one must convince people. See DU thread below: jody Dec 2012 #112

But the "registration leads to confiscation" crowd is small and extreme enough that DanTex Dec 2012 #115

I've read many of the posts to DU threads about gun-control over the past few days. I haven't read jody Dec 2012 #126

Maybe not this particular shooting, but we can certainly reduce the overall level of gun violence. DanTex Dec 2012 #134

If no one has a proposal that could have prevented this tragedy, then I'm not optimistic that jody Dec 2012 #139

If the government somehow reaches the point that it decides to confiscate weapons ibegurpard Dec 2012 #102

My point is that to sell that law one must convince people. See DU thread below: jody Dec 2012 #109

What it would do is create a data base for BATF or the FBI to make their job easier former-republican Dec 2012 #117

Make bullet boxes that show the results of shooting the way that Australian cigarette packs show... JVS Dec 2012 #9

Greatly limit firepower and deny ownership in many more cases. Scuba Dec 2012 #15

the gunman in ct used a .223 rdking647 Dec 2012 #17

"Firepower" includes not just caliber but the ability to deliver multiple rounds... Scuba Dec 2012 #22

so where dop you draw tha line? rdking647 Dec 2012 #25

I would argue that limits on both are appropriate. Scuba Dec 2012 #42

How about also no private sale of any firearm former-republican Dec 2012 #20

not sure that would pass scotus scrutiny rdking647 Dec 2012 #24

It would have to be passed through state legislature like it did in my state former-republican Dec 2012 #46

Or give them access to NICS checks...and mandate them. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #55

The more I think about that the less I like it former-republican Dec 2012 #61

Not a good idea. Dealers are required to keep paperwork, have a lot to lose if they screw up, etc. Hoyt Dec 2012 #131

Probably, "reasonable" is a gun safety measure rather than gun control Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #23

I agree, except typically, adult members of a household would have access to the gun safe MH1 Dec 2012 #37

Throwing up your hands and saying "well the GOP/NRA will block it anyway" is defeatist Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #38

How about... Bonhomme Richard Dec 2012 #26

uniform gun laws wouldnt work rdking647 Dec 2012 #40

Limit the amount of bullets that can be fired before needing reload Bandit Dec 2012 #27

how would you get that passed??????? rdking647 Dec 2012 #39

With perseverance. Bonhomme Richard Dec 2012 #52

how would a ban like that actually work rdking647 Dec 2012 #66

Maybe start with the larger magazines grandfathered but.... Bonhomme Richard Dec 2012 #118

It's already been done is several states auburngrad82 Dec 2012 #104

A couple ideas: Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #30

Again people completely missing the bloody point Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #33

So are you. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #47

No, it's blatant disingenuousness Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #50

Sorry, but that's rubbish. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #54

Except that it is about "gun control measures to stop mass shootings" Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #60

Nope. That's what YOU insist on reading into every gun thread right now. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #65

yet the idea of preventing mass killings is important to those who are interested in gun control bettyellen Dec 2012 #116

"Spare us" the needless vulgar insults. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #121

if "bullshit" offends you, stop spewing it. it is you who insult DUers intelligence. bettyellen Dec 2012 #128

start by reinstituting the ban on assault weapons auburngrad82 Dec 2012 #105

6 bullets /sec is a fully auto weapon rdking647 Dec 2012 #143

Out of Curiosity... Marengo Dec 2012 #48

Excellent question! Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #87

yes, we should be afraid from doing the right thing samsingh Dec 2012 #31

Weapons of War Apache Crew Chief 65 Dec 2012 #32

make black and chrome firearms illegal... octothorpe Dec 2012 #34

Who the fuck appointed you.. 99Forever Dec 2012 #36

so your not interested in a discussion of whats actually possible???? rdking647 Dec 2012 #43

Exactly. 99Forever Dec 2012 #78

Stop the hate Berserker Dec 2012 #56

Stop the shooting of babies. 99Forever Dec 2012 #67

But someone clearly appointed you to decide what people can discuss and how it can be discussed.... octothorpe Dec 2012 #146

If a firearm is used in a crime, charge the defendant separately for use of a firearm, sentence jody Dec 2012 #41

That is sentencing reform, not gun reform. It will do nothing to ebb the flow of morningfog Dec 2012 #44

If you are correct, your argument means no new law can have any effect on crime. Govt. can only jody Dec 2012 #57

My argument is thougher sentencing has never been a deterrent. morningfog Dec 2012 #68

You say "thougher [sic] sentencing has never been a deterrent." How will jody Dec 2012 #72

Yep. It flew over your head. morningfog Dec 2012 #74

You wrote "Laws do work and help. Limitations on the types and numbers of guns legally available for jody Dec 2012 #76

Re-read it again, with the part you omitted. You are almost there. So close. morningfog Dec 2012 #77

OK your post reveals you can't answer my question. After you've thought about it please post your jody Dec 2012 #79

Well, at least you gave it the old college try! morningfog Dec 2012 #80

No, sometime professors simply give up when a student demonstrates inability to learn. nt jody Dec 2012 #83

As I have with you. You are absolutely hopeless. morningfog Dec 2012 #100

Spider Jerusalem is a gun lobbies dream ... boles13d Dec 2012 #45

"Stole" his mother's guns Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #49

He is not the only one ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #142

Well, since a few of these have involved extended clips nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #53

Governors is the key former-republican Dec 2012 #58

Jan brewer from AZ nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #59

that's her former-republican Dec 2012 #63

the vast majority of hanguns sold in this country are semi austomatics rdking647 Dec 2012 #62

I said it would not happen nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #73

thats why we need to concentrate on what actually could pass rdking647 Dec 2012 #75

Magazine size and expanding the background checks won't pass either nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #93

What is it about internet sales that bother you? aikoaiko Dec 2012 #122

Safe storage. frank380 Dec 2012 #69

We did have a ban on assault weapons at one time randr Dec 2012 #82

the problem with the aw ban was it doesnt work rdking647 Dec 2012 #90

I agree... Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #95

The problem we are facing is enormous randr Dec 2012 #111

What laws do the civilized countries have? Adopt those. nt valerief Dec 2012 #86

like switzerland rdking647 Dec 2012 #94

The issue was laws, not gun ownership. Buh-bye. nt valerief Dec 2012 #98

I'd look into what some other countries do treestar Dec 2012 #88

..with an asterisk Jeff In Milwaukee Dec 2012 #92

The status quo is unreasonable Generic Brad Dec 2012 #97

Reframe the entire issue. Make guns/bullets a part of the war on terror & from there graham4anything Dec 2012 #101

Makes sense, give all authority to the president, seize all means of production, create two jody Dec 2012 #106

So what's a "reasonable" gun control plan? meanit Dec 2012 #119

Cradle to grave tracking and responsibility missingthebigdog Dec 2012 #123

+100000. Heck, the Australians bit the bullet in 1996 -- why not us. Switzerland is another good Hoyt Dec 2012 #132

More than legislation, we need to change the perception of guns in our society -- just like smoking. Hoyt Dec 2012 #129

I'm very anti-gun, BUT if we start banning things we don't like.. rainlillie Dec 2012 #133

How about this: All guns have to carry liability insurance just like cars. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #136

Question. What would rdking647 agree with? Curious. n/t Bonhomme Richard Dec 2012 #137

mandatory registration rdking647 Dec 2012 #144

Oh, BTW, I am not aware of a SINGLE DUER who has advocated for kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #138

Here's an example of exactly that from earlier today slackmaster Dec 2012 #145

The only one I have spotted is somebody who is clearly a gun nut just shitstirring. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #147

Gun safety should be taught in schools TheCowsCameHome Dec 2012 #148