Where is our Democratic leadership?

[Oopsie Daisy]

65. Wrong.

No, I don't find it outrageous that you suggest people be loyal to the party.

My response to that is to let your words speak for themselves. "Demanding blind loyalty, saying that we all operate as uncritical fans cheering on our team, short circuits that important political process." That certainly sounds to me like someone arguing against party loyalty, or defending those who engage in smearing and denigrating the party and our leadership. And sadly, it just gets worse from there. The entire exchange devolves.

I find it outrageous that you accuse others of disloyalty simply because they don't agree with you about party strategy and leadership.

Wrong. I have never said, nor done such a thing. It has nothing at all to do with "agreeing with me about party strategy." People can disagree with me all day long, what do I care? — Instead, I'm pointing out that people are being "disloyal" when they shit on the party and our party's leaders by engaging in, and promoting the LIE that Democrats are (pick one) too old / corrupt / cowards / absent / incompetent / etc. (As this OP is engaging in.)

No, I don't find it outrageous that you are opposed to not voting for Democrats, nor that you speak forcefully in opposition to voting for third-party candidates. You are arguing against things I didn't say.

It's clear that anyone who's arguing in favor of promoting the aforementioned lies, or anyone who defends people who engage in such treachery, is also promoting and defending actions that result in the suppression of support for our party, and the suppression of votes for our candidates. The most recent example of this are the lies of "Genocide Joe" and "Killer Kamala". (Remember?) Those lies suppressed the vote and turned many voters toward third-party candidate/s. And to this very day, we have folks defending and making excuses for people who promoted those lies.

Of course nobody here literally said "let's vote third party." I never made that accusation, did I? — But the consequence of defending those who promote the lies (like the ones described above) rather than calling-out the lies and being truthful — is that it allows those lies to become accepted as being the truth. Anyone who remains silent in the face of the lies and smears hurled at our party, is IMHO, complicit. The same goes for anyone who defends or makes excuses for those who engage in the lies and smears.

I find your suggestion that those with whom you disagree are trying to tear down the party, discourage voters, or are disloyal to be outrageous.

That's a disingenuous statement and clearly it's not what I've said. Instead, by reversing the order it completely changes the meaning of what I've actually done/said. I have never said that people who disagree with me are disloyal. Instead, what I'm saying is that I disagree with —and disapprove of— people who are disloyal to the party by engaging in the aforementioned lies. See the difference?

It is a mistake for anyone to frame this as "disagreeing with me" but (once again, I repeat) the reality is that it's not about me. It's about someone's treachery and disloyalty to the party. When someone tries to redefine actual attacks and smears of Democrats as merely "disagreeing with me" they are promoting a false narrative.

Personally, I find it contemptible for anyone to wrongfully characterize my strong defense of Democrats as being "divisive rhetoric." On the very face of it, it's ridiculous to suggest that wanting unity (by encouraging others to refrain from continually shitting on the party) somehow "hurts the party's chances." The opposite is true.

Frankly, I figure that I may as well be talking with an electric toaster or a chat-gpt bot. I cannot take the contrarian replies seriously any longer. It's like I've fallen into a rabbit hole into some through-the-looking-glass alternate reality where shitting on Democrats is "good" (or just a disagreement with me) and defending Democrats is "bad" (or "divisive rhetoric'').

you just throw around insults and misrepresent the points of view of others.

Oh, spare me, please. Now, that is an example of projection. It's time for everyone to fall-in-line. This is an all-hands-on-deck moment. Do better! We must all rise to the challenge and support the party.

Have a nice day.