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Fire Walk With Me

(38,893 posts)
Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:01 AM Dec 2012

I worry that the mentally ill shall face some of the same "treatment" as did US Muslims after 9/11. [View all]

Last edited Sat Dec 22, 2012, 02:40 PM - Edit history (5)

(Update December 21: "Oh boy...right.....again." Please see the stories at the end beyond the video. We will not be their bogeyman as they seek to expand the market for arms manufacturers.)

Not to that disgusting extent but along the same lines. I do not wish some absolute lumping together of one of the least discussed or understood groups of people in our society. A mainstream media special report last night on the tragedy in Newtown ended with fear-mongering regarding the mentally ill, and made a literal call for people to report oddly-acting "mentally ill" people to the police, even if they say they are joking, to let the police sort it out. I reject this call for distrust, fear, and the further division of the US people and I hope that you will as well. I AM reminded of a banner seen in the film "Brazil" by Terry Gilliam: "Don't suspect your neighbor; turn them in!" Let's not let it get to that. :/

Mental health is a very complex issue and it effects more Americans than given this tragedy, might make some comfortable. There are all levels of illness involved, and proven methods of care. Obviously not all Muslims are terrorists. Not all mentally ill people are dangerous to themselves or others. We are seeing extremes and I encourage people to not make absolute conclusions about all of the people who have varying levels of illness as a result. Please let there be conversation and education instead. Please let it be known that with care and the correct support, there is little "need" for tragedy.

The increasingly for-profit prison industrial complex and the horrific mental wards and asylums are no answer. The problem has been in republicans increasingly slashing budgets for care (Ahnold in California cut mental health budgets 60% in one go, and this was not his only "go" at it). Combine massive lobbying to make guns easily available with enormous cuts to social programs for those who really, really need it and you've got a recipe I daresay they KNOW will lead to violence and destruction (much less the actual costs to cities for emergency care, etc. same as for the homeless). I worry that they actually wish to cause some level of trouble which will enable power grabs and legislation they've long since planned. When you follow the money, this stops sounding ludicrous. And their spreading of distrust, of dividing and conquering the country, becomes increasingly visible.

(I am NOT including big pharma's overdrive to force drugs upon everyone, for profit, as mental health "care". Note that "abilify", now marketed as a depression alleviator, is an enormously powerful anti-psychotic, period, that they are cross-marketing for profit purposes. I saw one person get Tardive Dyskinesia, or permanent uncontrolled muscle spasms, from that crap, yet there they go creating new markets...absolutely disgusting. What did they do for the guy whose face began slamming around? Rushed him out of the place, never to be seen again. Good work there. That's sarcasm.).

Suffice to say, there are multiple levels of profiteers involved in this, and lobbyists usually "win". It would and hopefully will be interesting to see republican's reactions to any attempt to significantly increase mental health care budgets to where they will best function for those in need. Any resistance would be quite telling. And all of this perfectly feeds into the DHS/Patriot Act push to categorize Americans as potential terrorists, so that they may continue expanding both their budgets and Kontrol. Fear the Other! We NEED drones in our skies and paramilitary police! Augh..

Please do not fear what you might not yet understand. Please do not take the advice of those who sell fear (or prisons or drugs) for a living. Please do start the conversation so that another group does not end up demonized and marginalized as so many previously have in our "society". We are better than that. We have a better future ahead of us than that. Peace.

Further reading:

Public Buses Across Country Quietly Adding Microphones to Record Passenger Conversations


http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/12/public-bus-audio-surveillance/

Articles on Wells Fargo shareholding in for-profit prisons

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=wells+fargo+for+profit+prison+shares&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

On the other side of things, how much was saved through housing the chronically homeless, as a general model:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:pmd70uQPc2wJ:zev.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/Project-50-Cost-Effectiveness-report-FINAL-6-6-12.pdf+project+50+los+angeles&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiCeEzcO7HWmBf8m7M906K0l2e3t-GWY-w4y0k4HjTVX8CcR6hPCTc4hPlkJpwN9ZHO8v0mIi6HzdlrqjjfHiiGw2zd2DIKguWHzNFgwYfjKNI-8h5clO92lWoyJec0D0VyU01A&sig=AHIEtbRON7MWwNTu1KsQEVX1TEDLn6IPhg

"Preface
A growing body of research literature demonstrates that the provision of housing to
chronically homeless populations provides a critical foundation from which to address
problems in the areas of physical health, mental health and substance abuse. A
consensus is also emerging among researchers to the effect that the permanent
supportive housing model – in which chronically homeless individuals are provided with
housing as well as services and intensive case management – is not only humane but
also fiscally prudent insofar as it tends to be considerably less expensive than what
takes place when homeless persons are left on the streets and forced to address their
health and substance abuse problems through emergency systems of care, and in a
fragmented fashion. The present report evaluates Project 50, a Board of Supervisors
demonstration project that provides housing and integrated services to some of the
most vulnerable, chronically homeless adults living in the Skid Row section of Los
Angeles. The program offers policymakers a test case of the viability of the permanent
supportive housing model in Los Angeles County. The bulk of this report looks at
Project 50 from the standpoint of a cost avoidance analysis and shows that, between
2008 and 2010, the program not only saved the County money but actually yielded a
surplus. While $3.045 million was invested in Project 50, the program yielded cost
savings of $3.284 million over the two-year observation period, a surplus of $238,700,
or $4,774 per occupied housing unit over two years (an occupied housing unit refers to
one housing unit occupied by one person). Mental health and substance abuse
treatment costs increased for the program’s participants, primarily because acute
problems in these areas had remained largely unaddressed prior to the admission of
participants to Project 50, but these increases were more than offset by savings in the
areas of incarceration and medical services. In an effort to add qualitative information
to the cost savings results and gain a better understanding of Project 50’s functionality
and the effectiveness of its homelessness prevention methods, this report additionally
features the results of focus group interviews conducted with participants and program
staff. The qualitative results highlight the practices that have enabled the program to
generate such dramatic cost savings results, showing that Project 50 is proactive and
responsive in creating the basic conditions necessary for persons with severe barriers
and long histories of life on the streets to begin to achieve greater self-sufficiency and
stability. Taken together, the cost savings and qualitative results paint a picture of an
efficient and effective approach to the problem of homelessness, one that is well worth
replicating in other parts of Los Angeles County."

Manuel H. Moreno, Ph.D.
Director of Research,
Research and Evaluation Services

Los Angeles Project 50 shows it costs more to leave vulnerable neighbors on the street than it does to house them permanently

http://unitygno.org/2012/06/los-angeles-project-50-shows-it-costs-more-to-leave-vulnerable-neighbors-on-the-street-than-it-does-to-house-them-permanently/

However...the LA sheriffs are asking for $2 billion to build two new prisons, and the so-called "safer cities initiative" has pumped over $6,000,000 per year into increased police presence and nuisance arrests of the homeless and mentally ill on Skid Row. This is far more money than Project 50 used to save lives and money for the city.

http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=safer+cities+initiative+%246+million&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

You will read that there is "crime" on Skid Row, and that police are making arrests. What is omitted is that the "crime" can come at the level of non-compliance with nuisance ordinance designed to criminalize the homeless. When arrests build and citations are not paid, people end up in jail. For-profit jails.



The homeless, the addict, the mentally ill are under attack, are fodder for profit. This is not the society we need.

---

Update, Dec. 21:

Mental health group blasts NRA call for database on mentally ill

http://morningjournal.com/articles/2012/12/21/news/doc50d4e60ca91a0077727395.txt

A major mental health advocacy group blasted the National Rifle Association today for calling for a national database on people with mental illnesses.

In a brief aside at a press conference this morning, the NRA’s chief executive officer blamed the elementary school shootings in Newtown, Conn, in part on the “nation’s refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill.”

The National Alliance on Mental Illness, a grassroots advocacy group representing families affected by mental illness, said that such a database would be overly broad.

In a statement, executive director Michael Fitzpatrick noted that one in four Americans have been treated for such things as depression or anxiety and few are at risk of being violent.

(More at the link.)



The Republican Dalek ?@RepublicanDalek

NYPD EXAMINES WATCHING EVERYTHING YOU DO ONLINE. PURELY IN CASE YOU SNAP AND SHOOT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE, OF COURSE. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/nyregion/police-dept-to-use-internet-to-try-to-stop-shootings.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0

Police Dept. to Use Internet to Try to Stop Mass Shootings

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/nyregion/police-dept-to-use-internet-to-try-to-stop-shootings.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&

Top intelligence officials in the New York Police Department met on Thursday to examine ways to search the Internet to identify potential “deranged” gunmen before they strike, Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said.

“The techniques would include cyber-searches of language that mass-casualty shooters have used in e-mails and Internet postings,” Mr. Kelly said in a statement. “The goal would be to identify the shooter in cyberspace, engage him there and intervene, possibly using an undercover to get close, and take him into custody or otherwise disrupt his plans.”

snip

There are plans to send officers to Newtown and to scenes of other mass shootings to collect information, Paul. J. Browne, the department’s chief spokesman, said.

Mr. Browne said the potential tactics included creating an algorithm that would search online “for terms used by active shooters in the past that may be an indicator of future intentions.”



SWAT cops to ask for IDs from everyone in Arkansas town

http://rt.com/usa/news/swat-guns-paragould-arkansas-224/

There isn’t a lot to do in Paragould, Arkansas, but residents of the town of barely 25,000 seem to have no problem finding trouble. Now in order to curb the rising crime rate, the city is proposing heavily armed police patrol the streets on foot.

At a town hall meeting on Thursday, Mayor Mike Gaskill and Police Chief Todd Stovall endorsed a plan to send cops dressed in full-fledged SWAT gear and equipped with AR-15s into downtown Paragould starting in 2013.

The militarized police force will be tasked with trying to control a crime rate that has made Paragould an increasingly dangerous place to live in recent years. According to statistics collected by city-data.com, Paragould has had a property crime index rating more than double the national average since 2007. Rapes, burglaries, thefts and assaults per capita are also well above the mean there, statistically suggesting Paragould is perhaps the least-safe among area cities.

"This fear is what's given us the reason to do this. Once I have stats and people saying they're scared, we can do this," Stovall said, according to the Paragould Daily Press. "It allows us to do what we're fixing to do."




U.S. Shooting Deaths Since Sandy Hook Top 100


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/us-shooting-deaths-sandy-hook_n_2348466.html

This week, as mourners gathered in Newtown, Conn., to bury Sandy Hook Elementary's dead, and a nation renewed its debate over guns, the shootings did not stop. The Huffington Post spent the week tracking gun-related homicides and accidents throughout the U.S., logging more than 100 from Google and Nexis searches. This is by no means a definitive tally. In 2010, there were more than twice that many homicides alone in an average week.






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I worry about it too. I've a fairly close family member who was recently diagnosed. Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #1
I hope your family member is okay and has no problems or complications :( Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #2
There've been some occupational ramifications. Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #7
I'm so sorry. At least he's on it early and may have some useful continuity. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #9
Glad to see someone else start this thread. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Dec 2012 #3
AIDS victims were marginalized in this manner as well. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #4
I know you're not suggesting it, but it has to be said ck4829 Dec 2012 #34
Virtually all of us are "mentally ill" in some way pinboy3niner Dec 2012 #5
Very true. nt Live and Learn Dec 2012 #6
Seeing how destructive and traumatizing this society can be, I'd have to agree. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #8
Something you'll appreciate, brother... pinboy3niner Dec 2012 #10
Our Veterans especially deserve far better than what they've gotten Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #11
The bigger imperative is for our women vets and the sexual abuse they've endured pinboy3niner Dec 2012 #12
Great post. Thank you for caring. Denninmi Dec 2012 #13
Fantastic post, fantastic attitude. Bravo. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #15
And.... you can *write*. Wowza! Powerful stuff. n/t Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #17
Thanks. Denninmi Dec 2012 #18
It's disheartening lbrtbell Dec 2012 #14
Violent mentally ill people pose a threat to themselves and to everyone else slackmaster Dec 2012 #16
Yes, thats true, but HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author slackmaster Dec 2012 #21
I'm very sorry for your experience and for their suffering. :( Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #24
Thanks. I think I'm better informed that most people. I do have a degree in psychology, and... slackmaster Dec 2012 #25
Knowing something was wrong with me, I studied psychology and abnormal psych Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #30
"Do what we say or else". :/ Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #22
Please read about a law we have here in California. I think it's a good one, but it's only been... slackmaster Dec 2012 #23
A tragedy, yet it is another extreme example when the majority are not Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #26
Point taken. You had a horrible experience. Thanks for helping to enlighten me. slackmaster Dec 2012 #28
I do not wish to diminish your own horrible experiences or education and involvement. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #33
Thanks again. I did have someone committed once, and the good that resulted was very limited. slackmaster Dec 2012 #35
Of course we will. It's already happening. "Mental illness is the problem. Using drugs GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #20
... Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #27
*hugs back* GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #32
Very well said. limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #29
Thank you. In the ward in which I had the misfortune to end up, it was entirely drugs drugs drugs. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #31
Thank you for a HappyMe Dec 2012 #36
Saw a comment on Twitter that the NRA are calling for a registry etc. of the "mentally ill". Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #37
It's true. Updated the OP. Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #38
The NRA are a massive social and political lobby intent upon expanding markets and sales Fire Walk With Me Dec 2012 #39
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