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In reply to the discussion: Why are people buying the line that this was driven primarily mental illness [View all]Jamastiene
(38,206 posts)118. What I don't understand is why point at the mentally ill when
even most serial killers are found to be sane after being evaluated by a slew of professionals in the field? Most mentally ill people are not violent. We didn't do this. The shooter did this. Most of us are just as horrified as you are by the horrible murders of all those innocent children and the adults who were killed too.
When people say the mentally ill need to be kept away from guns and that would solve the problem, they are saying only the mentally ill are capable of violence. There have been some people who have done exactly that these last few days. It is a knee jerk reaction and it adds to the stigma of being mentally ill, because the majority of mentally ill people are NOT violent.
Mentally ill no more likely to be violent than anyone else
Sunday, May 07, 2000
By Anita Srikameswaran, Post-Gazette Staff Writer
Correction/Clarification: (Published May 9, 2000) Experts estimate that 0.7 percent of the population will suffer from schizophrenia over a lifetime. A story about mental illness and violence in Sundays editions incorrectly cited a figure 10 times higher.
Only rarely are violent acts committed by people who are mentally ill.
It's a message that has been emphasized for years -- but each time there is a deadly shooting spree, such as the recent ones for which Ronald Taylor of Wilkinsburg and Richard Baumhammers of Mt. Lebanon have been charged, many people are inherently skeptical of that assertion.
Still, experts insist that large studies support the idea that mentally ill people are no more likely to commit violent acts than anyone else, and in fact may not commit them as often as would be expected from their proportion of the population.
Sunday, May 07, 2000
By Anita Srikameswaran, Post-Gazette Staff Writer
Correction/Clarification: (Published May 9, 2000) Experts estimate that 0.7 percent of the population will suffer from schizophrenia over a lifetime. A story about mental illness and violence in Sundays editions incorrectly cited a figure 10 times higher.
Only rarely are violent acts committed by people who are mentally ill.
It's a message that has been emphasized for years -- but each time there is a deadly shooting spree, such as the recent ones for which Ronald Taylor of Wilkinsburg and Richard Baumhammers of Mt. Lebanon have been charged, many people are inherently skeptical of that assertion.
Still, experts insist that large studies support the idea that mentally ill people are no more likely to commit violent acts than anyone else, and in fact may not commit them as often as would be expected from their proportion of the population.
http://old.post-gazette.com/regionstate/20000507mental8.asp
This is but one article about intensive studies that have been done to find whether mentally ill people are more prone to violence. In fact, we are more apt to be victims of violence than the perpetrators.
This is what we know.
Fact: The police have clearly said the shooter is dead.
Fact: The only factual information we have so far is that he might have had Aspberger's or been autistic. Even that hasn't been clear, but the might is a keyword even there.
Fact: The murders were committed with guns.
Fact: The shooter killed 20 children and 7 adults.
That is really all we KNOW and even some of that is sketchy. Blaming "the mentally ill*" is not going to bring those who were murdered back. It only further stigmatizes people with mental illness.
*When people say "the mentally ill," they are insinuating we are all dangerous and violent and that is NOT true. Please read the article above and do more research from mental health professionals and learn about mental illness. We are not all heinous villains ready to commit atrocities on the public at large. Most of us are just as horrified as you are.
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Why are people buying the line that this was driven primarily mental illness [View all]
Pretzel_Warrior
Dec 2012
OP
Sane men rape, torture and kill children every day. There's a diff. between insanity & something
Honeycombe8
Dec 2012
#72
They can be sane, and they often are. So say the court appointed psychiatrists.
Honeycombe8
Dec 2012
#75
"Insanity" in the world, generally, differs from insanity defense in a courtroom.
elleng
Dec 2012
#84
It's hard for me to believe that anybody could look at a child and then shoot them
Jamastiene
Dec 2012
#110
At the time of that post, I hadn't realized how easily these over-the-counter death machines
valerief
Jan 2013
#148
I agree elleng, oddly though depending on the circumstances and crime
Puzzledtraveller
Dec 2012
#126
This isn't an either/or situation. We need gun control *and* more mental health surveillance.
reformist2
Dec 2012
#5
Makes sense. I think some people confuse "mental problems" with "insanity." 2 diff. things.
Honeycombe8
Dec 2012
#82
Because it's a convenient scapegoat population that has enough trouble protecting itself. (nt)
Posteritatis
Dec 2012
#9
+1. Its NRA framing to deflect attention from the real problem - the guns.
riderinthestorm
Dec 2012
#15
Eh, it's not just an NRA thing. People in general are pretty damned ignorant on the topic.
Posteritatis
Dec 2012
#19
I agree most mentally ill people are non-violent, but so are most gun-owners.
HooptieWagon
Dec 2012
#47
Oh but I believe this is precisely the point: is a "right" to live greater than your right to guns?
riderinthestorm
Dec 2012
#50
Except that, yes, most of the discussions *do* open it up to "all forms of mental illness."
Posteritatis
Dec 2012
#137
Time to call their bluff and say we need to discuss mental illness *and* gun control!
reformist2
Dec 2012
#14
No we need to get the guns under control independent of any other discussion.
Warren Stupidity
Dec 2012
#16
To be truthful, we don't have any answers on that. But stigmatizing the mentally ill by association
riderinthestorm
Dec 2012
#39
No. I am stating explicitly this a deliberate deflection from the obvious problem with gun control.
Warren Stupidity
Dec 2012
#109
Maybe. In a court of law, sanity is not defined by a Dx of mental illness or not.
MichiganVote
Dec 2012
#20
Correct. Which is especially sad, them co-opting the subject. Because it is a REAL issue
kestrel91316
Dec 2012
#55
You are right. Sane people commit horrible acts all the time. Was Hitler insane?
Walk away
Dec 2012
#25
I think this act deserves its own special category of the criminally insane.
Old and In the Way
Dec 2012
#32
I am not sure if that is the case, however, it is in human nature to try and rationalize the
still_one
Dec 2012
#35
...Because its easy to scapegoat a group that really doesn't have a voice.
etherealtruth
Dec 2012
#40
It may be one of their weapons but it doesn't mean it doesn't merit attention.
Live and Learn
Dec 2012
#65
We can turn that around - 99.9% of the mentally ill won't shoot anyone either.
riderinthestorm
Dec 2012
#46
Gun owners can have all the guns they want. They just can't be reckless with them.
kestrel91316
Dec 2012
#56
Hmm, let's balance their "hobby" vs "a person's life" when it comes to restrictions
riderinthestorm
Dec 2012
#57
Many, many sane German Wermacht committed mass killing against unarmed civilians
LanternWaste
Dec 2012
#134
Mental problems played a role, but those guns were not stored securely by their owner.
kestrel91316
Dec 2012
#54
The 2 things aren't mutually exclusive. One is the CAUSE, the other is the METHOD of violence.
Honeycombe8
Dec 2012
#71
no. I joined to have a conversation about a lot of things. but this spurred me to join. An
Pretzel_Warrior
Dec 2012
#94
whether or not he met the legal and technical definition of insanity is one thing - but of course he
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2012
#95
This society was perfectly willing to invade and occupy a country (Iraq) under
coalition_unwilling
Dec 2012
#97
Aspergers is an autism spectrum disorder. 299.00 Autism is listed in the 2000 revision
HereSince1628
Dec 2012
#103
Yes, I know quite well what it is, but I don't know that that qualifies as a mental "illness"
OrwellwasRight
Dec 2012
#135
The reason it has a diagnostic code is because it's recognized as a disorder.
HereSince1628
Dec 2012
#138
Ironically, much aggressive violence against others by the mentally _IS_ reactive defense
HereSince1628
Dec 2012
#108
Because people are looking for any scapegoat they can find. It is misplaced aggression.
Jamastiene
Dec 2012
#104
Horrible events like the school shootings seem to create a need for mental help
Jamastiene
Dec 2012
#117
Anyone that shoots a bunch of kids in cold blood is insane. Non-debatable statement.
Zorra
Dec 2012
#105
It would be great if society could operationalize that certainty so that it becomes
HereSince1628
Dec 2012
#113
you aren't seriously suggesting that there wasn't mental illness in the case.
librechik
Dec 2012
#124
Because Big Pharma pays the corporate media a lot of money to divert attention
No Compromise
Dec 2012
#125