General Discussion

DesMoinesDem

(1,569 posts)

72. I was right. You did write a really, really stupid reply to my post!

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 01:18 PM

Dec 2012

Let's just take a quick look at what Wikipedia says fact means so you can learn something that everyone else learned in grade school or before.

Wikipedia: A fact (derived from the Latin factum, see below) is something that has really occurred or is actually the case.

You: If you, yes YOU PERSONALLY, have a gun and are in one of these situations, YOU WILL MAKE MATTERS WORSE! That is fact, not opinion.

Has the person you are talking to had a gun in that situation and made matters worse? Nope. So it is not a fact. It is your opinion.

Furthermore, there are countless cases where people, not officers, with varying degrees of training, have been able to stop someone with a gun with their own gun. That is also a fact. It is also a fact that you have not provided any links to any actually studies that say it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone without law enforcement or military training to stop an an armed attacker with their own gun.

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169 replies

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Highlight:

"In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun." [View all] kpete Dec 2012 OP

Oh---but it makes us safer. trumad Dec 2012 #1

That's a paranoid fantasy of gun nuts _ed_ Dec 2012 #2

They don't see the movie Red Dawn as a work of fiction, but more like a training film. Waltons_Mtn Dec 2012 #7

One they are not afraid to tell you liberal N proud Dec 2012 #118

because they have mainstreamed their delusions Skittles Dec 2012 #167

Many times its the same crowd liberal N proud Dec 2012 #169

Thank you. LisaLynne Dec 2012 #3

Now ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #4

+1,000. freshwest Dec 2012 #40

YOU KNOW IT 1StrongBlackMan Skittles Dec 2012 #168

Considering that 8 MILLION people have concealed weapon permits in the US, sounds like an epic fail. reformist2 Dec 2012 #5

Considering that TEN THOUSAND Americans are killed by guns every year Zoeisright Dec 2012 #141

I have no idea what your point is. reformist2 Dec 2012 #146

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #6

How many of these killings took place in such zones? Robb Dec 2012 #9

Most of them. Indydem Dec 2012 #11

4 is not most of 62. Robb Dec 2012 #15

Care to point me in the direction of this list of 62 so I can provide you with an accurate count? Indydem Dec 2012 #19

The link is at the OP. Robb Dec 2012 #29

Yeah Shadowflash Dec 2012 #39

Yep, you got that right. And just how do armed, trained, on the job cops get killed? freshwest Dec 2012 #42

black and white RegieRocker Dec 2012 #83

Who's B & W? Guns always save, or guns don't always save? Did you read my post? freshwest Dec 2012 #88

I Disagree With You fightthegoodfightnow Dec 2012 #119

Virginia Tech had a police force & Columbine had a Resouce Officer byeya Dec 2012 #131

doesn't seem to happen in congress aandegoons Dec 2012 #10

Really? Indydem Dec 2012 #13

Gun free zone is an NRA talking point nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #46

well heaven05 Dec 2012 #79

"Gun Free Zone" = NRA talking point RomneyLies Dec 2012 #14

Except for the fact that it's the name of the legislation. Indydem Dec 2012 #16

I don't care how much you train on a range RomneyLies Dec 2012 #20

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Indydem Dec 2012 #23

That is FACT, not opinion RomneyLies Dec 2012 #25

You don't know the difference between fact and opinion. That is a fact. nt DesMoinesDem Dec 2012 #43

You are obviously the one who is confused. RomneyLies Dec 2012 #45

Nope, I'm not confused about anything. DesMoinesDem Dec 2012 #55

I know what fact means and you have rejected the definition RomneyLies Dec 2012 #63

I was right. You did write a really, really stupid reply to my post! DesMoinesDem Dec 2012 #72

I cannot talk with somebody who rejects facts RomneyLies Dec 2012 #73

You are the one that is denying the definition of fact. DesMoinesDem Dec 2012 #80

You've heard the expression - the exception that proves the rule - right? GoneOffShore Dec 2012 #95

That was never my point. DesMoinesDem Dec 2012 #116

My god.... Ineeda Dec 2012 #117

Are you kidding? What a pathetic attack. DesMoinesDem Dec 2012 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author former-republican Dec 2012 #69

You should go to Vegas or buy on the stock market... Lightbulb_on Dec 2012 #98

BULLSHIT! Cops do not train constantly. Many only train when they have to qualify, perhaps twice TPaine7 Dec 2012 #140

Do you know how long it took the killer to complete his massacre? JDPriestly Dec 2012 #44

That's not a fact nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #47

Ever been under direct fire tough hombre? I have. I talk from experience, AlbertCat Dec 2012 #82

So you think she had the five extra seconds to reach for it, nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #90

VSo you think she had the five extra seconds to reach for it, AlbertCat Dec 2012 #96

We have exactly one nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #99

"Ever been under direct fire tough hombre? I have." zappaman Dec 2012 #130

Provided she was not doing her job and sitting by the safe... And the Giffords shooter freshwest Dec 2012 #48

Well, if she had a gun in the safe, she still may not have been able to use it. haele Dec 2012 #77

You're right she could have done more if she had possessed a gun. Mike Daniels Dec 2012 #89

First of all, John2 Dec 2012 #125

Does this include police officers? n/t Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #27

Police Officers train specifically for these sorts of incidents RomneyLies Dec 2012 #38

Then we all need trainig RegieRocker Dec 2012 #86

No, we should BAN conceal carry RomneyLies Dec 2012 #87

Nope. RegieRocker Dec 2012 #104

MOAR GUNZ is an NRA lie RomneyLies Dec 2012 #113

Gun violence has gone done as the number of states allowing CC has gone up. DesMoinesDem Dec 2012 #122

And crime has been going down everywhere caseymoz Dec 2012 #126

I never claimed that gun violence wasn't going down everywhere DesMoinesDem Dec 2012 #148

You have it backwards nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #103

Nope RegieRocker Dec 2012 #105

Whatever NRA parrot. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #108

Anti gunner crow RegieRocker Dec 2012 #156

Funny, I am a gun owner nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #157

But you said it doesn't matter if you train on a range. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #128

Public ranges are nothing at all like the combat ranges police train on RomneyLies Dec 2012 #132

I've been shooting for 30 years, and I shoot competitively. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #135

I don't care how well you shoot RomneyLies Dec 2012 #137

I'll take my chances, thanks. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #149

I'd take no civilians with guns over adding civilians with guns to the mix RomneyLies Dec 2012 #152

A law dormant since 1995 alp227 Dec 2012 #70

Err.. Disingenuous at best. X_Digger Dec 2012 #74

Thanks for reposting NRA talking points _ed_ Dec 2012 #17

It's not a talking point. It's a law. Indydem Dec 2012 #18

It's both the name of a law and a right-wing NRA talking point _ed_ Dec 2012 #21

Do you have an illiteracy problem? jeff47 Dec 2012 #22

The Fort Hood shooting was on a military base. It was stopped by military police.nt CJCRANE Dec 2012 #24

So we tried MOAR GUNZ and it was na EPIC FAIL! RomneyLies Dec 2012 #8

The gunsters have a lot of anecdotes and talking points that are BS Doctor_J Dec 2012 #12

The excuse I like best is... Little Star Dec 2012 #31

I had that argument with someone yesterday. stevenleser Dec 2012 #114

Pearl High School shooting, stopped by principal with gun snooper2 Dec 2012 #26

No, MJ's catch-22 rules that one out.. X_Digger Dec 2012 #28

Yep, and when both sides do it they look foolish and fucking stupid snooper2 Dec 2012 #33

No sir. Answer post #34, FULLY or stow it jsmirman Dec 2012 #36

In the Pearl High School case, it appears that the killer simply decided to leave. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #56

Yeah, the killer decided to leave and go to an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL snooper2 Dec 2012 #60

And... not the point. The point being that he was in a position to be more easily subdued. jsmirman Dec 2012 #65

Thanks, kind of expected that was the answer jsmirman Dec 2012 #61

I'm sorry but Dianne Sawyer cannot prove a falsehood. "Ordinary trained gun owners have stopped TPaine7 Dec 2012 #139

The other crazy thing is that your one anecdotal story is incomplete - "Subdued" - how??? jsmirman Dec 2012 #37

www.google.com snooper2 Dec 2012 #84

Pathetic jsmirman Dec 2012 #93

I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the NRA party snooper2 Dec 2012 #97

Well, you haven't brought anything convincing to the party, regardless jsmirman Dec 2012 #101

And Appalachian School doesn't count whistler162 Dec 2012 #76

One is a security guard, so doesn't seem to apply - not some random armed citizen jsmirman Dec 2012 #34

It is a valid rebuttal sarisataka Dec 2012 #41

Oh dear, I knew that was coming. NO ONE CARES. Apparently it doesn't fit their statistical rule jsmirman Dec 2012 #59

So if a person makes an absolute statement sarisataka Dec 2012 #92

You're just wrong, and it's because you're trying to be lawyerly and you're doing it wrong jsmirman Dec 2012 #100

OK, I read the article sarisataka Dec 2012 #134

I believe they used the FBI's criteria - not something they made up. jsmirman Dec 2012 #166

The Mother Jones article is being dishonest, you can have a debate while still using facts at hand- snooper2 Dec 2012 #57

If you read the Mother Jones article, you learn that it adopts the FBI definition of a mass shooting JDPriestly Dec 2012 #67

So, let's break this down - over almost 15 years jsmirman Dec 2012 #68

I don't have a bone on either side of this debate...It would help if folks just looked at all the snooper2 Dec 2012 #78

A combination of stories like that which show a PATTERN of utility to civilian gun ownership jsmirman Dec 2012 #109

Stabbing spree intaglio Dec 2012 #115

I don't believe your claim of impartiality pscot Dec 2012 #121

You shouldn't believe anything you read online without doing your own verification snooper2 Dec 2012 #123

Not prevented... nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #50

Gun nut logic. mikeysnot Dec 2012 #71

Pearl High School shooting, stopped by principal with gun AlbertCat Dec 2012 #85

Excellent post RegieRocker Dec 2012 #102

But they are usually cut short by *someone* with a gun. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #30

More guns is an NRA talking point. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #52

I don't care who's talking point it is. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #127

Yup, in this case the gunman himself. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #136

Sure - after the police show up. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #144

It is nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #147

No one is suggesting we don't need laws. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #155

That would be the police pscot Dec 2012 #143

But the magical police can do it with magical ease! Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #145

I get it...let's go fully to what you are saying nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #150

They're gun drunk pscot Dec 2012 #153

No, obviously we need police Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #154

So once again nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #158

I've never suggested that everyone has to carry a gun. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #159

But that is the end result of the logic that more guns are a solution nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #160

Nah. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #161

Sorry, the ccw stoping anything are mostly nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #162

Get rid of them all. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #163

You know, you will find agreement with that position here as well nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #164

Yes, fine. Atypical Liberal Dec 2012 #165

When the shooting in Tucson took place nearly two years ago, SheilaT Dec 2012 #32

I recall reading that there was a man with a gun (and CC permit) at the Tucson scene. IggleDoer Dec 2012 #51

Impossible AlexSatan Dec 2012 #66

He was inside the Safeway when the shooting started. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #124

It was stopped by an unarmed civilian. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #54

It's one of those gun nut fantasies MrScorpio Dec 2012 #35

There is ONE nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #62

*tagging for later Marr Dec 2012 #49

This falls right into their argument about arming the entire populace... secondwind Dec 2012 #53

We all know what happens when there are MOAR GUNZ! RomneyLies Dec 2012 #58

Sure. Marinedem Dec 2012 #64

So what is your solution? alp227 Dec 2012 #75

Bring semiautomatic rifles Marinedem Dec 2012 #110

So your solution is everybody gets issued a glock 9mm nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #94

No. Marinedem Dec 2012 #112

I am taking this logic all the way to it's logical end. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #138

More guns do not make us safe RockaFowler Dec 2012 #81

Wow! 2012 has been a banner year! struggle4progress Dec 2012 #91

Thanks kpete progressoid Dec 2012 #106

Personal story DissidentVoice Dec 2012 #107

I saw this last night regarding our very own local shooting last week. Still Blue in PDX Dec 2012 #111

This was on FB from my only remaining hardcore Conservative friend Patiod Dec 2012 #133

I have too many of those. Still Blue in PDX Dec 2012 #142

NOT TRUE AT ALL - "In not a single case was the killing stopped by a civilian using a gun." Jumping John Dec 2012 #129

Interesting that the casualties have really shot up since junior instituted pre-emptive war indepat Dec 2012 #151