General Discussion

democrattotheend

(12,011 posts)

103. Trust but verify

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 08:27 PM

Dec 2012

I think he is doing the best he can to get the best deal he can, but I also think he is not committed enough to protecting the New Deal. Even though he believes in government providing a social safety net, and he has tried to shift the narrative to show that government can help people, he has shown too much willingness to give in on SS and Medicare. On the other hand, when people shouted down the Medicare age increase he listened (I hope - seems like that is off the table!)

So for the most part I trust him, and I believe this is the least bad offer so far, but the pressure still needs to be kept up.

I am not going to bash him or call him a closet Republican or a fraud if this ends up being the deal, but I really hope there is some way to avoid the chained CPI or at least tweak the formula to avoid hurting those most vulnerable.

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Krugman: Rumors of a Deal (WTF?) - updated [View all] ProSense Dec 2012 OP

This better not be true Blaukraut Dec 2012 #1

I seriously wonder if ProSense Dec 2012 #5

and shoot seltzer down each other's pants.. russspeakeasy Dec 2012 #15

Don't ask, don't tell... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2012 #64

Sadly the rightwing media complex humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #34

a majority of both democratic & republican voters support raising taxes on the rich. if this is HiPointDem Dec 2012 #55

+1 HiPointDem Dec 2012 #52

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #59

Social Security has nothing to do with the deficit, assuming even the deficit is important enough byeya Dec 2012 #2

exactly, we've been paying it up since the 1980's WashingtonConsensus Dec 2012 #44

No worries. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #3

If he does, you get to gloat and say I told you so. ProSense Dec 2012 #7

Not really gloating... MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #8

It's also a hidden tax increase on the poor and middle class... Luminous Animal Dec 2012 #13

I never saw it as a bluff. If Obama cuts Social Security you plethoro Dec 2012 #28

+1. if he goes for cuts, that's about it for me and the democratic party, i.e. the republican-lite HiPointDem Dec 2012 #70

I would love to be wrong about an Obama capitulation, someday, myself. villager Dec 2012 #33

It was said by many on this board that entitlement cuts would be made by the lame duck plethoro Dec 2012 #36

If this is true, there are several on DU that should seriously consider self exile. A Simple Game Dec 2012 #51

Hey, give credit to people owning what they have said jsmirman Dec 2012 #53

I reserve judgment until we know just what is going to happen. A Simple Game Dec 2012 #100

I am seriously concerned jsmirman Dec 2012 #102

You just don't understand n-dimensional chess, Manny. Jackpine Radical Dec 2012 #80

And it's been made abundantly clear in that post that this is JUST A RUMOR. BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #60

First off, it's now being reported as fact MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #65

Whose fact? The anonymous source's? Who is this person? A Republican mole? BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #99

you think they can make $400 billion in cuts to medicare & it won't affect recipients? i gotta HiPointDem Dec 2012 #84

Yes, I do. You're forgetting that we now have the PPACA and a public option on its BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #96

well, we're going to see. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #101

Why am I not surprised you'd respond this way? I guess nothing Obama does BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #104

I think obama is much more presidential than bush was and michelle has been one of the best HiPointDem Dec 2012 #105

Why is that? BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #106

if the white house didn't want the terms to be public, i assume they wouldn't have released them. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #107

An earlier question ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #4

It will eventually be a 10% cut in benefits. IIRC MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #11

So billionaires can stay rich? NO! aquart Dec 2012 #24

Thanks ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #39

it'll eventually be a ticket to the cemetery, because the cuts don't end after 10 years. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #85

A chained CPI if inflation goes up will be disastrous for low-income plethoro Dec 2012 #76

Oh good, so despite two years straight of zero SS COLA, the CPI they used is too lavish? DJ13 Dec 2012 #6

Actually, the official CPI used for older Americans shows *higher* inflation than what's used now MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #12

I hope this isn't true! neverforget Dec 2012 #9

That's right: It's the Chinese death-of-a-thousand-cuts byeya Dec 2012 #10

FWIW, I don't think it will happen quite this way. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #14

Is raising the cap on SS payroll deductions even talked about anymore? Blaukraut Dec 2012 #16

Nah, that would cost money for rich people. nt MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #17

^^^ this ^^^ TDale313 Dec 2012 #22

It's not a robbery in their minds, Manny, it's their own money Trailrider1951 Dec 2012 #57

A deal to hurt the elderly and vulnerable. forestpath Dec 2012 #18

Oh, yay. Hanging us out to dry again. Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #19

If either program is cut significantly, you can plethoro Dec 2012 #31

dammit abelenkpe Dec 2012 #20

Did you catch the "Speculative Outrage" bug or something? nt Bonobo Dec 2012 #21

You misunderstand ProSense Dec 2012 #27

I would have assumed it is the reverse. Bonobo Dec 2012 #29

It's bizarro world stupid. ProSense Dec 2012 #30

Divorced from reality. Bonobo Dec 2012 #35

Groovy ProSense Dec 2012 #40

IMO, ANY two party "system" Bonobo Dec 2012 #43

When the fuck did it become the Democrats' job to save the Republican Party? DJ13 Dec 2012 #46

What do Robert Reich & Senator Sanders say? Sanders has spoken strongly against CPI, right? Is this patrice Dec 2012 #23

Who are you and what have you done with ProSense? Fumesucker Dec 2012 #25

ALL CUTS COME FROM DOD. Period. on point Dec 2012 #26

you can say so, but right now it stands are $100B from military, $130B from SS, $400B from medical. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #86

Explanation: elleng Dec 2012 #32

Sounds like rationalization ProSense Dec 2012 #37

At this point, I'm going to trust Obama. FreeBC Dec 2012 #38

Trust but verify democrattotheend Dec 2012 #103

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-boehner-meet-as-debt-talks-intensify/2012/12/17/6b43c24 wilsonbooks Dec 2012 #41

I know I will get s**it for this, but I think the deal sounds Hoyt Dec 2012 #42

Do you know how much the chained CPI eventually cuts SS payments? MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #45

Manny it's not much in early years, especially when inflation is low. Hoyt Dec 2012 #50

It should not be part of the deficit negotiations. ProSense Dec 2012 #56

I'll bet my ass there is an increase in the cap too. You wait. Hoyt Dec 2012 #61

currently, the average 65-year-old lives to 85 MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #62

Manny, if it gets bad they will do something in a few years ASSUMING the economy is doing well. Hoyt Dec 2012 #73

There is zero need to make any cuts. MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #75

Thank God for Krugman to set us straight. Hoyt Dec 2012 #79

"and I'm assuming it works out like this" Nope, ProSense Dec 2012 #48

Sorry, I think you are wrong. If that's the deal, I'd take it and move on. Hoyt Dec 2012 #58

No, you're ProSense Dec 2012 #66

So Krugman is a liar and tool of the right on this. Hoyt Dec 2012 #71

Krugman: ProSense Dec 2012 #72

And he also said chained CPI is a small price to pay for rest of deal, like no Medicare age increase Hoyt Dec 2012 #74

What stimulus money do you even begin to think a new mass transit system there is? TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #82

R U M O R S.....we'll see spanone Dec 2012 #47

In the end it's up to us to put pressure on congress to say no if this is true. loyalkydem Dec 2012 #49

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #54

KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE humbled_opinion Dec 2012 #63

I'm darn sure for that. Hoyt Dec 2012 #83

We need to cut at the top Rosa Luxemburg Dec 2012 #67

I think we should cut Congress. That would be a HUGE savings, in graft alone. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #78

Go ahead and burn me at the stake cheapdate Dec 2012 #68

I agree, but only as long as lower income/wealth people aren't hurt. Hoyt Dec 2012 #87

How do they own the cuts? They can't pass them. TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #88

Much like the deficit reduction act of 2005...the poor and middle class will have less adirondacker Dec 2012 #69

seems like we're doing a hell of a lot of sacrificing while the bankster class's profits just keep HiPointDem Dec 2012 #77

I was hopeful that the Dems would repeal the act once in power.... adirondacker Dec 2012 #95

Sounds like a decent deal that will prevent a recession BrentWil Dec 2012 #81

I hope it's ProSense Dec 2012 #89

Yes but changing the index does save money and isn't reasonable BrentWil Dec 2012 #91

Good deal if you are never going to need Social Security or Medicare liberal N proud Dec 2012 #97

No problem. Obama will veto any bill that cuts SS, Medicare, or other social programs. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #90

Dream on BrentWil Dec 2012 #92

Hear, hear Babel_17 Dec 2012 #93

"Thank you for contacting the White House." Babel_17 Dec 2012 #94

st. reagan smiles in hell datasuspect Dec 2012 #98