General Discussion

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)

133. That is simply not a big-picture conclusion.

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:38 PM

Dec 2012

He used guns because he was able to access them. He also could have used a bomb, arson, or other means. Columbine was intended to be a bombing. Its only recognized as a mass-shooting because the bombs failed to detonate. Had they gone off as intended, it would be recognized as a mass-bombing, with additional deaths by shooting. There was the Oklahoma City bombing, the Olympic bombing, and there was the gay nightclub arson years ago...all of which intended and caused mass murder with zero firearms involved.

Yes, mass-shootings are horrific. But they still are just a fraction of gun-related homicides. We should do more to reduce ALL gun-related homicides (and suicides). However, acting on the notion that restricting guns will eliminate mass-murder is just an unrealistic fantasy.

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I am 100% certain Nancy Lanza considered herself a RESPONSIBLE gun owner. [View all] RomneyLies Dec 2012 OP

obviously - no one would consider themselves irresponsible DrDan Dec 2012 #1

Probably and/but she recognized her son's problems getting worse, elleng Dec 2012 #2

Yes DeeDeeNY Dec 2012 #9

Please give us a link Berserker Dec 2012 #14

Good luck getting a link. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #40

What possible difference does it make... 99Forever Dec 2012 #127

Many are claiming the guns weren't secured at all, HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #128

I appreciate that you took the time... 99Forever Dec 2012 #132

That is simply not a big-picture conclusion. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #133

Coulda... shoulda... woulda... 99Forever Dec 2012 #134

Is that true? I have been wondering if he broke into her gun stash. Chemisse Dec 2012 #18

One media source (The Telegraph?) reported that he tried to buy guns a day or so earlier. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #129

she was highly irresponsible in many ways amborin Dec 2012 #130

She probably was atreides1 Dec 2012 #3

Evidently she was shot while sleeping Fumesucker Dec 2012 #7

I've been a gun owner for years Sgent Dec 2012 #11

+1 MissMarple Dec 2012 #16

And yet she left her toys unsecured, all the while knowing how dangerous her son was. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #4

How do you know they were unsecured? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #39

IF the guns were secured and he destroyed the safe to get to them, then I retract what I said. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #41

He could have taken the key by force. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #46

There are reports that she told friends that she was afraid of him. She should have kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #58

If she was afraid of him, and left the guns unsecured, HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #64

The reports are she told friend she was losing him, not afraid of him. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #77

If he got his hands on them, aren't they by definition "unsecured"? mainer Dec 2012 #75

Not necessarily. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #76

I agree. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #68

Great point. I've never met a gun owner who didn't say he was responsible Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #5

Yes, the vast majority are responsible. Daniel537 Dec 2012 #20

Oh, you are kidding me, right? We have constant shootings... Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #23

Are the lives of the adults who died less important to you? Carnage251 Dec 2012 #32

Okay, let me say it this way 20 kids and 6 adults. Happier now? nt Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #73

I think the fact that so many of the victims were children has really hit home with people. Chemisse Dec 2012 #131

Assuming she wasn't a responsible owner... HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #35

Wow - that's like ThoughtCriminal Dec 2012 #65

Crack cocaine doesn't kill everyone in the U.S., so it should be readily available for everyone Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #72

You're making a strawman argument. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #84

Hunting? Fine. Ban all other guns. nt Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #85

Bushmaster .223 is advertised as a hunting gun ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #89

And banning all other guns will NOT solve the problem. Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #92

this i have no problem with... ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #94

There's a death-and-gun fetish in this country that I found in no other country I lived in Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #99

There's a video game fetish, why not blame them? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #121

Because people don't get shot by game videos. They get shot by guns, using bullets. nt Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #124

Certainly steps can be taken in that direction. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #103

It is useful for some hunting, HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #102

How about target or skeet-shooting? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #98

There are more guns than adults here. In the U.K. guns are very strictly controlled Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #104

Well, here's some numbers for you. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #107

No, we don't. Not really... Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #67

"No, we don't. Not really... We have more shootings than we should" Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #71

Nice reasoned, cogent response there. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #82

this is the sort of response you get from the 'can we finally have a discussion about guns' ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #90

Sadly, I think you're spot-on. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #93

Agreed susanr516 Dec 2012 #79

That's right, EVERY gun owner is responsible RomneyLies Dec 2012 #38

All gun owners are no more responsible than all mentally ill people are. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #66

Are you making an argument that because *everyone* doesn't get shot, that it's okay Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #74

what is a high rate to you? ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #91

Please stop it. You're talking to someone who lived in Europe, and felt considerably safer because Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #95

but there is violence in Europe as well ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #97

This is what I responded to someone who has the same opinion as you.... Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #105

so why does the UK have a higher rate of violent crime in general? ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #112

You love to change the subject. We're talking guns and DEATH Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #117

you said you felt safer so i was asking ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #122

I said I felt safer because I do. I don't want to live in a war zone where gun deaths are rampant. Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #123

i am not carrying a gun... ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #125

I'm not carrying a gun either, and I resent being forced to live in a war zone by gun-lovers nt Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #126

i would wager that any feeling you have about living in a warzone ProdigalJunkMail Dec 2012 #135

Wrong as usual. It has to do with the risk of being shot in the U.S. versus Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #138

How many times have you ever heard anyone say that they weren't responable about anything? Carnage251 Dec 2012 #34

As much as I think we need more gun control - Nancy never expected this Taverner Dec 2012 #6

If she never expected this, that means we have to on her behalf. jeff47 Dec 2012 #19

My brother was 12 when he figured out how to crack my parent's safe (contained jewelry) Dems to Win Dec 2012 #47

Gun safes are a tad better constructed than most home "Jewelry" safes. jeff47 Dec 2012 #48

of course. Still, kids do learn passwords and combinations..... Dems to Win Dec 2012 #49

How do you know they weren't in a safe? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #50

Its been reported that the guns were not secured (nt) jeff47 Dec 2012 #59

I have not seen that report. Do you have a link? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #62

Well, google's right over there. jeff47 Dec 2012 #69

I just spent an hour on google, finding no mention. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #70

If you love your family, you don't have guns. Period. Dems to Win Dec 2012 #8

They're all "responsible" xfundy Dec 2012 #10

All gun owners are responsible gun owners until they're not. N/T Bonhomme Richard Dec 2012 #12

Doesn't matter ramapo Dec 2012 #13

Do we now know she was sleeping...like shot in her bed? And that the weapons were not libdem4life Dec 2012 #15

60 Minutes said shot four times in the head... WorseBeforeBetter Dec 2012 #25

Oh my. It's just hard to imagine her bearing all of the blame for this libdem4life Dec 2012 #36

Screw her soul, whatever you think that is. HERVEPA Dec 2012 #81

Many on this board are #1, maybe #2 and until someone proves to me that her guns libdem4life Dec 2012 #83

Yea, there's a whole lot of rush to judgement and knee-jerk responses here on DU. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #86

They were her guns HERVEPA Dec 2012 #109

We don't know if son had previous indication of violence, HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #110

Christ! HERVEPA Dec 2012 #113

We don't know how accurate that description was. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #114

JFC obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #96

Every driver in America is also better than average if they judge themselves. Kablooie Dec 2012 #17

And everyone's kid is "above average". HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #88

if you consider a basic risk assesment matrix pasto76 Dec 2012 #21

Are You 100% Certain Ms Lanza Iggy Dec 2012 #22

I have no idea about her thoughts on her son's mental stability. RomneyLies Dec 2012 #24

We Already Know Numerous Gun Owners are NOT Responsble Iggy Dec 2012 #31

Beats me. Because they should. And we need to work to make that the new way of doing things. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #43

WRONG Answer >>>> Iggy Dec 2012 #115

The NRA isn't God. We can defeat them. I think we now have the momentum. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #119

Shit, I'm not the most responsible gun owner out there... OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #26

There was much that was going on in that family.... ReRe Dec 2012 #27

How do you know that? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #33

Seconded. libdem4life Dec 2012 #37

You have your opinion, I have mine. ReRe Dec 2012 #42

Your own words- "she is 100% responsible". HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #53

I said ReRe Dec 2012 #56

Meaning she was 100% responsible for her son getting the guns. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #60

I find your attitude about gun owner safety obligations to be quite disturbing. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #44

Well, then you're batting zero on your guesses. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #55

Oh, you knew her? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #28

And a 'piss poor' parent...perhaps? eom Purveyor Dec 2012 #29

Yep. They're like all those 'responsible' pit bull owners who are shocked when their little valerief Dec 2012 #30

Honestly, everyone who has a gun in their home should think about undeterred Dec 2012 #45

I'm pretty sure most of the conjecture about her is not all that productive Major Nikon Dec 2012 #51

Wow, a voice of reason. nt HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #78

She was just enjoying her 2nd amendment rights to own those highpowered guns LynneSin Dec 2012 #52

The kid was brought up in gun culture - that ain't responsible. Hoyt Dec 2012 #54

My mom thinks she's a responsible gun owner abelenkpe Dec 2012 #57

And that is why we need much stronger regulations and limits Marrah_G Dec 2012 #61

She may have been Berserker Dec 2012 #63

More to the point, the NRA, and those who issue Concealed Weapons Permits... MinM Dec 2012 #80

Actually, no. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #87

If she had lived ... quiche Dec 2012 #100

She didn't own any automatic weapons. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #106

She was shot with her own guns. Demobrat Dec 2012 #101

So you know how son got access to the guns? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #108

I don't have to know how he did it. Demobrat Dec 2012 #111

The school was also secured, yet he got in. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #116

Not very responsible, eh? n/t RomneyLies Dec 2012 #120

It is scary that so many people just believe what the media puts out there... mizz pibb. Dec 2012 #118

Regardless of what media reports, there's a lot of DUers flat out making shit up. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #136

Also blows apart the "but MY guns are SAFE" myth. Care Acutely Dec 2012 #137