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EarlG

(23,018 posts)
Thu May 15, 2025, 03:41 PM May 15

A humble suggestion [View all]

When talking about Trump's appalling behavior, don't say, "Imagine if Obama had done this," or "Imagine if Biden had done that." It's an easy thing to say -- I even noticed Hakeem Jeffries doing it the other day. But I think it's bad framing. Saying "Imagine if Obama/Biden had done this," to a conservative has two effects, neither of them useful.

First, conservatives already spend all day imagining what Obama and Biden would or did do while in office. They have already imagined the worst. They have already imagined Biden and Obama building gulags, and violating people's Constitutional rights, and profiting from the presidency. Conservatives have already been brainwashed into believing that Biden and Obama did all of that.

Second, it's weak whataboutism. If Trump is violating the Constitution, then saying, "Imagine if Obama violated the Constitution," to a conservative just drags Obama down to Trump's level. They will imagine Obama violating the Constitution. Then they will say to you, "Well if Obama did it you'd be fine with it" -- and now they have become even more entrenched in their thinking. They will feel justified in supporting Trump's Constitutional violations because they can imagine Obama or Biden doing it, and they can imagine liberals supporting Obama or Biden doing it.

So instead, try: "Obama didn't do this," or "Biden didn't do that."

It's the difference between:

"Donald Trump just accepted a $400 million bribe from a foreign government in the form of a Boeing 747. Imagine if Joe Biden did that."

And:

"Donald Trump just accepted a $400 million bribe from a foreign government in the form of a Boeing 747. Joe Biden didn't do that."

The first example asks you to imagine Joe Biden breaking the law, in order to make a false comparison between Trump and Biden. But Trump and Biden are at opposite ends of the moral spectrum -- so why plant the seed in someone's mind that Biden is the same as Trump? The second example, however, sets up a direct comparison between the two, and highlights that moral void.

So my suggestion is to avoid telling people to imagine Biden or Obama committing the same crimes as Trump, and instead point out that Biden and Obama HAVE NOT committed the same crimes as Trump.

... and that's my 2 cents.

82 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A humble suggestion [View all] EarlG May 15 OP
Heartily recommended! Drum May 15 #1
Perfect Roy Rolling May 15 #39
A compelling point. Torchlight May 15 #2
Thanks EarlG. Good messaging tip. c-rational May 15 #3
Thanks Earl! kentuck May 15 #4
I hear you. CuriousSavage May 15 #5
excellent suggestion! markie May 15 #6
Good point malaise May 15 #7
Highly recommended democrank May 15 #8
As always EarlG BOSSHOG May 15 #9
how about this: imagine if the media held republicans to the same standard to which they hold democrats. unblock May 15 #10
Kicked and recommended Uncle Joe May 15 #11
Excellent suggestion! Here is my suggestion: FuzzyRabbit May 15 #12
Yes. That's why I write "tariff taxes" as much as I can instead of "tariffs". Stuff like that. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 15 #56
Completely agree. That "Imagine if . . . " phraseology has always bothered me. wordstroken May 15 #13
A well explained suggestion - thank you. yellow dahlia May 15 #14
Good idea senseandsensibility May 15 #15
Excellent refinement to Earl's great point. TheRickles May 15 #18
Yes. Let's not put Obama and Biden in the same breath as Grump Gum Logger May 15 #16
I like it duhneece May 15 #17
Makes perfect sense, thanks. mcar May 15 #19
Debate team experience? Gimpyknee May 15 #20
Got it! ReRe May 15 #21
I couldn't agree more EarlG. JMCKUSICK May 15 #22
The third thing is that sometimes Obama or Biden DID the thing Trump is accused of. Ms. Toad May 15 #23
Thank you, seriously. Raine1967 May 15 #24
Noted. Well Stated too. ZDU May 15 #25
Good suggestion, thanks PatSeg May 15 #26
I agree. LoisB May 15 #27
Excellent point Earl! I knew there was something that bothered me about those specific imagine if statements, KPN May 15 #28
Thank you for putting my thoughts into words. I couldn't figure out how to say this. chowder66 May 15 #29
A fair point, indeed. Basso8vb May 15 #30
True! RoseTrellis May 15 #31
Agree! Norrrm May 15 #32
Well Done ProfessorGAC May 15 #33
Narative/messaging made in our favor. magicarpet May 15 #34
Instead try "No other president has ever broken the law like this" mdbl May 15 #35
Slightly better BWdem4life May 15 #62
That covers every response mdbl May 15 #67
This is an excellent suggestion! ShazzieB May 15 #36
Well put! My version is..... DFW May 15 #37
AMEN, Brother!!! EXCELLENT suggestion. Stinky The Clown May 15 #38
I agree in principle, however I believe they will counter with steelyboo May 15 #40
A very wise observation and suggestion. I've probably been guilty of this, but it is important how language is used. NNadir May 15 #41
How about instead of "Joe Biden didn't do that," Joe Biden would never have done that? Native May 15 #42
Yep. Messaging is not only what you say. calimary May 15 #43
Let's add "Biden/Obama/etc. NEVER would've done it" DinahMoeHum May 15 #44
Your 2 cents is worth a lot to all of us FakeNoose May 15 #45
Strongly recommended! H2O Man May 15 #46
Your two cents makes sense and I would suggest also hammering them on the obvious corruption surfered May 15 #47
K&R red dog 1 May 15 #48
I Like It.. TY, EarlG! Cha May 15 #49
Agree Meowmee May 15 #50
I agree 💯 benfranklin1776 May 15 #51
Splendid counsel EarlG. Thank You! George McGovern May 15 #52
Obama/Biden didn't and wouldn't do those things. Festivito May 15 #53
Completely agree. Thank you! Joinfortmill May 15 #54
Agree. WORDS MATTER. NoMoreRepugs May 15 #55
I've seen posters on Xitter going on about how Obama got a gift of cufflinks, Crunchy Frog May 15 #57
dng. AllaN01Bear May 15 #58
No form of rhetoric.... kundalinisnake May 15 #59
Thank you. MuseRider May 15 #60
Signed in just to say you're dreaming BWdem4life May 15 #61
"They can't be reasoned with, period." Paladin May 16 #80
I always read your posts for clear thinking, and you haven't disappointed me yet. I second this post!! planetc May 15 #63
Thank you 1000 times for this. It's a pet peeve of mine. Hekate May 15 #64
Solid idea. NH Ethylene May 15 #65
Yup, definitely agree. Magoo48 May 15 #66
Excellent correction. Consider it done. Clouds Passing May 15 #68
Messaging is extremely important. live love laugh May 15 #69
Right? It feels obvious to me, but maybe it's cuz I'm old as dirt and so no, I don't ever imagine Obama or Biden doing msfiddlestix May 15 #70
K&R spanone May 15 #71
You are 100% correct. Messaging matters! CaptainTruth May 15 #72
absolutely AGREE ! Every jot and tittle ! Totally spot on ! -(nt)- stopdiggin May 15 #73
Solid advice Picaro May 15 #74
Very good points. mountain grammy May 15 #75
Excellent WyLoochka May 15 #76
nailed it proud patriot May 16 #77
Agreed, but I would suggest not limiting this to Obama / Biden et al. Abolishinist May 16 #78
Exactly 👍 excellent choice of words TommieMommy May 16 #79
K&R BobTheSubgenius May 16 #81
Love this Earl G.! Dem4life1970 May 16 #82
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