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TPaine7

(4,286 posts)
Wed Dec 19, 2012, 05:09 PM Dec 2012

What I Fear, What Made Me Drag my Feet on Gun Control: Brady-Style Gun Control [View all]

Last edited Sat Dec 22, 2012, 11:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Why have I been so strongly opposed to gun control?

First I would like to be clear that some commonly cited reasons are low on my list.

Contrary to popular belief, the Second Amendment was intended to protect against government abuse. But that is a minor reason for me personally. Talk of armed revolution is unwarranted. Americans don’t have any excuse to dream of armed revolution when we can’t even be bothered to use EASY, peaceful methods to make our government stop reading our e-mails and listening to our phone conversations. We apparently have no problem with government feeling us up and looking at our naked bodies at airports; how can we pretend to be revolutionaries?

People who don’t value their rights enough to pressure their Senators and President don’t start revolutions. So if anybody starts fighting the government, they will be a ragtag group of outliers, not America. Only after America fully exhausts her peaceful power should she even consider armed action.

My personal safety is not a huge concern, either. I am fortunate to live and conduct most of my business in a low crime area. I don’t live in terror of a home invasion or mugging, though I know crime is possible anywhere.

No, these are not my motivators. My concern is primarily for others. As a person who has know folks who were victimized by crime, and has been privileged to listen to intense intimate accounts of brutal savagery perpetrated on innocent victims (including a close relative), I want to live in a country that does not deny people the right—and the means, without which the right is meaningless—to defend themselves.

Now there is a lot of talk by good and decent people about “reasonable,” “common sense,” “sensible” gun control. The Brady Campaign, powerful politicians, leaders and anti-gun scholars have also used these terms, but they haven’t always meant what you might think.

I can’t tell you exactly what the Brady Campaign and their fellow travelers mean (meant), but I can get close.

As the Parker case (the case that became the Heller case) was working its way through the courts, I went to the Brady Campaign website to see how the District of Columbia was rated.

The Brady Campaign maintained a grading system somewhat like the NRA’s. DC had a higher rating than any state in the union. DC’s grade was in the “B” range; if I recall correctly, the exact grade was a “B- “.

In other words, the District’s gun control, though not flawless enough to get an “A” was close.

And what was close to perfect? Here are descriptions of the laws, as outlined in an open letter I wrote to Obama at the time (these laws were overturned by Heller):

D.C. Code § 7-2502 says that no one can possess or control a firearm unless they have a valid registration certificate for the firearm. Registration certificates are available for rifles and shotguns, but D.C. Code § 7- 2502.02(a) forbids issuing a registration certificate for any pistol that was not registered to the current registrant in the District prior to September 24, 1976.


D.C. Code § 7-2507.02 requires that registrants keep all firearms in their possession “unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock or similar device.” The only exceptions are for guns kept at a place of business and guns being used for lawful recreational purposes within the district.


It is illegal to move a lawfully registered pistol on your own property. D.C. Code § 22-3204, an old law, once made an exception for people moving a gun within their own home or business or on their own land. The new law, D.C. Code § 22-4504, forbids any carrying of a handgun, even in your own house or business or on your own land.


“{W}ith very rare exceptions licenses to carry pistols have not been issued in the District of Columbia for many years and are virtually unobtainable.” Bsharah v. United States, 646 A.2d 993, 996 n.12 (D.C. 1994).
Quoted at http://www.scotusblog.com/movabletype/archives/Parker_cross_petition.pdf app. 18, no 32.


“BTW, the issue in Heller is not the trigger lock requirement per se. It's that the there is no exception allowing the gun to be unlocked in a self-defense emergency; in the 1977 case of McIntosh v. Washington, the D.C. Court of Appeals upheld the home self-defense ban against challenges that it violated equal protection and the common law right of self-defense. The McIntosh court agreed with D.C's lawyers and recognized the statute as an absolute ban on home self-defense with any firearm; this was held to be rational because of the number of fatal gun accidents was (according to the McIntosh court) larger than the number justiable self-defense homicides with guns.”—David Kopel, Polls on handgun bans, March 16, 2008. http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_03_16-2008_03_22.shtml .


Of course, people can always call the police. Here is some DC legal history on that:

Illustrative of this {police} failure is the case of Warren v.District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. 1981.) In the late winter of 1975, three women (Warren, Taliaferro and Douglas, plus Douglas‟s four-year-old daughter) were asleep in a rooming house on Lamont Street, NW in the District. In the early morning hours, two burglars entered the property and raped Douglas. Warren and Taliaferro heard Douglas‟ screams and called the MPD at 6:23 a.m. to report a burglary in progress. They were assured police were on the way. At 6:26 a.m., three cruisers were dispatched to the rooming house on a “priority 2” call. One officer knocked on the door while other officers remained in their cruisers. Receiving no response at the door, the officers left. Warren and Taliaferro watched in horror from the roof of their building before crawling back into their room, where they continued to hear Douglas‟ screams. They called the MPD again at 6:42 a.m. and asked for immediate assistance. Again, they were told assistance was on the way. The dispatcher never dispatched additional police, unbeknownst to the two who yelled reassurance to Douglas and were, as a result, discovered by the burglars. All three women were then abducted at knifepoint and held prisoner for 14 additional hours, while being beaten, robbed, raped and directed to perform sex acts on each other.

All three women subsequently brought a tort action against the MPD for its failure to respond and protect them from the assaults. All three had their cases dismissed. Amicus Brief of Buckeye Firearms Foundation http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wpcontent/
uploads/2008/02/07-290_amicus_buckeye.pdf , 37-8.


Let's summarize the legal reality in DC, the “best in the nation” gun control regime that got a “B-” rating from the Brady Campaign:

You were legally required to pay for police protection, but the police had no obligation to protect you.

It was a crime in the District of Columbia to have a gun in your home that could actually shoot bullets. Guns were OK, as long as they were useless. In order to ensure their uselessness, they had to be kept unloaded. In order to be doubly sure, they had to be kept disassembled or bound by a trigger lock. Making a gun useful by assembling (or unlocking) and loading it was a crime. The excuse that you were trying to protect your family—or repel a rapist or avoid death—would not do.

These were the laws regarding long guns—rifles and shotguns. The situation with handguns was even worse.

You could not possess a handgun that you did not register before Sept 1976. Even if you had a registered handgun, you needed a special permit to move it from room to room in your own house. Permits were impossible to get. And of course your registered handgun had to remain useless at all times. (You could load guns kept at your place of business.)

Basically, if your family was being killed, raped, tortured, or kidnapped in your own house, you were forbidden by law to load a weapon to defend them (or yourself). You were, however, allowed to load a gun to protect your money and goods at your place of business.

If that earned a good grade from the Brady Campaign, what would earn a perfect score?

When I hear terms like “reasonable” “common sense” and “sensible” coming out of the mouths of the Brady Campaign, I know what they really mean. And while I think the odds of them getting what they want in toto are slim, they got close to “perfection” with the District of Columbia. I don’t want any Americans to be ruled by laws approved by the Brady Campaign and their fellow travelers.

There are things that can be done to keep unfit people from getting guns, things most people would gladly accept. But I don't trust the anti-gun leadership. I laid out the reason for extreme caution long ago:

It would be stupid to attempt to negotiate in “good faith” regarding the regulation of your rights, when the person across the table refuses to admit the existence of those rights.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=170607&mesg_id=172751

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Thank you for your thoughtful post.nt kelly1mm Dec 2012 #1
Alas, when I hear terms like “reasonable” “common sense” and “sensible” coming out of the mouths of villager Dec 2012 #2
Too bad so many dragged their feet while continuing to promote more guns. Hoyt Dec 2012 #3
I promote rights, not guns. TPaine7 Dec 2012 #5
George Wallace and Strom Thurmond used to say crud like that. Hoyt Dec 2012 #8
And a defense of unchecked gun proliferation, at this point, is about as historically astute villager Dec 2012 #26
I agree with you. nt Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #18
By your own admission, those "rights" were never intended to apply to self defense Major Nikon Dec 2012 #25
Pls check out post 38 nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #43
I'll go with justices Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer Major Nikon Dec 2012 #45
The guys I cited WROTE the Constitution. The Fourteenth Amendment is constitutionally correct TPaine7 Dec 2012 #46
And the people I cited were the most liberal justices at the time Major Nikon Dec 2012 #47
There is no need to ignore anything, and Scalia wasn't born when the Framer's wrote the 14th TPaine7 Dec 2012 #50
It all boils down to your opinion Major Nikon Dec 2012 #53
I thought the Republicans had all of the climate change deniers... TPaine7 Dec 2012 #57
So anyone who disagrees with Scalia is equivelant to a climate change denier? Major Nikon Dec 2012 #66
LOL! TPaine7 Dec 2012 #70
Why would you support a Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #80
"or modification." I haven't really thought the details through, but modification of the Second TPaine7 Dec 2012 #81
Do you have any idea Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #82
I'm confused. You spoke in your last post about "sport shooting enthusiasts." TPaine7 Dec 2012 #84
Assault weapon competitions Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #87
"Weapons of war do not belong in the hands of private citizens, period." TPaine7 Dec 2012 #88
Okay. Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #89
No, solutions must be rooted in reality. Amending the Constitiution would actually achieve your TPaine7 Dec 2012 #90
Have you had a discussion yet Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #91
You can license the person instead of the weapon, and require record keeping. TPaine7 Dec 2012 #92
I think that most people have said that... Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #93
I think you mischaracterize the debate... TPaine7 Dec 2012 #94
No, I don't think I mischaracterize anything. Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #95
Of course... TPaine7 Dec 2012 #96
See how easy that was? Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #97
This message was self-deleted by its author bongbong Dec 2012 #4
300 million guns in the US. Are we safe yet? neverforget Dec 2012 #6
No, of course not. Lets have a few million more. baldguy Dec 2012 #12
+1 ellisonz Dec 2012 #61
They sure worked well protecting Lanza's Mother...Didn't they? world wide wally Dec 2012 #76
Hence you have the modern day NRA Glassunion Dec 2012 #7
I'll take the 1920s NRA. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #10
They actually "supported" the Brady Bill IIRC. Glassunion Dec 2012 #22
For somebody using Thomas Paine's name as a handle nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #9
The founders meant militias, nor people. So you want original intent, that's what they meant RantinRavin Dec 2012 #13
Did you learn about dependent clauses in HS English? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #14
Federalist 29 is not the only one RantinRavin Dec 2012 #16
Still the historic context is militias and distrust of a standing army nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #17
Please interpret another constitutional provision of the era. TPaine7 Dec 2012 #38
I hate to point this out buddy nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #54
I thought Democrats—Democrats on DU at least—were not rooted, intellectually speaking, TPaine7 Dec 2012 #55
I recommend you read the editorial nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #56
"We fought a civil war. I just hope we don't have to fight another one." TPaine7 Dec 2012 #58
Yes you are on DU nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #62
the poster hasn't 'screamed' or 'pounced' at all. he gave a well-grounded calm argument. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #69
I'm with Thomas. k2qb3 Dec 2012 #23
That's nice. But he was also aware nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #24
Gun control laws should be common. "No discharge of weapons in town" (except in legitimate defense) TPaine7 Dec 2012 #44
i am sorry you feel that nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #48
1934 laws are beside the point, the point being laws of the founding era—the era of Thomas Paine nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #71
Ah a certain founding father nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #72
What in the world are you talking about? TPaine7 Dec 2012 #73
Thomas Jefferson nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #83
I prefer to think like a person living in this century and looking ahead to next. Hoyt Dec 2012 #34
Like DC did before Heller? TPaine7 Dec 2012 #59
I'm with JA Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #79
And I am with both... TPaine7 Dec 2012 #85
I read it that way too. Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #86
How very magnanimous of you. sadbear Dec 2012 #11
It is them who want more guns. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #15
You have no idea how magnanimous I am. TPaine7 Dec 2012 #37
So when Occupy decides to carry openly their weapons, you will finally take them seriously. madinmaryland Dec 2012 #19
It seems to me that the strongest gun rights supporters were most eager to give up other rights Fumesucker Dec 2012 #20
You are lumping everyone in with NRA supporters. Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #28
Gun owners allowed the NRA to become their public face, so be it Fumesucker Dec 2012 #33
Do you accept the Brady Campaign as your public face? nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #60
I don't have a problem with it Fumesucker Dec 2012 #67
Ok then, you are properly grouped with those who think the pre-Heller DC legal regime TPaine7 Dec 2012 #74
So, do you or do you not agree with the old DC legal regime? nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #36
Do you have any idea why Brady gave DC a B- , GeorgeGist Dec 2012 #21
They were not strict enough, I guess. nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #39
Excellent post to point out this aspect of guns. I'm a woman living alone. I know. nt Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #27
Why is it nearly always the barely literate that invariably insist that their interpretation of Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #29
Is your question rhetorical, or are you going to explain the thinking of the barely literate to TPaine7 Dec 2012 #35
My apologies. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #63
Accepted. nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #65
All I ask TPaine is that you take "attack by SOA" out of the equation. Loudly Dec 2012 #30
I don't think so. Machine guns can be heavily regulated and even banned per Heller. TPaine7 Dec 2012 #42
So, you are one of those that thinks that by carrying NashvilleLefty Dec 2012 #31
Yes, I believe in magic. And shooting guns out of someone's hand was the subject of the OP. nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #40
So in summary you are an RKBA absolutist. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #32
Are you a Brady absolutist? Do you believe that DC's gun laws were too permissive for an "A"? nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #41
You want know what I fear? Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2012 #49
I also fear that, though obviously not as much as you do. TPaine7 Dec 2012 #51
What some people want is for mass shootings or home invasions to never happen. Jennicut Dec 2012 #52
Thanks for a thoughtful, rational post. nt TPaine7 Dec 2012 #64
yes, the devil's always in the details. one reason i'm leary of new regulations is because so HiPointDem Dec 2012 #68
I thought DC's strict GC laws predated Brady? hootinholler Dec 2012 #75
What "made" you drag your feetl? Did you mean what "makes" you drag your feet? merrily Dec 2012 #77
I support, and have supported, several ways to prevent crimes like the recent shooting. TPaine7 Dec 2012 #78
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