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BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)

40. At some point we have to ask how much worse Romney would have been

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:41 AM

Dec 2012

Don't get me wrong. Romney would be worse. It is always better to control the White House, especially with regard to SCOTUS appointments. But let's look at it realistically. Romney would have given the billionaires 100% of the tax cut. Obama is willing to give them 3/4 of that. Romney would have tried to privatize Social Security and voucherize Medicare. But that would have ended up in a giant collision and would not have past the Senate. So in fact, Romney would probably be doing something to Social Security roughly equal to the impact of chained CPI.

When do we see the benefits of actually winning this election?

The thing that makes me the most angry is that this is the last, best chance for progress. This is the point of maximum leverage. Absent "some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor", Obama will never have this much leverage in the last 4 years. And this is what he does with it?

Worst.
Negotiator.
Ever.

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I hold a straight forward opinion: Obama offered moving to Chained CPI because he's open to it [View all] Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 OP

So true. We got a reprieve. Nothing else. Republicans now know forestpath Dec 2012 #1

You cannot put the tooth paste back in the tube BlueStreak Dec 2012 #32

Perhaps PBO should have his election team go listen to why Americans R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #73

Here's Video of Obama in 2006 to Brookings Institute..that proves where he comes from.. KoKo Dec 2012 #141

Yes, that's our President, the man we put in office today Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #143

Bingo vi5 Dec 2012 #2

I agree that Obama was open to it, but I disagree that it is still viable. reformist2 Dec 2012 #3

You are approaching this matter from a different angle Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #6

We have yet to see him fight tooth and nail pscot Dec 2012 #21

True, but timing and momentum are very important in these things. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #36

Yep. There will be cuts Doctor_J Dec 2012 #4

Agreed... SHRED Dec 2012 #7

+1000 n/t whathehell Dec 2012 #12

+10,000 BlueStreak Dec 2012 #37

K&R..... daleanime Dec 2012 #67

Absolutely! n/t marew Dec 2012 #134

Applause Myrina Dec 2012 #26

You just don't understand.. sendero Dec 2012 #5

At some point we have to ask how much worse Romney would have been BlueStreak Dec 2012 #40

My standard of comparison.. sendero Dec 2012 #49

It is really shocking how easily he gives up on things BlueStreak Dec 2012 #60

In that respect, he is no different from most other politicians. subterranean Dec 2012 #107

I agree. He is just better at the rhetoric. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #111

I don't mind the weasel-words... sendero Dec 2012 #144

"Better position", true BlueStreak Dec 2012 #147

If "President" Romney (ugh) had proposed what President Obama just proposed ... dawg Dec 2012 #85

:) BlueStreak Dec 2012 #112

Here's the problem ProSense Dec 2012 #8

Yes Boehner didn't have the votes. But we've been through that door before Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #14

I guess you're ProSense Dec 2012 #29

It's luck when it happens over and over and over again....yeap, they call it luck uponit7771 Dec 2012 #33

The fact is neither of us can safely predict with certainty how variables will play out Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #46

So if it "obviously" was not a serious offer, woo me with science Dec 2012 #16

It appears that Pres Obama was willing to use SS benefit cuts as a bargaining tool. rhett o rick Dec 2012 #20

Let me explain the basics of negotiating. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #41

Oh, puh-leeze. Obama gave nothing away, Boner couldn't even get his own caucus to coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #106

OK. Tell me where you think the next round of negotiations STARTS BlueStreak Dec 2012 #113

What do you mean 'starts'? Legislation begins in the House. It's on Boner or his coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #136

Do you think they expect to go back to the $250K limit and no chained CPI? BlueStreak Dec 2012 #142

So then, we can expect Obama to remove the Chained CPI or anything that has sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #152

We've disagreed about this also in another thread, I think. I see it as Obama coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #155

I'm sorry, but he was not bluffing. Nancy Pelosi certianly doesn't think so sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #164

Obama's bluff meant nothing without the seeming backing of Pelosi and Hoyer. Obama gambled coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #165

I generally agree with your comments CU, so not big deal that on this we are sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #166

I actually agree with you almost always! :) So this may just be a glass half-full, half-empty coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #168

So now it "obviously wasn't a serious offer"? Marr Dec 2012 #63

the protecting the most vunerable part is for vets and those on disability. not others! SugarShack Dec 2012 #161

We are reacting to what Nancy Pelosi stated. Is she a liar, stupid, not sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #167

I feel that way too, not because I can get in his head, but because HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #9

"Only dishonest negotiators offer things they wouldn't accept." jsr Dec 2012 #24

In science, the simplest explanation is usually the best explanation and in this case Obama byeya Dec 2012 #10

I think it's important that Americans let him know that WE know... ProfessionalLeftist Dec 2012 #11

Meanwhile, by appearing conciliatory and open to negotiation, the President's support grows.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #13

Ya talking about me, Mister? Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #15

Yes, I'm talking to you DIRECTLY and PLAINLY, and I'm not going to be intimidated by you.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #19

"no matter what the President does, certain extremists on this board will NEVER support him." Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #25

Backing down are we? You're the one who acted like I was accusing you directly.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #38

You responded to my thread so I asked you if you included me personally Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #53

You attacked me personally and I responded in kind. You can dish it out but can't take it. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #105

Where were you personally attacked? Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #114

he heaven05 Dec 2012 #89

Voting for him wasn't enough? UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #17

Unless you're one of the "extremists" I mentioned in my post, my comments shouldn't.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #22

Is calling him a "lying republican" the day after he was re-elected what you consider criticism?..nt SidDithers Dec 2012 #35

Are you a Democrat? I think that is a fair question. Are you even eligible to be a Democrat? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #42

... SidDithers Dec 2012 #52

"Whatever the question"? The questions are "Are you a Democrat?" "Are you even eligible AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #57

... SidDithers Dec 2012 #68

I think you're evasiveness confirms that you are not a Democrat and not eligible to be a Democrat. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #71

... SidDithers Dec 2012 #88

You say, "Whatever the question, guns are not the answer". That's not what Canadians said in 1812. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #74

USA! USA! USA! Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #75

"DEMOCRATIC Underground." "DEMOCRATIC Underground." "DEMOCRATIC Underground." Got it? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #76

... Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #79

Were you home schooled? Are you still in school? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #86

Home schooled? Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #103

Sid in interjecting his opinin about programs that are hugely important to millions of Americans Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #121

You're right. I, too, have been to many countries. I wouldn't even think about trying to influence AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #156

I think by now most people realize that there are certain people here who sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #157

Here, you dropped this. Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #160

. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #101

It's like having a discussion with the joker on Batman. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #93

You're right. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #96

Glass houses, etc.... Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #99

This post was alerted on. The jury voted 5/1 to let it stand. ohiosmith Dec 2012 #110

Thanks. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #115

Good jury decision. sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #162

. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #100

Excellent question, especially since many of us did more than that --donated, volunteered, etc. whathehell Dec 2012 #92

What difference does that make? BlueStreak Dec 2012 #43

Thank you. n/t whathehell Dec 2012 #95

That's the stupidest thing I've read here all day. woo me with science Dec 2012 #77

What's even more interesting is how many DU posters objected to the word "extremist"..... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #151

Two things ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #97

How does a Democratic President support 'grow' by offering to cut SS? sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #158

I don't think a lot of the people questioning the presidents chained cpi proposal are extremists. Arcanetrance Dec 2012 #122

Your post was alerted Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #123

For the record - I was not the allerter Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #146

Ha! Thanks for the heads-up! nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #149

Wait, now. Are those like me who supported him, yet question his policies...extremists? madfloridian Dec 2012 #139

for every other politician in the world Enrique Dec 2012 #18

I'd like to cop a plea on that charge pscot Dec 2012 #30

I would agree, if by "fantasy Obama" you mean "Obama the Orator" BlueStreak Dec 2012 #44

I respectfully disagree that he stands for nothing. merrily Dec 2012 #70

Or could it be Tom that you are reacting to only a smart part of the equation? grantcart Dec 2012 #23

Thank You buzzroller Dec 2012 #48

I was going to welcome you to DU but you seem to be around since 2003 grantcart Dec 2012 #50

Thanks for the welcome buzzroller Dec 2012 #55

grantcard, of course nothing has been nailed down yet, talk about stating the obvious Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #65

First of all lets get some of the terms correct grantcart Dec 2012 #98

You are crossing OP's, which is fine, but it complicates responding. Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #124

Yer killin' me... cliffordu Dec 2012 #125

Thats bad policy DJ13 Dec 2012 #133

The key words in that exchange was "I don't know...". So, we have a reporter and another plethoro Dec 2012 #78

Nicely stated. Thank you. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #153

Of course you are right. woo me with science Dec 2012 #27

You don't gamble with things you are not willing to lose. And Pelosi - shame on you. jillan Dec 2012 #28

+1 Liberalynn Dec 2012 #34

Best succinct summary I have seen. woo me with science Dec 2012 #39

+1 leftstreet Dec 2012 #118

Absolutely correct! marew Dec 2012 #135

****LOFL**** People are wrong >>AGAIN<< and offer conjecture as facts... uponit7771 Dec 2012 #31

Unnecessary as DU is all speculation...the Principle of Parsimony should rule HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #56

Meanwhile, John Boehner lays weeping in a pool of his own sick. JoePhilly Dec 2012 #45

you cling to that bigtree Dec 2012 #47

Oh, I would say there IS another scalp hfojvt Dec 2012 #51

Once again... Aviation Pro Dec 2012 #54

BS to this SS deal 4 more years Dec 2012 #58

If what you say is true, and it may indeed be true, then the majority of plethoro Dec 2012 #59

"Renege" is the spelling. WinkyDink Dec 2012 #145

I changed it. I thought renege was French... plethoro Dec 2012 #150

We're still waiting for a "check" in the President's game of inter-dimensional chess... Romulox Dec 2012 #61

So Tom are you also against the 5% offset? grantcart Dec 2012 #62

I responded above grantcart Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #72

Yes he is open to it, and it is a sellout, ... CRH Dec 2012 #64

And I'm ok with that, because it is very easy to implement without harm bhikkhu Dec 2012 #66

Means testing is not at all a liberal view when it comes to Social Security. merrily Dec 2012 #80

"Means testing" IS welfare duffyduff Dec 2012 #84

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #116

In this case, it would use an already progressive tax policy to keep income the same bhikkhu Dec 2012 #91

Aside from the rest of it, your method would be unjust to those of us the tax code already treats Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #119

K&R 99Forever Dec 2012 #69

Third Way recommended Chained CPI in 2011, if not before. merrily Dec 2012 #81

If you know, did Third Way recommend more than just a chained CPI? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #94

Here is their complete plan from 2011. madfloridian Dec 2012 #127

Thank you. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #129

still heaven05 Dec 2012 #82

yep, so obvious even a caveman could figure it out stupidicus Dec 2012 #83

A well thought out post. Autumn Dec 2012 #87

Why anyone would just "believe" in a politician is nuts fascisthunter Dec 2012 #90

Can Obama raise social security payments in 2014 if we can take over the House which would negate judesedit Dec 2012 #102

In addition I'd like to say I like the CPI idea where nursing homes are concerned. They take every judesedit Dec 2012 #104

Robert Greenstein buzzroller Dec 2012 #108

He comes across as fair to me, simply explaining how and why things turn out as they do Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #138

I believe that also, Tom Rinaldo. Recommended. madfloridian Dec 2012 #109

Thanks Mad, it's been good reading you here lately... Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #140

everyone else's opinion is conjecture La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2012 #117

There's opinion, and then there's reality ecstatic Dec 2012 #120

Madness! MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #126

Very well said. limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #128

Here's an example of how dead chained CPI is, and why it should be. ProSense Dec 2012 #130

You're right in that this is the more likely interpretation. randome Dec 2012 #131

K&R closeupready Dec 2012 #132

So you are judging Obama on what he says SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #137

When someone offers to have sex with you, it means they WANT to have sex with you. jsr Dec 2012 #148

I have to disagree and I'm Blue_Roses Dec 2012 #159

Is he simply a better liar than Romney? Same policy--better lies? Evergreen Emerald Dec 2012 #154

I hold no illusions... DryHump Dec 2012 #163