General Discussion

plethoro

(594 posts)

59. If what you say is true, and it may indeed be true, then the majority of

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 11:14 AM

Dec 2012

Last edited Sat Dec 22, 2012, 12:54 PM - Edit history (1)

the people on this board, yea in the electorate-- miscalculated this President at both their peril and his. When a President and a Vice President and a Democratic Speaker make a promise that Social Security, the Number One Demcratic achievement in history WILL NOT be touched, then renege on that promise, it WILL result in a bloodbath for Democrats in 2014 and a loss without the blood in 2016--no matter what the Republicans do during the intervening time between now and the next contest. This is a defining moment for the Democratic Party. Two weeks before Christmas at a time when 20-30 per cent of the people think the world may be coming to an end, can't find work, are hearing the country is going over a cliff, the President blithely offers to cut Social Security affecting the least among us the most. Whether it was honest bagaining, a chess move, a checkers move, an earnest wish, whatever, it is one of the dumbest moves I have ever seen since 1960. Had we lost the recent election by 20 points, I'd understand a little more, but we won, did we not? The hidden text here is What is Really this President's agenda with respect to what is badly referred to as entitlements?

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I hold a straight forward opinion: Obama offered moving to Chained CPI because he's open to it [View all] Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 OP

So true. We got a reprieve. Nothing else. Republicans now know forestpath Dec 2012 #1

You cannot put the tooth paste back in the tube BlueStreak Dec 2012 #32

Perhaps PBO should have his election team go listen to why Americans R. Daneel Olivaw Dec 2012 #73

Here's Video of Obama in 2006 to Brookings Institute..that proves where he comes from.. KoKo Dec 2012 #141

Yes, that's our President, the man we put in office today Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #143

Bingo vi5 Dec 2012 #2

I agree that Obama was open to it, but I disagree that it is still viable. reformist2 Dec 2012 #3

You are approaching this matter from a different angle Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #6

We have yet to see him fight tooth and nail pscot Dec 2012 #21

True, but timing and momentum are very important in these things. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #36

Yep. There will be cuts Doctor_J Dec 2012 #4

Agreed... SHRED Dec 2012 #7

+1000 n/t whathehell Dec 2012 #12

+10,000 BlueStreak Dec 2012 #37

K&R..... daleanime Dec 2012 #67

Absolutely! n/t marew Dec 2012 #134

Applause Myrina Dec 2012 #26

You just don't understand.. sendero Dec 2012 #5

At some point we have to ask how much worse Romney would have been BlueStreak Dec 2012 #40

My standard of comparison.. sendero Dec 2012 #49

It is really shocking how easily he gives up on things BlueStreak Dec 2012 #60

In that respect, he is no different from most other politicians. subterranean Dec 2012 #107

I agree. He is just better at the rhetoric. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #111

I don't mind the weasel-words... sendero Dec 2012 #144

"Better position", true BlueStreak Dec 2012 #147

If "President" Romney (ugh) had proposed what President Obama just proposed ... dawg Dec 2012 #85

:) BlueStreak Dec 2012 #112

Here's the problem ProSense Dec 2012 #8

Yes Boehner didn't have the votes. But we've been through that door before Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #14

I guess you're ProSense Dec 2012 #29

It's luck when it happens over and over and over again....yeap, they call it luck uponit7771 Dec 2012 #33

The fact is neither of us can safely predict with certainty how variables will play out Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #46

So if it "obviously" was not a serious offer, woo me with science Dec 2012 #16

It appears that Pres Obama was willing to use SS benefit cuts as a bargaining tool. rhett o rick Dec 2012 #20

Let me explain the basics of negotiating. BlueStreak Dec 2012 #41

Oh, puh-leeze. Obama gave nothing away, Boner couldn't even get his own caucus to coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #106

OK. Tell me where you think the next round of negotiations STARTS BlueStreak Dec 2012 #113

What do you mean 'starts'? Legislation begins in the House. It's on Boner or his coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #136

Do you think they expect to go back to the $250K limit and no chained CPI? BlueStreak Dec 2012 #142

So then, we can expect Obama to remove the Chained CPI or anything that has sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #152

We've disagreed about this also in another thread, I think. I see it as Obama coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #155

I'm sorry, but he was not bluffing. Nancy Pelosi certianly doesn't think so sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #164

Obama's bluff meant nothing without the seeming backing of Pelosi and Hoyer. Obama gambled coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #165

I generally agree with your comments CU, so not big deal that on this we are sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #166

I actually agree with you almost always! :) So this may just be a glass half-full, half-empty coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #168

So now it "obviously wasn't a serious offer"? Marr Dec 2012 #63

the protecting the most vunerable part is for vets and those on disability. not others! SugarShack Dec 2012 #161

We are reacting to what Nancy Pelosi stated. Is she a liar, stupid, not sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #167

I feel that way too, not because I can get in his head, but because HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #9

"Only dishonest negotiators offer things they wouldn't accept." jsr Dec 2012 #24

In science, the simplest explanation is usually the best explanation and in this case Obama byeya Dec 2012 #10

I think it's important that Americans let him know that WE know... ProfessionalLeftist Dec 2012 #11

Meanwhile, by appearing conciliatory and open to negotiation, the President's support grows.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #13

Ya talking about me, Mister? Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #15

Yes, I'm talking to you DIRECTLY and PLAINLY, and I'm not going to be intimidated by you.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #19

"no matter what the President does, certain extremists on this board will NEVER support him." Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #25

Backing down are we? You're the one who acted like I was accusing you directly.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #38

You responded to my thread so I asked you if you included me personally Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #53

You attacked me personally and I responded in kind. You can dish it out but can't take it. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #105

Where were you personally attacked? Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #114

he heaven05 Dec 2012 #89

Voting for him wasn't enough? UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #17

Unless you're one of the "extremists" I mentioned in my post, my comments shouldn't.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #22

Is calling him a "lying republican" the day after he was re-elected what you consider criticism?..nt SidDithers Dec 2012 #35

Are you a Democrat? I think that is a fair question. Are you even eligible to be a Democrat? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #42

... SidDithers Dec 2012 #52

"Whatever the question"? The questions are "Are you a Democrat?" "Are you even eligible AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #57

... SidDithers Dec 2012 #68

I think you're evasiveness confirms that you are not a Democrat and not eligible to be a Democrat. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #71

... SidDithers Dec 2012 #88

You say, "Whatever the question, guns are not the answer". That's not what Canadians said in 1812. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #74

USA! USA! USA! Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #75

"DEMOCRATIC Underground." "DEMOCRATIC Underground." "DEMOCRATIC Underground." Got it? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #76

... Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #79

Were you home schooled? Are you still in school? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #86

Home schooled? Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #103

Sid in interjecting his opinin about programs that are hugely important to millions of Americans Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #121

You're right. I, too, have been to many countries. I wouldn't even think about trying to influence AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #156

I think by now most people realize that there are certain people here who sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #157

Here, you dropped this. Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #160

. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #101

It's like having a discussion with the joker on Batman. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #93

You're right. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #96

Glass houses, etc.... Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #99

This post was alerted on. The jury voted 5/1 to let it stand. ohiosmith Dec 2012 #110

Thanks. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #115

Good jury decision. sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #162

. UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2012 #100

Excellent question, especially since many of us did more than that --donated, volunteered, etc. whathehell Dec 2012 #92

What difference does that make? BlueStreak Dec 2012 #43

Thank you. n/t whathehell Dec 2012 #95

That's the stupidest thing I've read here all day. woo me with science Dec 2012 #77

What's even more interesting is how many DU posters objected to the word "extremist"..... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #151

Two things ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #97

How does a Democratic President support 'grow' by offering to cut SS? sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #158

I don't think a lot of the people questioning the presidents chained cpi proposal are extremists. Arcanetrance Dec 2012 #122

Your post was alerted Bobbie Jo Dec 2012 #123

For the record - I was not the allerter Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #146

Ha! Thanks for the heads-up! nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #149

Wait, now. Are those like me who supported him, yet question his policies...extremists? madfloridian Dec 2012 #139

for every other politician in the world Enrique Dec 2012 #18

I'd like to cop a plea on that charge pscot Dec 2012 #30

I would agree, if by "fantasy Obama" you mean "Obama the Orator" BlueStreak Dec 2012 #44

I respectfully disagree that he stands for nothing. merrily Dec 2012 #70

Or could it be Tom that you are reacting to only a smart part of the equation? grantcart Dec 2012 #23

Thank You buzzroller Dec 2012 #48

I was going to welcome you to DU but you seem to be around since 2003 grantcart Dec 2012 #50

Thanks for the welcome buzzroller Dec 2012 #55

grantcard, of course nothing has been nailed down yet, talk about stating the obvious Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #65

First of all lets get some of the terms correct grantcart Dec 2012 #98

You are crossing OP's, which is fine, but it complicates responding. Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #124

Yer killin' me... cliffordu Dec 2012 #125

Thats bad policy DJ13 Dec 2012 #133

The key words in that exchange was "I don't know...". So, we have a reporter and another plethoro Dec 2012 #78

Nicely stated. Thank you. nt. OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #153

Of course you are right. woo me with science Dec 2012 #27

You don't gamble with things you are not willing to lose. And Pelosi - shame on you. jillan Dec 2012 #28

+1 Liberalynn Dec 2012 #34

Best succinct summary I have seen. woo me with science Dec 2012 #39

+1 leftstreet Dec 2012 #118

Absolutely correct! marew Dec 2012 #135

****LOFL**** People are wrong >>AGAIN<< and offer conjecture as facts... uponit7771 Dec 2012 #31

Unnecessary as DU is all speculation...the Principle of Parsimony should rule HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #56

Meanwhile, John Boehner lays weeping in a pool of his own sick. JoePhilly Dec 2012 #45

you cling to that bigtree Dec 2012 #47

Oh, I would say there IS another scalp hfojvt Dec 2012 #51

Once again... Aviation Pro Dec 2012 #54

BS to this SS deal 4 more years Dec 2012 #58

If what you say is true, and it may indeed be true, then the majority of plethoro Dec 2012 #59

"Renege" is the spelling. WinkyDink Dec 2012 #145

I changed it. I thought renege was French... plethoro Dec 2012 #150

We're still waiting for a "check" in the President's game of inter-dimensional chess... Romulox Dec 2012 #61

So Tom are you also against the 5% offset? grantcart Dec 2012 #62

I responded above grantcart Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #72

Yes he is open to it, and it is a sellout, ... CRH Dec 2012 #64

And I'm ok with that, because it is very easy to implement without harm bhikkhu Dec 2012 #66

Means testing is not at all a liberal view when it comes to Social Security. merrily Dec 2012 #80

"Means testing" IS welfare duffyduff Dec 2012 #84

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #116

In this case, it would use an already progressive tax policy to keep income the same bhikkhu Dec 2012 #91

Aside from the rest of it, your method would be unjust to those of us the tax code already treats Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #119

K&R 99Forever Dec 2012 #69

Third Way recommended Chained CPI in 2011, if not before. merrily Dec 2012 #81

If you know, did Third Way recommend more than just a chained CPI? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #94

Here is their complete plan from 2011. madfloridian Dec 2012 #127

Thank you. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #129

still heaven05 Dec 2012 #82

yep, so obvious even a caveman could figure it out stupidicus Dec 2012 #83

A well thought out post. Autumn Dec 2012 #87

Why anyone would just "believe" in a politician is nuts fascisthunter Dec 2012 #90

Can Obama raise social security payments in 2014 if we can take over the House which would negate judesedit Dec 2012 #102

In addition I'd like to say I like the CPI idea where nursing homes are concerned. They take every judesedit Dec 2012 #104

Robert Greenstein buzzroller Dec 2012 #108

He comes across as fair to me, simply explaining how and why things turn out as they do Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #138

I believe that also, Tom Rinaldo. Recommended. madfloridian Dec 2012 #109

Thanks Mad, it's been good reading you here lately... Tom Rinaldo Dec 2012 #140

everyone else's opinion is conjecture La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2012 #117

There's opinion, and then there's reality ecstatic Dec 2012 #120

Madness! MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #126

Very well said. limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #128

Here's an example of how dead chained CPI is, and why it should be. ProSense Dec 2012 #130

You're right in that this is the more likely interpretation. randome Dec 2012 #131

K&R closeupready Dec 2012 #132

So you are judging Obama on what he says SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #137

When someone offers to have sex with you, it means they WANT to have sex with you. jsr Dec 2012 #148

I have to disagree and I'm Blue_Roses Dec 2012 #159

Is he simply a better liar than Romney? Same policy--better lies? Evergreen Emerald Dec 2012 #154

I hold no illusions... DryHump Dec 2012 #163