I hold a straight forward opinion: Obama offered moving to Chained CPI because he's open to it

[Tom Rinaldo]

124. You are crossing OP's, which is fine, but it complicates responding.

When I get time, hopefully today but maybe not, I am planning another OP regarding my feelings about reducing Social Security benefits for budgetary reasons. But to be direct with you, no I do not regret my earlier OP. I do not feel it is morally right to even offer to reduce Social Security benefits in future years while simultaneously offering to pass NEW legislation giving tax cuts to those making over $250,000 a year. Usually I am very wordy and I suspect often that keeps some from actually reading my OP's when they click on them.

I am outraged by that concept grantcart, and that time I chose to lead with my emotions for a change. But I was also willing to sit by my computer and engage in a thorough discussion for hours about what lay behind my anger, and why it boiled down to that for me in this case. I don't apologize for the anger I felt, but I chose to move on from there with this OP today rather than keep adding to the latter. I passed on several easy opportunities to kick it again today, but like with most things, I think it better for discussion to move forward rather than fixate on any prior moment, especially one laden with emotion - including righteous anger.

To say that there is no evidence that Obama has caved on tax cuts on the rich or stands ready to raid Social Security is completely inaccurate. Perhaps you are mistaking "evidence" for "proof". Not all evidence ends up supporting a final verdict, but it still is evidence by any definition of that word, and evidence supporting one position or another is just that, no more no less. It is not meaningless to consider or premature to do so. The evidence does exist, the jury is still out on the final verdict.

As to the Chained CPI, I think Ezra Klein already went over this ground in a piece that last time I looked was featured on the DU Home Page. Whatever it may or may not be, the reason why it is being discussed so much by politicians today is clear and simple. By applying the Chained CPI to calculating Social Security benefits in future years the Federal Government can give less money out to those recipreants in the future than they now are legally obligated to. The result is hundreds of Billions of dollars in "savings" obtained by giving less money to seniors than they otherwise could have counted on, and currently are counting on. That is what this is all about grantcart. If there is a gimmick in this it is the "5% income offset" becasue it seems to make everyone whole in the long term, until you realize that most of those people will be in their graves before they see a cent of it.

I'm sorry grantcart, I did not mean to minimize the gravitas of Mr. Greenfield as an expert, I simply was typing fast and didn't want to take the time to go back and copy his name to enter, "guest" was a simple placeholder. But I don't care if he is God, I listened carefully to what he said and no where does he in any way contradict that Seniors will receive less money in the future under Chained CPI than they would under the current system. He simply makes a very qualified case that what they will receive is a more accurate reflection of true cost of living increases than the current system uses. They still would get less.

Once upon a time the wealthy in this country paid a top tax rate well over 50% also, and then that was changed - to their benefit. Congress passed new legislation and a President or two or three signed off and now the new tax rates are considered fair and proper, and carved in Stone to hear Republicans say it Even after Obama overwhelmingly won two Presidential cycles campaigning against the Bush tax cuts for the rich, no one expecting all of them to go back to even Bill Clinton levels now.

There is a myth in this nation that the Social Security trust fund is distinct from the budget. Sure legally it is, but that still is a myth. The budget has always borrowed from it Fuck ALL of the technicalities. Many Seniors don't get enough to live on now, and under a Chained CPI they will get less. That is the bottom line that matters.