General Discussion

BainsBane

(57,751 posts)

53. In all the writings by slaves and freedmen

Reply to friendly_iconoclast (Reply #52)

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 05:31 PM

Dec 2012

and the interviews with former slaves by the WPA, I don't recall a single mention of the Second Amendment. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but it certainly wasn't prominent.

What was prominent was the idea that "all men are created equal and endowed by their creator with inalienable rights." Slaves and free blacks invoked that language repeatedly following the Declaration of Independence.

I actually don't think what you are saying conflicts at all with Edmund Morgan's argument. They are two sides of the same coin. On one hand, whites needed arms to control the slave population. On the other, they instituted a carefully constructed regime of legal oppression that deprived African Americans of all rights, including guns.
The difference is that your interest in guns prompts you to focus on that particular right more than any historian or, I suspect, anyone who lived in the nineteenth century.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

62 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The Real and Racist Origins of the Second Amendment [View all] HoosierRadical Dec 2012 OP

Native Americans are caucasian, so the argument falls flat. Perhaps Lionessa Dec 2012 #1

Why do you say that Native Americans are Caucasian? iemitsu Dec 2012 #2

She doesn't nt. BainsBane Dec 2012 #7

The same way Latinos are caucasian. Lionessa Dec 2012 #12

Latinos aren't Caucasian either. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #21

This is my understanding too. iemitsu Dec 2012 #54

Hispanic persons may be of any race Recursion Dec 2012 #26

Here: Oh, and it turns out I am wrong. Lionessa Dec 2012 #14

Most anthropologists don't recognize biological human races as valid concept tama Dec 2012 #33

THIS - SUPPORTED BY SCIENCE, NOT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #51

Its ok to shout when you need to be heard. iemitsu Dec 2012 #55

Anthropologists may not, but other scientists do. Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #60

Where do Indians (from India) fall? Mongolian? nt Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #59

they were not seen that way in the 1700's, nice try though CreekDog Dec 2012 #4

Their color was nonetheless entirely insignificant, we would've done the same to any color, Lionessa Dec 2012 #13

racism evolved as a justification BainsBane Dec 2012 #36

so you're saying that there wasn't racism against Native Americans back then? CreekDog Dec 2012 #47

I think the sense, back then, was more along class and culture lines than race lines. iemitsu Dec 2012 #56

Can you give an example of white populations who were wiped out and/or forced off their land ecstatic Dec 2012 #62

Your point is correct treestar Dec 2012 #27

When the native Americans started the Pequot War in 1637 by killing an Englishman who they thought AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #29

The Pilgrims were far from peaceful, and they did steal land obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #32

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #38

whatever obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #39

From Wiki: tama Dec 2012 #40

The 2nd Amendment was written in 1791 gollygee Dec 2012 #37

That is an odd argument. ismnotwasm Dec 2012 #41

You might want to rethink your premise: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #3

How can the 196os explain the late-colonial era and Early Republic? BainsBane Dec 2012 #8

The late-colonial and early Republic had their own racist gun control laws friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #9

Yes, that was in order to prop up slavery BainsBane Dec 2012 #11

Racists did not want *any* rights to apply to blacks. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #46

You do realize Dredd-Scott was about slavery? BainsBane Dec 2012 #50

"I don't know why you think guns were the most important right." I don't. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #52

In all the writings by slaves and freedmen BainsBane Dec 2012 #53

Please repost this for the Gungeon folks, they are out of the loop on this notion. CTyankee Dec 2012 #5

Who are the Gungeon folks? HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #10

For your own sanity, don't venture there BainsBane Dec 2012 #17

Perhaps some people haven't read this. I haven't. I would really like to hear the CTyankee Dec 2012 #20

post it over in RKBA BainsBane Dec 2012 #24

Thanks for the heads up HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #25

some are fine BainsBane Dec 2012 #34

Gun Control and RKBA under Justice and Public Safety. CTyankee Dec 2012 #19

public safety BainsBane Dec 2012 #35

Social control BainsBane Dec 2012 #6

And, keep in mind, whites were far outnumbered in the south bhikkhu Dec 2012 #31

hmm BainsBane Dec 2012 #42

By mid 19th century, just before the civil war bhikkhu Dec 2012 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Dec 2012 #58

Exactly. And the NRA cleverly got people parroting their devised "gun control is racist" line... villager Dec 2012 #15

How would you describe the Mulford and Sullivan acts hack89 Dec 2012 #22

Though gun apologists get to ignore the racist roots of gun proliferation? Or the actual politics villager Dec 2012 #43

Just how the hell is gun proliferation racist? nt hack89 Dec 2012 #44

Look at who most of the victims of gun violence -- recurring massacres aside - tend to be villager Dec 2012 #48

It is about 50 - 50 hack89 Dec 2012 #49

What about the 'well-regulated militia'? tblue Dec 2012 #16

Yes only SCOTUS ruled differently BainsBane Dec 2012 #18

The 2nd was/is not about the States. The Militias allow We the people to avoid jmg257 Dec 2012 #23

There may be many valid interpretations tama Dec 2012 #61

I'm surprised it is not about slave rebellion treestar Dec 2012 #28

I imagine that would be covered under the militia clauses... jmg257 Dec 2012 #30

I'm sure the founders knew pretty damn well that slaves could indeed rebel and CTyankee Dec 2012 #45