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thesquanderer

(12,872 posts)
43. It's not quite that black and white. I think simply calling the victims "girls" is worse.
Fri Jul 25, 2025, 12:35 PM
Jul 2025

Using the words "girl" and "woman" as you describe has some ambiguity because your usage is not the only way those words are used... and it's not a sexist issue because the same situation exists with "boy" and "man."

A 20 year old woman might tell a parent/friend, "I met a really nice boy last night." A 20 year old man might tell a parent/friend, "I met a really nice girl last night." In neither case is the parent/friend likely to interpret that as meaning they met a nice underage potential romantic companion. And these people they met may turn into, you guessed it, boyfriends or girlfriends.

Similarly, an under-18 person may sometimes be called a "nice young man" or a "nice young woman," particularly by people of an older generation. You may prefer they didn't, but it is not a terribly uncommon usage. I"m not saying that your definitions are wrong, I'm just saying that that is not the only way the words are used IRL.

As mentioned by others, "minor" and "underage female" would be some possible unambiguous options.

I do see your point that referring to Epstein's victims as young women is problematic. But your headline and first two sentences put forth that you think they should simply be called "girls" (since "underage" would be redundant). But because of common usage, that is inadequate. "Epstein invited powerful people to his island to have sex with girls he supplied" does not make clear that these females are minors. In this case, your proposed fix of calling the victims girls rather than underage women can actually make the activity seem LESS nefarious. Because whether you like it or not, 18+ year old females are often referred to as girls, in common conversation, and in decades of songs and movies. Heck, prostitutes are "call girls," not "call women." So calling Epstein's victims simply "girls" does them a disservice, as it is LESS clear to the reader/listener that they are underage than if they were referred to as "underage women."

It might be best to simply say they were having sex with minors. There's enough horror right there, regardless of the gender of the victims. But if you want to make clear that the victims are female, there has to be something that makes clear to the general public that they were underage, and the word "girl" simply doesn't do that, because the word is so widely used in other ways. People may hear the word "girls" and not assume they were necessarily under the age of consent, because your usage of the word is not universal, and is not the way everyone will automatically interpret the word. It is important to communicate to all that these people were underage, and I believe that simply calling them 'girls" does not do that.

Recommendations

2 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Agreed! SheltieLover Jul 2025 #1
Thank you! niyad Jul 2025 #2
Ty for posting the OP! SheltieLover Jul 2025 #8
Protect the elite and enable them too. Passages Jul 2025 #3
In terms the magaverse might understand (NSFW: language) CincyDem Jul 2025 #4
I just cut to the chase. Mr. Evil Jul 2025 #14
Going to use that terminology moving forward. Anyone in iluvtennis Jul 2025 #28
Absolutely! Mr. Evil Jul 2025 #30
Ya know, in our world you're 100% right...big the metaverse... CincyDem Jul 2025 #45
Rape is not a "negotiable term" under the law whathehell Jul 2025 #79
Someday That type of thinking will be So Diminished it will rarely, if ever affect a victim... electric_blue68 Jul 2025 #86
Technically speaking, neither Trump nor Epstein could rightly be called pedophiles. Jedi Guy Jul 2025 #72
A very interesting point. Thank you. niyad Jul 2025 #106
It could apply because some of his victims were 12 Farmer-Rick Jul 2025 #107
True Jilly_in_VA Jul 2025 #108
"Minors" has the versatility and specificity you're looking for. nt greyl Jul 2025 #5
If identifying sex is necessary, can use "underage female" Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2025 #6
Thank you for that most important point. niyad Jul 2025 #18
+1 leftstreet Jul 2025 #21
But "female" should be used only as an adjective, not as a noun, when spooky3 Jul 2025 #26
Thank you for those informative links. niyad Jul 2025 #73
Ex city councilman calls cops on 9 year old black woman cbabe Jul 2025 #7
I remember that disgusting incident being posted here. niyad Jul 2025 #19
I remember that, too. Disgusting neighbor! electric_blue68 Jul 2025 #88
Children. (n/t) Iggo Jul 2025 #9
Exactly! Using the word "woman" in this context suggests there was no crime. Martin68 Jul 2025 #10
K&R nt berniesandersmittens Jul 2025 #11
Drives me effing insane. Pacifist Patriot Jul 2025 #12
Exactly. It's NOT sex. It's assault/abuse/rape. 3catwoman3 Jul 2025 #32
I have a suspicion the next state of the union will include a variation on Torchlight Jul 2025 #13
Hear, hear!!! LoisB Jul 2025 #15
17 year olds are not children. speak easy Jul 2025 #16
Major crimes against minors. BattleRow Jul 2025 #23
Definition of the word Child Wiz Imp Jul 2025 #64
You can quote a definition but speak easy Jul 2025 #70
Nice try, but NOWHERE did I say an 18 year old is a child, since 18 is the niyad Jul 2025 #74
You said :- speak easy Jul 2025 #75
Responding to the correct poster is always helpful. niyad Jul 2025 #77
Sorry. My bad. speak easy Jul 2025 #82
Makes you wonder COL Mustard Jul 2025 #99
Yes, indeed. niyad Jul 2025 #104
For sure! SheltieLover Jul 2025 #105
You're entitled to your opinion but that doesn't mean most people agree with you. IMO most people absolutely consider Wiz Imp Jul 2025 #89
"Underage girl" may be redundant but it is accurate, speak easy Jul 2025 #90
Crimes against children. yardwork Jul 2025 #17
Hasnt Lindsay Graham MIA these days? BattleRow Jul 2025 #24
People say that he prefers boys Bluestocking Jul 2025 #56
Truth is stranger than fiction.. BattleRow Jul 2025 #66
Thank you very much, niyad. debm55 Jul 2025 #20
They use that language to excuse the inexcusable IronLionZion Jul 2025 #22
It's not just popsdenver Jul 2025 #27
Minor or Child. MineralMan Jul 2025 #25
Bingo. I've cringed every time I've heard some TV talking head Ocelot II Jul 2025 #29
Interesting. I'm not sure if reactions would have been different-- spooky3 Jul 2025 #31
The Ohio State wrestling case was a little different (not that it was less serious) Ocelot II Jul 2025 #36
I pointed out differences in my post. But in any event spooky3 Jul 2025 #38
But a 48YO wealthy white male is " just a kid engaged in youthful indiscretions" Orrex Jul 2025 #33
Or the menendez brothers were just "boys". niyad Jul 2025 #41
Precisely! SheltieLover Jul 2025 #55
There's also the issue of the GIRL not knowing her rights when she's violated ... FakeNoose Jul 2025 #34
As a senior male, an UNDERAGE woman is a 20 year old woman with an 70 year old man LiberalArkie Jul 2025 #35
Pedophilia is INCURABLE -- the only place the belong is on a deserted island or in a prison cell. OMGWTF Jul 2025 #37
Sorry, but, I disagree. Here is why: Oneironaut Jul 2025 #39
Well said. Xavier Breath Jul 2025 #60
This message was self-deleted by its author niyad Jul 2025 #40
It bothers me when media folks say "underage woman" mcar Jul 2025 #42
This is exactly the problem, IMO MorbidButterflyTat Jul 2025 #91
It's not quite that black and white. I think simply calling the victims "girls" is worse. thesquanderer Jul 2025 #43
I agree. This is really important and thank you! Oneironaut Jul 2025 #44
It's not ForgedCrank Jul 2025 #46
So you say, but others clearly disagree. Do keep trying. niyad Jul 2025 #47
I'm not ForgedCrank Jul 2025 #48
Distraction and dictionary definitions do not negate what the intent niyad Jul 2025 #49
Most women I know take offense at being referred to as "girls," SheltieLover Jul 2025 #50
Ok, I ForgedCrank Jul 2025 #51
It is so helpful when people self-identify. niyad Jul 2025 #53
Is this ForgedCrank Jul 2025 #57
Why not try to understand what is being said MorbidButterflyTat Jul 2025 #92
I do ForgedCrank Jul 2025 #94
Very telling that they ignore the #1 definition of the word girl Wiz Imp Jul 2025 #109
Thank you so very much. niyad Jul 2025 #110
. Scrivener7 Jul 2025 #81
Excellent ForgedCrank Jul 2025 #84
Damn. I was going for revulsion and non-engagement. Scrivener7 Jul 2025 #98
Amen, Sister Hekate Jul 2025 #52
Thank you! niyad Jul 2025 #54
I frequently use girl for females of whatever age when I talk about people who are not men. aeromanKC Jul 2025 #58
sighhhhhhh niyad Jul 2025 #59
"Underage female" is actually the correct terminology. valleyrogue Jul 2025 #61
Are you sure about that? Think about an appallingly large segment of the niyad Jul 2025 #68
With you on this one, Niyad. Timeflyer Jul 2025 #62
Thank you. niyad Jul 2025 #67
Does "child" have a... Mike Nelson Jul 2025 #63
"Daughter of", "son of", "offspring of", or, in the case of orange, etc., "spawn of". niyad Jul 2025 #71
You are correct. The Definition of the word "child" is Wiz Imp Jul 2025 #65
Thank you. niyad Jul 2025 #69
TRUTH ZDU Jul 2025 #76
Thank you. niyad Jul 2025 #78
"Underage women" makes me want to stomp on a face. Scrivener7 Jul 2025 #80
Exactly. And I share your feeling (and I wear heels!!!) niyad Jul 2025 #85
Spot on, Scrivnet! SheltieLover Jul 2025 #101
Correct malaise Jul 2025 #83
Thank you. niyad Jul 2025 #87
The media post from yesterday MorbidButterflyTat Jul 2025 #93
Thank you. That media post from yesterday pissed me off. niyad Jul 2025 #95
Thought I replied to this but I must of messed up. 100% agree. BlueSpot Jul 2025 #96
It is all of a piece, as an old saying goes. niyad Jul 2025 #97
K&R! Torchlight Jul 2025 #100
Thank you. niyad Jul 2025 #103
They are children. Once again, children get that end of the stick with shit on it. twodogsbarking Jul 2025 #102
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