General Discussion

wickerwoman

(5,662 posts)

119. By the time a madman breaks into a primary school with an assault rifle, we have already failed.

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 10:46 PM

Dec 2012

We failed to stop the madman from acquiring the assault rifle; we failed to provide treatment or restraint to stop or prevent the madman wanting to kill babies; we created a society that gives fame to people who do these kinds of things; we failed to stop the bullying; we failed to instill a moral code; we provided easily accessible training exercises for the gunman in the form of shooting ranges and graphic video games; we may have given the killer drugs that altered his brain chemistry in ways we don't completely understand. Take your pick, but somehow we failed.

Turning our schools into maximum security lockdowns is unfair to kids. They're not the ones who failed.

Someone who is determined to kill babies is going to do it as long as they have access to the means. A beat cop and an alarm system is not going to stop or deter them. All of the things you suggest have already been implemented since Columbine and the number and scale of these incidents continues to increase.

To significantly reduce these tragedies you need to take away the means or take away the motivation. You can't effectively take away the opportunity without turning schools into prisons and asking six year olds to live in constant terror.

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I don't get all the resistance to putting a cop in schools [View all] BarackTheVote Dec 2012 OP

Do you have children or grandkids? This says the 'why not' better than I can. sinkingfeeling Dec 2012 #1

well well argued samsingh Dec 2012 #227

Dear sinkingfeeling, tblue Dec 2012 #254

if we insist in living in an asylum we need better walls? CBGLuthier Dec 2012 #2

OK how do you pay for it? LynneSin Dec 2012 #3

They can't afford the books, either obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #13

Hmm my school district finally bumped average teacher pay to over 60k Riftaxe Dec 2012 #127

You must live in a pretty affluent school district. Chemisse Dec 2012 #131

Thank you! nt raccoon Dec 2012 #136

We make up for it for in property taxes Riftaxe Dec 2012 #137

School districts that are impoverished can't make up for it in property taxes pnwmom Dec 2012 #143

How very homogeneously upper middle class your perspective is. n/t Ed Suspicious Dec 2012 #178

Seriously. The proud product of astonishingly narrow experience. Squinch Dec 2012 #188

If a district is financially tapped out, who the heck is going to be able to pay additional.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #186

Where I live people vote on whether or not to increase taxes for the school. Chemisse Dec 2012 #209

Most districts cannot afford enough books or supplies obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #140

+100000 dionysus Dec 2012 #157

Congratulations, you live in a wildly atypical district. (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #156

132656 schools in US napoleon_in_rags Dec 2012 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author libdem4life Dec 2012 #41

far better that than to inconvenience anyone's access to their precious toy guns. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #103

Reality is heavy. napoleon_in_rags Dec 2012 #122

+100 nt Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #123

My freezer is full of venison Riftaxe Dec 2012 #128

For which you need a semi auto high capacity light infantry weapon? Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #141

In Wisconsin, at least 20 years ago when I hunted guns were to only be allowed Ed Suspicious Dec 2012 #182

Just curious, but how many guns do you personally need for hunting purposes?.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #187

The issue has revolved sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #241

Like the idea of raquel69 Dec 2012 #204

Cameras plus panic buttons are a low cost solution. napoleon_in_rags Dec 2012 #257

My suggestion? Bullet tax! phleshdef Dec 2012 #36

We could also see how well it would go over with the supreme court (who would throw out the tax) Travis_0004 Dec 2012 #112

I like it. BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #162

We don't. The Gun mega-industry will pay...count on it. libdem4life Dec 2012 #173

We pay for school supplies for each kid out of our own pocket at the start of each.... OldDem2012 Dec 2012 #185

Here's my idea. AngryOldDem Dec 2012 #203

Do you fight a house fire with more fire? liberal N proud Dec 2012 #4

Not necessarily and also not likely BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #37

Why is it we seem to be the ONLY industrialized nation Kelvin Mace Dec 2012 #62

If it was a supermax prison, the goal would be preventing people from getting out BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #70

OK, why is it that this kind of security is NOT Kelvin Mace Dec 2012 #82

It's NOT about the police state BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #161

Again you keep not answering my question Kelvin Mace Dec 2012 #256

You want to commit our children to armed prisons and retrofit every single classroom in every Care Acutely Dec 2012 #130

Seriously, that is the gun humpers' wet dream. Everywhere they go they could admire the objects of Dark n Stormy Knight Dec 2012 #211

a school is a lot like a part-time prison Blackhawk44 Dec 2012 #216

There was one JustAnotherGen Dec 2012 #5

Colombine had security cameras, too n/t arcane1 Dec 2012 #60

Even more info JustAnotherGen Dec 2012 #120

Cause the response to a fire is not to pour gas on it nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #6

wHAT'S NEXT? DainBramaged Dec 2012 #7

One of the elementary schools I work in already has one of those whistler162 Dec 2012 #16

They'll probably insist that the kids are all armed. This has gotten that crazy. Squinch Dec 2012 #195

well, once all the schools are covered, maybe they'll move on to daycare centers spanone Dec 2012 #8

... beat cops do cover McDonalds... BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #166

Beat cops are not required to dedicate themselves to the neighborhood McDonalds. And we need to go Squinch Dec 2012 #192

Because some of us don't want to be constantly in DEFENSE mode against our fellow citizens. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #9

Schools are public institutions BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #44

No offense sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #88

Thank you. Also, Chorophyll Dec 2012 #91

It is and will remain sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #96

Good point vankuria Dec 2012 #142

Right. The fact is that we are never going to be free of people with bad intentions. Chorophyll Dec 2012 #144

1. The person most likely to shoot up a school, goes to that school BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #160

1. Not in elementary schools sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #174

1. Not necessarily, and if they break in, alarms would go off BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #193

A part of a School Guard's life especially in the elementary school, is integrating with the libdem4life Dec 2012 #250

Vigilance has worked at airports raquel69 Dec 2012 #202

Yes it has, and no child has been traumatized. In elementary schools, they are Officer Friendly. libdem4life Dec 2012 #212

Magical thinking comes sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #242

Not much in life can be completely avoided. But we shift our priorities, as needed. libdem4life Dec 2012 #245

Furthermore, these attacks on schools are extremely rare duffyduff Dec 2012 #214

This is the reason why America has become a laughingstock around the world Cali_Democrat Dec 2012 #10

Exactly. laundry_queen Dec 2012 #118

+1 treestar Dec 2012 #159

lol obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #11

Are these kids never to go outside then? madmom Dec 2012 #12

Outside is less of a concern than confined interior spaces BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #46

What about sniper types? madmom Dec 2012 #102

Gunman type, you run outside; sniper type, you take cover inside BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #168

Why not make it simple and make it harder to get the guns in the first place. madmom Dec 2012 #184

I'm not talking either or here BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #196

Because that solution doesn't work. backscatter712 Dec 2012 #14

Sure, and just fire a teacher to pay for it, right? Coyotl Dec 2012 #15

LaPierre proposed putting Zimmermans (it's the new Pinkerton) in the schools. ellisonz Dec 2012 #17

I have no problem with professional security for schools Voice for Peace Dec 2012 #18

Thank you BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #51

because ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #20

I'd say putting cops in every school would be admitting our society has failed completely. Liberal Veteran Dec 2012 #21

It's a government building BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #57

Define 'building'... YvonneCa Dec 2012 #169

They already have cops/security in some of the grocery stores here in Kansas City. RC Dec 2012 #191

We have uniformed cops in Florida schools now...it doesn't make any difference. Sancho Dec 2012 #22

Bravo! Toronto Dec 2012 #50

Yeah there were cops at my kids hs in FL kydo Dec 2012 #52

Agreed BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #74

I grew up without cops in schools Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #124

We no longer have local cops on foot...friendly blue...like we used to who would get to know the libdem4life Dec 2012 #163

I agree, and I like the image BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #170

Thanks. Problem I see is that, like teachers, police officers are also in short supply. libdem4life Dec 2012 #179

Which is why I say that this is the perfect moment to reinvigorate BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #189

I see what you mean and like it. That would include mental health care, rearranging policies libdem4life Dec 2012 #194

I like the picture you paint Mojorabbit Dec 2012 #208

Nice Drive-by-posting. 99Forever Dec 2012 #23

Forgive me for not obsessively tapping the refresh button for ten minutes BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #53

don't say Christmas dlwickham Dec 2012 #56

"...obsessively tapping the refresh button for ten minutes." 99Forever Dec 2012 #77

LOL BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #165

And NOW I'm going to go Christmas shopping with ma m�re BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #84

Because people are viewing it as an "either or" situation when it ecstatic Dec 2012 #24

Makes sense to me. Union Scribe Dec 2012 #26

100%, thanks for getting where I'm coming from BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #63

Count me in ... we can do "yes...and" The gun folks will pay for the libdem4life Dec 2012 #248

Police are people too jehop61 Dec 2012 #25

Why do you say they can't befriend anyone? nt ecstatic Dec 2012 #30

According to the gun culture jehop61 Dec 2012 #38

oh. I guess we're all picturing different things ecstatic Dec 2012 #45

I'm picturing a cop BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #65

From an educator's view...these people would be an integral part of the school and the kids lives. libdem4life Dec 2012 #249

Other than the fact that there WAS a cop on campus at Columbine and it had no effect RomneyLies Dec 2012 #27

While I certainly don't mind life-jackets on a boat LanternWaste Dec 2012 #28

Then you must lead a confused and challenging life Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2012 #29

Columbine Had A Cop and Security Cameras Yavin4 Dec 2012 #31

Yeah but they raquel69 Dec 2012 #205

BTW-WHO is going to pay for this? Republicans are cutting school funds & don't want taxes graham4anything Dec 2012 #32

Irony alert: Grover Norquist is on the NRA Board of Directors. Buns_of_Fire Dec 2012 #80

How would you arm the police in schools, with automatic weapons? Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #33

The cops in schools Go Vols Dec 2012 #55

Well without a ban on assault weapons, that may not be enough. Uncle Joe Dec 2012 #79

I don't see a problem with a uniformed officer,but I'm somewhat skeptical about its effectiveness... Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2012 #34

there are 98,817 public schools. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2012 #35

I was pondering the scope and logistics of it too whatchamacallit Dec 2012 #43

That doesn't include charter schools and private schools. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2012 #121

Aren't cops already in a lot of schools? Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2012 #39

No, they aren't. Where Iive in PA, anyway. WinkyDink Dec 2012 #48

Well, maybe not Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2012 #49

they are in my city - Dallas justabob Dec 2012 #68

My experience is that they are Ilsa Dec 2012 #94

Oh brilliant, instead of dealing with the problem of gun nuts and paramilitaries and mental illness, OregonBlue Dec 2012 #40

Uh, they go to the mall and that doesn't seem to bother them. They walk into a bank...at least mine libdem4life Dec 2012 #73

It's a practical solution, a preventive one in Chicago. One officer and security guards are in all ancianita Dec 2012 #115

+1! BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #171

Columbine Had An Armed Guard otohara Dec 2012 #42

You are correct. PA Democrat Dec 2012 #69

It would be some major "cooping" at the vast majority of schools. WinkyDink Dec 2012 #47

makes sense to me dlwickham Dec 2012 #54

How did that work at Columbine? PA Democrat Dec 2012 #71

and? dlwickham Dec 2012 #98

Law enforcement doctrine at the time said with an active shooter to call SWAT and wait Kennah Dec 2012 #129

Why do we have to accept living like this in the first place? CTyankee Dec 2012 #58

Seriously? Kelvin Mace Dec 2012 #59

Don't we at some point have to ask; Dyedinthewoolliberal Dec 2012 #61

STOPIT already! You are making too much sense. RC Dec 2012 #198

There was an armed sheriff's deputy at Columbine High School.... Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #64

Been done since the mid 1980s...where ya been? Rex Dec 2012 #66

Just resistence to the new awful recognition that this isn't the inner city or hormonal teenagers. libdem4life Dec 2012 #72

Its a bit like theKed Dec 2012 #135

Huh? Guess analogy or metaphor is lost on some people. Maybe you meant to say holster and handgun libdem4life Dec 2012 #158

Even if it were not a repugnant notion to begin with Toronto Dec 2012 #67

Don't think it would make a difference Lokey Dec 2012 #75

What if the next massacre is in a candy store? Put a cop in every candy store? Nye Bevan Dec 2012 #76

Day care centers. randome Dec 2012 #81

VA Tech has the equivalent of a SWAT team stationed on campus.. frylock Dec 2012 #78

Good points. I agree. rainlillie Dec 2012 #83

Not one public dime. Paid for by the gun industry and their gigantic profits. Blow a hole libdem4life Dec 2012 #85

Only if paid for ENTIRELY by taxes on bullets and guns mainer Dec 2012 #86

That's Because There's NOTHING to Get Here.. Iggy Dec 2012 #87

It turns schools into an arms race. politicat Dec 2012 #89

Eventually, you end up with tactical teams for every school, by this logic hatrack Dec 2012 #93

You end up with an arms race, and the way arms races end is disarmament. politicat Dec 2012 #114

I have read at least a half dozen or so postings asking the same question left is right Dec 2012 #90

Pierre wasn't talking about cops in schools - he was talking about a volunteer militia hatrack Dec 2012 #92

I'd heard this and had discussions about it days before the NRA presser BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #175

Isn't a "volunteer militia" what we already have with all these gun nutz and their armories? RC Dec 2012 #201

Everyone KNOWS that a squadron of marines and a couple of tanks ... tledford Dec 2012 #95

Kids shouldn't be habituated to living in a police state. wickerwoman Dec 2012 #97

The whole cops and/or security guards in schools Toronto Dec 2012 #100

Sounds like you have a yen for a police state. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #99

Take a deep breath ... think School Crossing Guards...just one level up, libdem4life Dec 2012 #167

Armed guards are one step up from school crossing guards? JDPriestly Dec 2012 #246

1. The suggestion comes from the RW fascists at the NRA. That's reason enough. baldguy Dec 2012 #101

Wow! FAIL. Schools cannot hire teachers or buy books. You want to spend $50,000 - $100,000 on cops? Logical Dec 2012 #104

The gov't owns the schools. The gov't already pays the cops. BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #177

Oh and one other thing about this bullshit NRA talking point post... Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #105

+100 pts. for providing the truth and accuracy. Earth_First Dec 2012 #109

They have had it in FLA for a while. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #106

More guns is clearly NOT the answer to America's gun & violence problem. kenny blankenship Dec 2012 #107

Most schools in my area already have police officers assigned to schools. JohLast Dec 2012 #108

Who would pay for it? csziggy Dec 2012 #110

I believe we Livluvgrow Dec 2012 #113

Lots of cops? But most places have cut back on the numbers csziggy Dec 2012 #116

Flag waving "patriotic" Repugs, slapping you on the back and stepping in for the photo op BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #181

Just because Pepe LaPew billh58 Dec 2012 #111

YOu gonna put two at every door? Bake Dec 2012 #117

By the time a madman breaks into a primary school with an assault rifle, we have already failed. wickerwoman Dec 2012 #119

Well said quaker bill Dec 2012 #134

How is this to be paid for? How many schools are there in this country? Which schools Raine Dec 2012 #125

Let's create a police state in order that the gun nuts can enjoy their freedoms Democracyinkind Dec 2012 #126

Thank you for your opinion, Mr. LaPiere. Le Taz Hot Dec 2012 #132

I don't think that idea is a good one because it isn't a healthy learning environment. The southernyankeebelle Dec 2012 #133

People are resisting it because the NRA said it Taitertots Dec 2012 #138

I guess I am too dumb to understand the problem with officers in schools. JohLast Dec 2012 #139

Ahhh ... 99Forever Dec 2012 #145

we are against treating one tiny symptom and ignoring the disease Motown_Johnny Dec 2012 #149

Please research the recent cuts to police forces Motown_Johnny Dec 2012 #146

In our small county the police are going to have an armed guard available UNTIL the school can jwirr Dec 2012 #147

This is sanity and public safety before politics and hysteria. Someone on the PTA and the school libdem4life Dec 2012 #231

You are six time more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist. Cops would kill kids in school. morningfog Dec 2012 #148

+1 nt Live and Learn Dec 2012 #190

Good lord. This is beyond belief. In what decade do you predict we'll "clean up" libdem4life Dec 2012 #232

No, following the NRA fucknuts would be cowering to the guns. morningfog Dec 2012 #233

Seriously...so what's a timeline...best guess. It's vague and non-actionable, thus useless IMHO. libdem4life Dec 2012 #236

Where have I suggested banning and confiscating all guns? morningfog Dec 2012 #240

Let's put our money where LWolf Dec 2012 #150

A single, token armed guard is kabuki theater. kestrel91316 Dec 2012 #151

This message was self-deleted by its author ann--- Dec 2012 #152

It is an absurd proposition. mn9driver Dec 2012 #153

We have locked entrances at all times. trixie Dec 2012 #154

That seems to have been (more) bad reporting Fumesucker Dec 2012 #164

thanks for the info trixie Dec 2012 #172

While the cop is breaking up a fight, someone takes his gun. randome Dec 2012 #155

Because cops have emotional crisis's and breakdowns too. Live and Learn Dec 2012 #176

We had a cop in school when I was in high school. Iggo Dec 2012 #180

Self-fulfilling prophecy. People react to how they are being treated. You will make everything worse patrice Dec 2012 #183

"I don't get all the resistance to putting a cop in schools" rainlillie Dec 2012 #197

Jesus Christ said the atheist, what has changed is we are flooded with guns. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #199

Whatever! The solution isn't to sit around while both sides bitch rainlillie Dec 2012 #200

They don't have a chance of passing.., Iggo Dec 2012 #219

It's not about more guns BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #207

Well really no that is ridiculous. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #222

So, wait until a school DOES have a violent crime? BarackTheVote Dec 2012 #235

As I said, an insane mis-allocation of police resources Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #238

You're preaching to the choir.. it seems as though some people here rainlillie Dec 2012 #244

I agree it isn't about more guns, glad you can hold two ideas in your head at the same time. rainlillie Dec 2012 #225

No, it's a great thought... 80-10-10 raw vegan Dec 2012 #206

I asked my daughters about this, not having an opinion myself bhikkhu Dec 2012 #210

It costs an enormous amount of money, duffyduff Dec 2012 #213

A school is not a castle. LeftyMom Dec 2012 #215

Congratulations! Zoeisright Dec 2012 #217

So, let's hear an undumb post...on this subject. Assuming other posts were read. libdem4life Dec 2012 #218

LOL! Don't hold your breath. rainlillie Dec 2012 #226

Zoe is right ! Marrah_G Dec 2012 #220

My thought exactly. Iggo Dec 2012 #223

Dress codes? have you ever sat on one of those committees?! Coats off immediately? With books? WinkyDink Dec 2012 #221

I do suppose it's easy for people who don't have to go into schools rainlillie Dec 2012 #224

Switchblades? What, no zipguns? LeftyMom Dec 2012 #237

Yeah, weapons in schools always bring a smile to my face too. rainlillie Dec 2012 #243

Probably because it's a sad commentary on a supposedly civilized society. We have failed as a RKP5637 Dec 2012 #228

For starters, it more or less declares that shooters are the new normal. CBHagman Dec 2012 #229

School districts do not want to be dictated by the NRA LeftInTX Dec 2012 #230

Lots of schools already have them. N/T Yo_Mama Dec 2012 #234

My sister went to a high school with an armed police officer Nikia Dec 2012 #239

They are in schools. That doesn't help mitigate violence 100% vaberella Dec 2012 #247

because it SCARES CHILDREN, COSTS A LOT, and DOES NOT ADDRESS THE PROBLEM Skittles Dec 2012 #251

It's silly to think an officer will stop the next massacre.....it didn't work that way at Columbine Dems to Win Dec 2012 #252

Even if you buy the crap about keeping kids safe while someone is applegrove Dec 2012 #253

Why have a cop hanging around when there is stuff he is duty bound .. Historic NY Dec 2012 #255