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LetMyPeopleVote

(183,725 posts)
49. Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean
Wed Sep 3, 2025, 08:06 PM
Sep 2025

Here is a good discussion of the legal issues in the use of lethal military force when we are NOT at war.

https://www.justsecurity.org/119982/legal-issues-military-attack-carribean/

On Sept. 2nd, the Trump administration announced what it described as a “lethal strike” against an alleged drug smuggling vessel in the Caribbean. In a post on social media accompanied with a video of the strike, President Donald Trump stated that the attack was “against positively identified Tren de Aragua Narcoterrorists.” Trump also noted that Tren de Aragua had previously been designated as a foreign terrorist organization (FTO). The social media post also asserted that the strike had occurred in international waters and killed “11 terrorists.”

Although the facts are still emerging, the Trump administration’s extraordinary lethal attack on this purported smuggling vessel – and its vow that the strike was a start of a campaign – raise a number of significant potential legal issues. And even apart from these legal concerns, the strike constitutes a deeply troubling gratuitous use of the military that resulted in the unnecessary killing of 11 individuals. ......

A U.S. president may direct the use of military force pursuant to either (1) a congressional authorization for the use of force/declaration of war or (2) inherent authority under Article II of the Constitution, typically as commander in chief of the U.S. military. The scope of the president’s authority to direct the use of force under Article II in the absence of congressional authorization is contested. Although there is broad agreement that the president may use force to repel “sudden attack,” the U.S. executive branch has taken a much more expansive view of the president’s unilateral war powers.

Here the Trump administration will almost certainly rely solely on Article II of the Constitution as the source of authority for the attack on this vessel. Despite labelling the targets “narcoterrorists,” there is no plausible argument under which the principle legal authority for the U.S. so-called “war on terror”—the 2001 Authorization for the Use of Military Force—authorizes military action against the Venezuelan criminal entity Tren de Aragua.

Under the executive branch’s two-prong test for when a president may use force without congressional authorization, the contemplated operation must advance an important “national interest” and must not amount to “war in the constitutional sense,” which the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) has recognized as an outer limit on the president’s unilateral warmaking authority. That said, OLC precedent marks out remarkably wide latitude, with the first prong in particular having been critiqued as being unconstraining, and it is not clear whether it would have limited the president in this instance even assuming OLC advice was sought before the strike took place.

Further, though Trump and others in his administration have emphasized the prior designation of Tren de Aragua as an FTO, such designation does not by itself convey authority to use force. Nonetheless, such FTO designations are widely and mistakenly perceived as authorizing such action within the executive branch. Thus, designation of Tren de Aragua and a number of other Latin American criminal entities as FTOs in February foreshadowed this week’s attack in the Caribbean, despite providing no actual legal authority for it.

This is a well done legal article that also goes into the use of force if we were at war



I think that trump appears to have committed a crime or war crime in this attack.

Recommendations

3 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Bass boats Greg_In_SF Sep 2025 #1
The only sure way to tell what it was Another Jackalope Sep 2025 #3
Exactly... no more boat, no way to prove or disprove anything. Therefore, slightlv Sep 2025 #15
Countdown OrangeJoe Sep 2025 #23
He wants to get a drug boat so bad he doesn't want to risk MadameButterfly Sep 2025 #37
That's very unsettling. ecstatic Sep 2025 #58
Cmon now, they were going after some of the largest sea bass ever rumored to exist in that big bad bass boat. nt taxi Sep 2025 #9
A pleasure boat can have 4 engines deepblue Sep 2025 #22
They can Greg_In_SF Sep 2025 #26
My neighbor had a boat with 3 Chrysler V8's in it. Just for fishing on Lake Michigan. OverBurn Sep 2025 #38
Half the boats in Miami do pfitz59 Sep 2025 #42
So you are saying it is ok to kill folks usedtobedemgurl Sep 2025 #55
Me? You talking to me? deepblue Sep 2025 #62
Do the DOD's brownshirts understand that "just following orders" is not a defense RockRaven Sep 2025 #2
Hitler had the Brownshirts murdered Kaleva Sep 2025 #7
Only The Leaders ProfessorGAC Sep 2025 #24
The loyalty of the Brownshirts wasn't in question Kaleva Sep 2025 #61
Agreed ProfessorGAC Sep 2025 #63
Verbal orders, I'm sure Fichefinder Sep 2025 #4
So we can kill a literal 'Boat load' of people just on a Suspision? mackdaddy Sep 2025 #5
Unfortunately WmChris Sep 2025 #16
Intercepting (easy) & interrogating is so much less CONVENIENT than extra-judicially killing 11 people. . . . /s . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2025 #6
The quaint idea of due process sammythecat Sep 2025 #28
OK, they just picked a boat to destroy and claimed it was cartel. ananda Sep 2025 #8
Reminds me of HWBush popsdenver Sep 2025 #14
Good comparison. Bush 2 invaded Iraq and took advantage of 9/11. ananda Sep 2025 #19
Bush 2 invaded Iraq because he thought that Sadamn had disrespected his daddy after the first Iraq war of Bush 1 LiberalArkie Sep 2025 #31
I thought popsdenver Sep 2025 #51
Reagan knocked over Grenada markodochartaigh Sep 2025 #30
And to wag the dog, to distract from the Beirut embassy bombing. Hassler Sep 2025 #36
Begging for more 9/11s. multigraincracker Sep 2025 #10
So many questions. maxsolomon Sep 2025 #11
That's not normal protocol for interdiction activities. haele Sep 2025 #57
Meanwhile Putin, Modi, Xi and Kim were yucking bronxiteforever Sep 2025 #12
F.cking Supreme Court! Buddyzbuddy Sep 2025 #13
I dont care if they were carrying 500 pounds of cocaine. Eko Sep 2025 #17
The whole thing is a disgrace. yardwork Sep 2025 #21
Proving yet again that the "Orange menace", in the words of Eddie Janko,... the nelm Sep 2025 #34
His dealer was late so... Dave Bowman Sep 2025 #18
That excuse didn't work at Nuremberg it's not going to work now. Ray Bruns Sep 2025 #20
Cost of doing business to the cartel lonely bird Sep 2025 #25
The orange monster is working day & night to make America an international pariah Hekate Sep 2025 #27
Extra judicial killing for an alleged offense that could not be the subject of capital punishment is murder. TomSlick Sep 2025 #29
I am expecting this will lead to us reading about the U.S. blowing up boats full of refugees. Sorry to express such ShazamIam Sep 2025 #32
Typical Of Cantaloupe Caligula... GB_RN Sep 2025 #33
Murdering 11 Venezuelans without knowing 100% Farmer-Rick Sep 2025 #35
Blow it up, film it, and use that clip of a evidence-less mass murder for political propaganda Justice matters. Sep 2025 #47
The Reform party in the UK would love to do something like this. malthaussen Sep 2025 #39
It was around 1,200 miles over the open sea from the markodochartaigh Sep 2025 #40
i guess its ok now for venezula to attack a US fishing boat in international waters claiming its a drug boat moonshinegnomie Sep 2025 #41
It was murder! Emile Sep 2025 #43
More than likely T tried to shake them down Hope22 Sep 2025 #44
This is basically piracy EndlessMaze Sep 2025 #45
I think this story... Mike Nelson Sep 2025 #46
Maybe Gulf of Tonkin important ... Turnip is waving his big stick below the Equator, ready to start another eppur_se_muova Sep 2025 #48
Legal Issues Raised by a Lethal U.S. Military Attack in the Caribbean LetMyPeopleVote Sep 2025 #49
Unfortunately, for the Sailors that pushed the button, "we were just following orders" is a weak defense maxrandb Sep 2025 #50
I believe Trump would use nuclear missiles if he thought he could personally benefited from it. Doodley Sep 2025 #52
It scares me that the Navy followed this order. nt Ilsa Sep 2025 #53
He has murder in his heart. GoodRaisin Sep 2025 #54
Were there children in the boat? Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2025 #56
Murder/Terrorism moondust Sep 2025 #59
Of course Nobody paying attention would Cha Sep 2025 #60
MaddowBlog-Team Trump faces tough questions following strike on boat in international waters LetMyPeopleVote Sep 2025 #64
Will this be his new method of handling scary immigrants or demonstrators? Ping Tung Sep 2025 #65
Impeach him! Joinfortmill Sep 2025 #66
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