General Discussion

renie408

(9,854 posts)

108. Is it typical anarchist fashion to ignore

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 04:50 AM

Dec 2012

popular definitions and apply meanings that suit you? I bet it is!! You, rebel, you!!

No, friend, YOU placed the use of force in exactly the wrong place. YOU stated that in your Utopia John could "lead or not" as if that was somehow different from the real world. I was responding to that.

And you are right. I do have a difficulty comprehending why you think anarchy removes force and/or coercion. It might in a perfect world with perfect people. But not even in that glorious haven of 1936 Spain, a time and place I am sure we ALL wish we could live in, did that last long.

BTW...What is stopping you? Why aren't you living in that Utopia? I would be willing to bet that somewhere people are living a basically anarchist lifestyle and given the internet, I bet you could find them. Why didn't Chomsky? He chose to espouse this wonderful, anarchist view of life while working at MIT and living in Lexington, Massachusetts. I bet he had a nice, comfortable life with all the amenities our icky, structured, governed world provides. For all that you are trapped in this awful, structured world, you could choose to check out. But it is a lot more fun to sit at your computer and call other people profoundly ignorant, huh? And besides, this awful, horrible representative democracy that you find yourself trapped in already has the police, fire department and the garbage men.

Listen, because I am not profoundly idealistic does not make me profoundly ignorant. But calling me profoundly ignorant...repeatedly...while using an obscure, failed worker's revolution as an example from the safety of your computer chair as you participate in the same society I do does make you look like a sophist, arrogant ass.

Now, call me stupid again as if that somehow makes your argument more sound. Good luck with that.

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I am an Anarchist. Not a "Libertarian" or a "Galtist" but an Anarchist. [View all] Taverner Dec 2012 OP

Me too alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #1

Well, hell -- me three! villager Dec 2012 #3

Me too! burrowowl Dec 2012 #75

Good luck with that. renie408 Dec 2012 #2

Riddle me this, Batman: What good have leaders done? Taverner Dec 2012 #5

Hey!! You should lead that revolt!! ...no...wait.... renie408 Dec 2012 #18

+1 Johonny Dec 2012 #25

lol Hydra Dec 2012 #45

+ 2. BlueCaliDem Dec 2012 #76

Ha ha ha...plus �a change, plus c'est la m�me chose!!!! MADem Dec 2012 #79

�The past is never dead. It�s not even past.� n/t jtuck004 Dec 2012 #94

The people never would have marched without the leaders exhorting them to jtuck004 Dec 2012 #59

The marchers made the most difference tho Taverner Dec 2012 #64

The "marchers" didn't, because people don't, spontaneously erupt into contradicting jtuck004 Dec 2012 #67

Anarchy doesn't mean no leaders Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #71

Ok, ty. n/t jtuck004 Dec 2012 #93

You merely expose your profound ignorance. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #73

It's profound ignorance to think that anarchy renie408 Dec 2012 #81

Please see Spain 1936 - 1939. Noam Chomsky gave a very enlightening talk on how Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #82

You say 'flippant' like it was a bad thing. renie408 Dec 2012 #85

Anarchy is not lack of structure. That is antinomianism or autonomism Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #90

Anarchy is freedom from government. renie408 Dec 2012 #92

Freedom from governance is not absence of leadership. The essential difference is that anarchy, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #96

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. renie408 Dec 2012 #99

Words do indeed have specific meanings, you just don't understand them. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #105

Is it typical anarchist fashion to ignore renie408 Dec 2012 #108

We both do in our ways. He has tenure at MIT and I simply don't participate in this Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #114

I don't have anybody on 'ignore'. renie408 Dec 2012 #118

Your position regarding the Spanish Anarchists boils down to might makes right. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #120

No renie408 Dec 2012 #121

Human nature allowed for just this kind of communal based culture for 40,000 years. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #137

So, why do you think that it is in the natures of chimpanzees to go to war renie408 Dec 2012 #138

It isn't. There is a big difference between acquisitive violence and organized slaughter. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #140

Also... renie408 Dec 2012 #139

You mean the three years where 1,000,000 people were killed and the country was destroyed? Throd Dec 2012 #97

Yes. The other part you were never taught, or most likely never even heard of. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #98

I think his point is that if you have to kill a million people, it ain't exactly Utopia. renie408 Dec 2012 #100

It wasn't the anarchists that were killing a million people, that was the revolution they weren't Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #103

Ok... renie408 Dec 2012 #106

So your position is that you choose to ignore the living testimony of those that were there, Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #112

Again with the picking and choosing definitions... renie408 Dec 2012 #113

Wouldn't you like to know. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #115

I am not the one who started this entire discussion renie408 Dec 2012 #119

Then you are also anti-statist. banned from Kos Dec 2012 #4

Not necessarily alcibiades_mystery Dec 2012 #7

+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #15

Anti-Westphalian-nation-state, you might say (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #35

The state would not be necesarry if we could control our corporations Taverner Dec 2012 #9

The Wealth of Nations and the Declaration of Indepdence were published in the same year Recursion Dec 2012 #126

Iceland does a tolerably good job having a classless society Exultant Democracy Dec 2012 #6

Iceland has a population of 300K people Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #10

But - they are eliminating "leadership" Taverner Dec 2012 #13

No, they aren't Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #16

Iceland is eliminating the idea of leadership Taverner Dec 2012 #11

Then it sounds like you need to update that passport!! renie408 Dec 2012 #21

A love it or leave it post. I forgot how annoying those are. white_wolf Dec 2012 #28

+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #36

No - America, if any place, can understand Anarchism better than any country Taverner Dec 2012 #37

Don't forget the Wobblies! One Big Union. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #44

The IWW! Taverner Dec 2012 #57

Every American should keep their passport up to date. Far to few americans travel abroad. Exultant Democracy Dec 2012 #50

Except that will never happen. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #8

Sigh - yes, you are right. But that can't stop me from dreaming. Taverner Dec 2012 #12

What kind of Anarchist? JaneyVee Dec 2012 #14

Anarcho-Syndicalist Taverner Dec 2012 #17

The best kind! JaneyVee Dec 2012 #19

How many Anarchists does it take to screw in a light bulb? WilliamPitt Dec 2012 #20

Correction: Screw you(r own light bulb in)! Hydra Dec 2012 #46

Depends on the size of the light bulb Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #70

Well us commies know the difference......... socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #22

What's the difference between your position and a Libertarian Socialist? Xithras Dec 2012 #23

Libertarian Socialism is pretty close to what I believe Taverner Dec 2012 #29

I think Anarcho-Syndicalism is a set of libertarian socialism. white_wolf Dec 2012 #31

So you're trying to define 'anarchism'. randome Dec 2012 #24

No - I am trying to define myself. Taverner Dec 2012 #26

Got it. Just curious. randome Dec 2012 #32

"All they do is bring down productivity" NoOneMan Dec 2012 #27

Because if a worker is concerned with productivity... Taverner Dec 2012 #33

Thats not what I want, no NoOneMan Dec 2012 #38

Indeed! immoderate Dec 2012 #53

Without a power structure threatening deprivation, or worse, this too is a self-correcting problem. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #83

I think there's a "zero work" strain of anarchism... Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #65

Anarcho-primitivism is more what I am referring to NoOneMan Dec 2012 #68

How many people will die in the process anarcho-primitivsm? white_wolf Dec 2012 #109

How many people die currently? NoOneMan Dec 2012 #122

I disagree with you. I think Democratic Socialism can use technology correctly. white_wolf Dec 2012 #135

No, thats not the framework Im looking at things from NoOneMan Dec 2012 #136

I believe that we are all aready our own authorities. ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #30

+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #34

I think you're describing a natural human instinct for not wanting to be bossed around by limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #39

+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #41

Sorry, buddy. Doesn't work. sibelian Dec 2012 #40

How can you tolerate being bossed around without a plan change this? Taverner Dec 2012 #42

Well, sir, I don't like it. But... sibelian Dec 2012 #43

You found a good boss. Guess what? That great boss is a CO-WORKER!!! Taverner Dec 2012 #49

Ahhhhhh. sibelian Dec 2012 #58

Hey Taverner, Me Too... Tace Dec 2012 #47

Cheers! Taverner Dec 2012 #48

I've seen that sort of thing too easily gamed & the result was that those least equipped to deal patrice Dec 2012 #51

And all hell would break loose. babylonsister Dec 2012 #52

So you're saying that without the threat of punishment, you would somehow go berserk? n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #84

What do you think of Kropotkin's ideas then? Stargleamer Dec 2012 #54

I like Kropotkin Taverner Dec 2012 #56

Kropotkin was the guy who was anti-religion right? Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #62

Back then the church served the rich Taverner Dec 2012 #63

A friend of mine who may or may not be religious Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #69

Take me to your leader. Iggo Dec 2012 #55

Step into this sphere, you'll find him in the corner. n/t Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #74

Fuck Tha GA Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #60

I was an anarchist once, then I turned 14 CBGLuthier Dec 2012 #61

And became an anarcho-syndicalist? Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #78

Junior high gym classes sucked enough the first time around. (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #66

As an egalitarian I have always liked the anarchist system. Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #72

I used to be one of those Shivering Jemmy Dec 2012 #77

"I is a princess of chaos and I is VERY IMPORTANT and we wants Hell too! sibelian Dec 2012 #80

Quakers are leaderless quaker bill Dec 2012 #86

Excellent and interesting post. Thank you. nt woo me with science Dec 2012 #88

Part of the problem with America right now woo me with science Dec 2012 #87

Well, you know what they say Leopolds Ghost Dec 2012 #89

Occupy. We have no leaders ~ We are all leaders. Zorra Dec 2012 #91

+1000 Taverner Dec 2012 #95

Where are you posting from? renie408 Dec 2012 #111

Lovely post. Thank you. woo me with science Dec 2012 #101

A lot of people have a difficult time wrapping their heads around this concept. Thanks for putting Egalitarian Thug Dec 2012 #116

Has Occupy brought about any change? wtmusic Dec 2012 #123

Your not an Anarchist, your Utopian . orpupilofnature57 Dec 2012 #102

I'm both - so? Taverner Dec 2012 #104

See you in the next world where Humans don't elevate scum above orpupilofnature57 Dec 2012 #117

Or we gradually work twards the goal, expecting to see none of it in our lifetimes Taverner Dec 2012 #132

You mean like Bane advocated? NashvilleLefty Dec 2012 #107

Bane? you mean Batman Bane? white_wolf Dec 2012 #110

Meh, those who shun leaders are the first ones that want to lead. Javaman Dec 2012 #124

I am an Arachnist wtmusic Dec 2012 #125

All hail the spider god! Taverner Dec 2012 #133

why not move to Iraq? samsingh Dec 2012 #127

That's just stupid. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #129

not as stupid as wanting no leadership and wanting anarchy without understanding its consequences samsingh Dec 2012 #130

Wow...you need to get a dictonary bro Taverner Dec 2012 #131

okay - i'll do some reading samsingh Dec 2012 #134

Just remember that Anarchy is often confused with Nihilism n/t intaglio Dec 2012 #128

Or another way to put that chrisknight02 Jan 2013 #141

+1000....welcome to DU! Taverner Jan 2013 #142