General Discussion

SharonAnn

(14,172 posts)

121. It's a "distinction without a difference".

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 11:49 AM

Dec 2012

Logical Fallacies:

Distinction Without a Difference

Description: The assertion that a position is different from another position based on the language, when in fact, both positions are exactly the same -- at least in practice or practical terms.

Distinction without a difference is a fallacy that often appears in philosophical or political debate. The basic version of the fallacy occurs when a person prefers, or insists on, one term to a synonymous term, even though there is no substantive difference in meaning between the two. The arguer will typically claim that a nuanced distinction between two terms makes them incompatible as synonyms. While a linguistic distinction may in fact occur, if the generally accepted meaning of both terms are not changed by the distinction, the arguer is creating a logical fallacy. Distinction without a difference is frequently an aspect of political arguments.

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Why don't most people care whether a gun is semi-automatic or automatic? [View all] pnwmom Dec 2012 OP

there is a difference and to argue from a position of ignorance weakens any valid points you make NightWatcher Dec 2012 #1

The OP said the difference was *irrelevant*... gcomeau Dec 2012 #2

The OP is ignorant and angry ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #4

Says a poster... gcomeau Dec 2012 #8

I read the OP prior to posting and stand by my observations ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #13

Right, the fact you have a hard on for guns is established Whovian Dec 2012 #101

When you are standing on the side of mass murderers of 6-7 year olds.. 99Forever Dec 2012 #25

I have things I would like to see done to change things for the better. ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #28

What did I say that was factually incorrect? n/t pnwmom Dec 2012 #43

These guys think... 99Forever Dec 2012 #78

I missed seeing your comment when I posted below, you are absolutely right. That is what it is stevenleser Dec 2012 #83

That's exactly what it is laundry_queen Dec 2012 #99

I feel many on your side should be totally honest and simply say you wish to ban ... spin Dec 2012 #157

I'm willing to consider the legality of a single shot rifle that is difficult to reload. stevenleser Dec 2012 #167

Really? You're the one pushing to keep the weapon Lanza used legal Recursion Dec 2012 #105

Hogwash. 99Forever Dec 2012 #119

I admit to being angry. What did I say that was factually incorrect? n/t pnwmom Dec 2012 #42

Actually nothing I would comment on , your post was your opinion former-republican Dec 2012 #49

So there was nothing factually incorrect intaglio Dec 2012 #129

The OP is absolutely correct. robinlynne Dec 2012 #53

The OP is clearly in command of the facts . . . MrModerate Dec 2012 #75

Especially with the addition of bump stocks or rubber bands, making them for all intents and purpose RC Dec 2012 #144

I don't care if they are semi or automatic. Any gun that fires rounds like that roguevalley Dec 2012 #81

A fully auto weapon has not been used Jenoch Dec 2012 #103

No automatic weapon has been used in any mass shooting in the US Recursion Dec 2012 #108

For a "Professor" you are ignorant of the word ignorant intaglio Dec 2012 #127

A high percentage of gun toters/abusers are too. Hoyt Dec 2012 #128

i understood that. samsingh Dec 2012 #34

This s what is amazing nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #5

Which countries military does Bushmaster have a contract with to export their AR 15 to? former-republican Dec 2012 #6

Did I say army? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #15

Please link where Bushmasters are being found all over combat zones former-republican Dec 2012 #16

You can call CNN Christianne Ammanpour saw them in Bosnia nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #23

Okay , what you meant to say was that some AR types have been found in other countries former-republican Dec 2012 #27

They are out there nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #30

Don't forget the foreign manufacturers like the Chinese Norinco and there CQ AR variant pediatricmedic Dec 2012 #68

this sounds like LORD OF WAR riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #66

Led of War is based on one trader nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #69

read in mother jones. riverbendviewgal Dec 2012 #74

You have no idea what you are talking about.. Mec9000 Dec 2012 #9

Yeah I don't why they are in the weapons black market. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #11

The ones in Mexico were given to them by the ATF the rest I suspect are M16 clones Mec9000 Dec 2012 #14

They were? No son, they are bought all along the border nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #19

around the world they want full auto not a semi auto... AKs much cheaper in the third world. Mec9000 Dec 2012 #26

Of course they aren't former-republican Dec 2012 #29

Not as expensive as you think nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #35

They are being smuggled and also sold legally to Mexican authorities former-republican Dec 2012 #45

Mexico issues FAL to line troops nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #48

This message was self-deleted by its author former-republican Dec 2012 #56

It's the FX-05 former-republican Dec 2012 #58

That the federal police uses M-16 and M-4 yes nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #61

Yup, must be nice to live in this fantasy. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #32

Evidence? intaglio Dec 2012 #131

He's gone to the big billh58 Dec 2012 #148

I still think the Stone Pizza should be put in the avatar frame intaglio Dec 2012 #156

We have no easy way to know if Bushmaster ever received a FMS contract ProgressiveProfessor Dec 2012 #18

Evidence, I'm sure the people who pointed you towards this discussion could provide some n/t intaglio Dec 2012 #130

There is a whole lot of that going on these days. geckosfeet Dec 2012 #12

at least Biden is working on it, and he wrote the previous AWB bill. It had a lot of good points NightWatcher Dec 2012 #20

That's not good enough! We should all be educated enough on gunnery to write legislation ourselves!! bettyellen Dec 2012 #31

You obviously don't know your Glock from a Colt in the ground. :) n/t klook Dec 2012 #77

Yep, and I'm proud of it! bettyellen Dec 2012 #85

Agreed klook Dec 2012 #86

Well, not STFU, but at least listen when those of us who do know guns... Recursion Dec 2012 #111

It sounds like Biden is on the right track. n/t pnwmom Dec 2012 #44

Oh - I did not know he wrote the 1994 bill. It did not hold up too well. geckosfeet Dec 2012 #55

I don't think Biden should be claiming Jenoch Dec 2012 #110

I am a (multiple) firearm owner. Have you heard of 'slide bump'? DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #17

Spoken like a true billh58 Dec 2012 #149

. 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #154

If we are to have any hope of ever improving the gun laws in our nation ... spin Dec 2012 #162

I am not NRA DollarBillHines Dec 2012 #170

There is a semantic difference but not an important difference. pnwmom Dec 2012 #33

Both need to be removed form our country yesterday! It does not matter what you call it. robinlynne Dec 2012 #52

continually bizarre BainsBane Dec 2012 #71

Offensive is right. good post. nt laundry_queen Dec 2012 #100

Really? I'm seeing assistance called "derailing" Recursion Dec 2012 #109

Diane Feinstein has legislation BainsBane Dec 2012 #115

And if you want to assist BainsBane Dec 2012 #116

No, that was what I have in mind. I'd like to see handguns significantly restricted Recursion Dec 2012 #122

Hog wallow. It is the mindset that is attracted to the military knockoffs that is a major problem. RC Dec 2012 #146

Trying to help? billh58 Dec 2012 #155

Who the **** do you think I am and you are? Recursion Dec 2012 #158

No my gunner friend, it's billh58 Dec 2012 #159

I second that. Good post. RC Dec 2012 #145

It used to be Uzi's now it's Bushmasters, nothing much different? xtraxritical Dec 2012 #72

Not true DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2012 #79

+1 nt laundry_queen Dec 2012 #102

OK, but if I wanted to end multihoming and my solution was to ban BGP ... Recursion Dec 2012 #112

The bickering over details is how the NRA exhausts opponents of mass murder weapons _Liann_ Dec 2012 #114

A weapon similar to the Bushmaster WAS NOT Jenoch Dec 2012 #136

It's a "distinction without a difference". SharonAnn Dec 2012 #121

There is a difference but you don't really care unless you LOVE this ad... Pholus Dec 2012 #153

Ignorance makes bad preparation for writing laws. For example, those who want to bad the evil jody Dec 2012 #3

And...as I told my congress critter nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #7

And, conversely, these non-semi-automatic models would be A-OK. NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #10

I didn't say that. I proved the term semi automatic does not mean all firearms with that type action jody Dec 2012 #21

I wasn't contesting your point... NYC_SKP Dec 2012 #24

Mea culpa. Sad that anti-gun DUers are just a click from a group that IMO has the finest group of jody Dec 2012 #38

The anti-gun brigade is proposing to limit high capacity magazines and drums. pnwmom Dec 2012 #46

They are proposing more guns, and more guns everywhere, as always. Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #47

I have opinions but I want to hear other people's credible ideas. Please post your thoughts at jody Dec 2012 #54

pnwmom you conflate magazines with proposals to prevent another Sandy Hook Tragedy. Too many posts jody Dec 2012 #88

Why isn't it an effective option to ban the possession of high capacity magazines? pnwmom Dec 2012 #91

"Too many posts have repeated ad nauseam the simple fact that hundreds of millions of high capacity jody Dec 2012 #93

If criminals aren't affected by laws, why do we have ANY criminal laws? pnwmom Dec 2012 #96

"why do we have ANY criminal laws?" Excellent question to which I also would like an answer. jody Dec 2012 #97

Simple. I don't need to do a survey. pnwmom Dec 2012 #98

I wonder what all those people are doing in prison, then. Iggo Dec 2012 #142

Ask pnwmom #96 nt jody Dec 2012 #143

Yeah, but you and me both know they ain't all pot smokers. Iggo Dec 2012 #163

Because making the magazines illegal would be as ineffective as making marijuana illegal has been Recursion Dec 2012 #113

You can require guns not to be made with removable magazines. pnwmom Dec 2012 #117

Yes! That you can do Recursion Dec 2012 #120

HA HA- Only the pro-gunners want to or can help with good gun regulations, HA HA bettyellen Dec 2012 #87

Actually they already have helped with gun regulations. That is why we are having this problem now. RC Dec 2012 #147

It took me 10 minutes to stop laughing at this intaglio Dec 2012 #133

The cycling is automatic in both Jenoch Dec 2012 #138

Except prior to the NRA redefinition project intaglio Dec 2012 #141

I'm saying that guns should be highly restricted, not necessarily banned, pnwmom Dec 2012 #36

"pause to reload" Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #22

Amy Bishop, the woman who shot other faculty at Alabama U, pnwmom Dec 2012 #37

Just because one person was notably incompetent... Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #40

Being psychotic, as many of these shooters are, doesn't tend to enhance competency. pnwmom Dec 2012 #76

True. But that's a small number of an already small number. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #80

The problem is that many hunting rifles are semi-automatic, though carrying only 4 or 5 rounds. eallen Dec 2012 #39

most people don't know the difference between a scud missile and a patriot missile spanone Dec 2012 #41

Patriots dont kill, they are only fired at other missiles. nt stevenleser Dec 2012 #84

if I get run over by a car while out walking no one is going to care if it was a Chevy or Ford. likesmountains 52 Dec 2012 #50

Thank-you!!!!!! +1000 robinlynne Dec 2012 #51

Agreed No Distinction - It Took Lanza 10 Minutes To Slaughter 26 People - 2.6 People Per Minute cantbeserious Dec 2012 #57

The difference is that his semi-auto weapon janx Dec 2012 #60

Yes - Maybe - But A Distinction Without Much Merit When Viewed Through The Prism Of Destruction cantbeserious Dec 2012 #62

You could still create a massacre with a conventional semi-automatic weapon. janx Dec 2012 #65

what if the bullets only travel 1200 feet PER SECOND? OneTenthofOnePercent Dec 2012 #59

As Many Have Pointed Out - The NRA And Gun Apologists Don't Seem To Demonstrate Much Compassion cantbeserious Dec 2012 #63

You're right: there's a lot of fact-vomiting and mansplaining Recursion Dec 2012 #123

My Response - Repeal The 2nd Amendment - Outlaw All Firearms Now! - The Latest, Two Firefighters Dead cantbeserious Dec 2012 #132

And I think doing that would kill a whole lot of people Recursion Dec 2012 #134

I Am Past Half Measures With The Body Count Steadily Rising - I Do Not Support Your Position cantbeserious Dec 2012 #135

Actually semi-automatics may be more deadly under the circumstances we worry about. nm rhett o rick Dec 2012 #64

Proposed solution. AtheistCrusader Dec 2012 #67

if it looks like only a military person should be carrying it, it's a machine gun. pansypoo53219 Dec 2012 #70

What makes a weapon look like only a military person should be carrying it? Recursion Dec 2012 #107

Do most people really not care? ManiacJoe Dec 2012 #73

I think pro-gun folks are deliberately trying to steer discussions into the weeds with these stevenleser Dec 2012 #82

"how much damage it can do in a short amount of time" What is your specification? nt jody Dec 2012 #89

My 'specification' is a public discourse on the subject. nt stevenleser Dec 2012 #90

We've had "public discourse" that produced the AWB. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention jody Dec 2012 #92

No, we havent stevenleser Dec 2012 #94

So we disagree. See link below. The anti-gun community has been trying for decades to jody Dec 2012 #95

see, that's the weeds thing he was talking about. Not taking the bait. bettyellen Dec 2012 #137

No, I think our party has been burned before by people who know squat about guns writing laws Recursion Dec 2012 #104

No, I didnt say that. I dont care about the things you are talking about. Thats what I am saying. stevenleser Dec 2012 #118

This message was self-deleted by its author Recursion Dec 2012 #106

Exactly. And of course they know more about it treestar Dec 2012 #125

"What I DONT know is the demarcation point between whether a gun is an assault weapon or not. Jenoch Dec 2012 #139

No, it was a dismal failure because it concerned an obscure and irrelevant classification. stevenleser Dec 2012 #140

Thank you. That's a good criterion. It also is a criterion... Recursion Dec 2012 #161

And that should make me unhappy why exactly? stevenleser Dec 2012 #168

Obviously I can't speak for you personally Recursion Dec 2012 #169

Does it look like a hunting rifle, or a military weapon - a military knock-off, such as a Bushmaster RC Dec 2012 #150

OK, but you can't do anything with an "assault weapon" that you can't do with a hunting rifle Recursion Dec 2012 #164

Keep reading. RC Dec 2012 #165

The rubber band is just as ineffective with assault weapons as it is with hunting rifles Recursion Dec 2012 #166

Just try to explain that billh58 Dec 2012 #171

I agree - attempts to sidetrack on that issue should result in treestar Dec 2012 #124

It only took about 15 shots to change the entire world graham4anything Dec 2012 #126

Tell that to the parents of the 20 kids at Sandy Point. RC Dec 2012 #151

my statement is not in disagreement with your thought graham4anything Dec 2012 #172

Would that include handguns? revolvers and other automatics? nt 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #152

The reason the difference needs to be pointed out... Deep13 Dec 2012 #160