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In reply to the discussion: Question [View all]

patrice

(47,992 posts)
49. Public v. Private is the focus of the question. Your guns your home, that's your business, NOT ours.
Wed Dec 26, 2012, 05:09 PM
Dec 2012

Your guns in our public places that's a different sort of question, because many of us do not want to be pulled into violent situations that we were not even allowed, to whatever extent possible, the choice options afforded us in the 2nd Amendment having to do with "the security of a free State", in which we happen to live with others who have made choices counter to our own security and my/our choices are prevented by concealed carry.

The PUBLIC question about the security of a free state also extends to the uses of our armed forces. This applies to limited types of guns suitable for assault.

I can't imagine what kinds of situations might provoke assault from a privately armed position upon public domain, other than criminal activity, but under some other circumstances perhaps there could be some situations in which private assaults public, for whatever reason, and "justified" or not, such rationale and such hypothetical activities would result in the use of public resources, armed forces, to respond upon to private assault upon public. This hypothetical possibility is the point at which I, as a member of the public, do have a right to mitigate against the effect upon public resources, not only in whatever the object of the private assault upon public is, but also in the effect of that assault upon a public human resource known as law enforcement and/or military, both of whom at minimum must expend financial resources to respond to private assault on public, and at worst, suffer injury and death, effects upon people who have committed themselves to public service, so we have responsibility for what happens to them, and so also, why we should accept our responsibilities to respond to the possibilities of private assault upon the public in any form of its public resources.

Now, we should consider the reciprocal hypothetical scenario: public assault upon private. I know that there are examples in our history that reveal people's concerns for how this can and has happened, I cannot deny that possibility, but I believe that history would also show that in most such incidents, alternative forms of public response to private actions were not explored, though that leaves aside the questions of whether whatever alternatives there were their potentiality were mitigated or prevented, intentionally or otherwise, so the question of whether there are/were alternatives to public assault on private is a moot point. Let's just leave this point that there are likely alternative responses to public assault on private. I don't accept that public entities unilaterally assault private entities out of the clear blue, but I do accept that there are probably alternatives that, for one reason or another, intentionally or otherwise, are not pursued.

One hypothetical scenario I have left out is: private assault upon private. This is an important possibility because it is directly germane to the question of certain kinds of information being made public as illustrate by the story that prompted this thread. If the factor representing privately owned assault capabilities says, TTE, "Public has no concern of assault from this private assault power, because ___________________ " they could be accepted at their word, unless that "... because __________________ " is broken , again intentionally or otherwise, and the nullification of that "because" could come from factors internal to the private assault potentiated domain, in which case public could be considered responsible to protect private assault from private assault, for the security of a free State, or the nullification of that "because" could also come, intentionally or otherwise, from public assault potentiated factors external to the private domain.

In any case: private assault upon public, or public assault on private, or private assault on private, we end up once again and again in the position of the use of public resources, with or without m/your consent, BECAUSE of the inherent reciprocity of assault capabilities.

I'm okay about people owning guns in the privacy of their homes. That private information about a private context should not be shared. When any gun become a factor in any public domain, that affects the rest of us and assault weapons have the potential of becoming such factors in ways that are not characteristic of other types of guns. In any case: private assault upon public, or public assault on private, or private assault on private, we end up again and again in the position of using of public resources, with or without m/your consent, BECAUSE of the inherent reciprocity of assault capabilities, all of which are beyond the control of most of those who can be affected by the, intentional or otherwise, use of assault weapons by ANY assault potentiated element in any situation.

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Question [View all] Whovian Dec 2012 OP
In 1989 Rebecca Shaeffer was murdered by a stalker who got her address from the California DMV slackmaster Dec 2012 #1
Was she a weapon owner? Whovian Dec 2012 #3
It doesn't matter whether she was or not. Her address was public information at the time. slackmaster Dec 2012 #6
If you have a phone book, 99 percent of our addresses Whovian Dec 2012 #8
People have the CHOICE to not have their addresses published in phone books. Mine is not. slackmaster Dec 2012 #14
Dark place my ass. Whovian Dec 2012 #20
Here are some facts to shed a little light on your baseless bogus statistic slackmaster Dec 2012 #25
Okay, lets make it simpler for simple minds, Whovian Dec 2012 #48
Yes, but they don't know that it's me who lives there slackmaster Dec 2012 #51
My, delicate flower nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #17
The "proud" ones don't mind Recursion Dec 2012 #2
I thought the gun nuts would LOVE the idea. Won't that deter 'bad dudes' from taking YOUR shit? PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #4
Care to explain your "logic"? nt hack89 Dec 2012 #7
It's based on the gun nuts' 'logic' that gun-free zones = criminal haven. PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #10
Thieves would simply wait until the owners are gone hack89 Dec 2012 #12
I know, there's always an argument against regulation/public record. PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #15
You know that by law criminals cannot be held accountable for failing to register their guns? hack89 Dec 2012 #21
"Of the 142 guns possessed by the killers, more than three quarters were obtained legally. PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #24
And how would registration stop such killings? hack89 Dec 2012 #26
I don't claim it would. But I think guns and the owners should be registered. PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #27
So while they would not actually make anyone safer hack89 Dec 2012 #29
They're registered in Canada and LEO's accesses those records 14,000 times per DAY. PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #34
Auditor General appears to disagree with you hack89 Dec 2012 #39
Keep reading your own link.... PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #40
Cops are authoritarian by nature. hack89 Dec 2012 #41
Registration would NOT infringe on your fucking 'civil liberty', dude. PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #43
It will never happen at the federal level so I am not really that concerned hack89 Dec 2012 #46
What specific purpose would registration serve? Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #37
read above. A tool for mental health professionals and LEO PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #42
Thank you! Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #44
I know that a lot of the focus is on the mass shootings recently, but gun violence is a lot more PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #47
Agreed...and that focus has frustrated me. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #52
We've all been there, especially when discussing issues about which we're passionate. PeaceNikki Dec 2012 #53
Why would that matter?? Don't responsible gun owners lock their weapons up when they leave madinmaryland Dec 2012 #31
If it brings criminals to the house hack89 Dec 2012 #33
Yes, responsible gun owners do just that. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #35
Since we keep hearing how criminals steal all their guns hack89 Dec 2012 #5
I give up, tell us the answer. HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #9
If one depends on logic Whovian Dec 2012 #11
I think the fault in logic is yours. HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #18
Why would you want to publish a shopping list for gun thieves? hack89 Dec 2012 #13
Didn't you know? Whovian Dec 2012 #16
And you agree with them or do you believe that guns are frequently stolen? hack89 Dec 2012 #19
Now that you've completely abandoned any pretense at actual rational discussion... Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #30
If everyone is so proud that they voted for "insert name here" .... Lurker Deluxe Dec 2012 #22
It is the fear of the government getting a copy of said list, benld74 Dec 2012 #23
what happened to responsibility chuckrocks Dec 2012 #28
I certainly consider it to be. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #32
well I guess we'll find out soon... chuckrocks Dec 2012 #36
Possibly so. Glad I don't live there. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #38
doing this is simply oddoneout Dec 2012 #45
1+++ patrice Dec 2012 #50
Public v. Private is the focus of the question. Your guns your home, that's your business, NOT ours. patrice Dec 2012 #49
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