General Discussion

exboyfil

(18,357 posts)

30. Just wait

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 01:00 PM

Dec 2012

It is not about the event, it is about the probability that it will happen. Lanza had a 12 gauge semiauto with an extended magazine in the trunk of his car. The question was no more firepower (actually the original post was poorly worded) than in the 1970s. I am making the assertion that unprecedented firepower is in the hands of civilians, and at some point that firepower will be used.

"Regarding semi-automatic cyclic rate of fire, we witnessed the Saiga fire twenty-eight ( 28 ) 12 gauge rounds, on target, in just under 14 seconds. The shooter had 10 rounds in the first mag and downloaded the second and third mags to 9 rounds to increase mag insertion speed."

I have also seen a video of someone using bump fire and putting 20 rounds with a reasonable level of accuracy if you don't care what you are hitting.

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With the destructive power of guns increasing year over year something HAS to be done [View all] samsingh Dec 2012 OP

What do you suggest? nt jmg257 Dec 2012 #1

just that something will have to be done and 2nd amendment proponents can't keep ignoring samsingh Dec 2012 #6

Grenade-like bullets? (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #21

Its their "when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor" moment. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #29

you just like making shit up samsingh Dec 2012 #114

I tend to agree that it will be economics that causes changes-- marions ghost Dec 2012 #111

A false premise does not lead to a productive discussion slackmaster Dec 2012 #2

no productive discussion has been happening since 1995 samsingh Dec 2012 #3

I'd set the date at 1913 slackmaster Dec 2012 #5

let's try to stick with American history during our lifetimes samsingh Dec 2012 #7

The "destructive power" of guns has not increased in a long, long time slackmaster Dec 2012 #9

well it's not you i'm trying to convince in any case, but expressing my opinion samsingh Dec 2012 #17

12 gauge semiautomatic shotguns exboyfil Dec 2012 #19

Can you find one example of a homicide involving a semi-automatic shotgun with a 20 round magazine ? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #23

Just wait exboyfil Dec 2012 #30

There's more of them than assault weapon murders sir pball Dec 2012 #31

Right. Handguns are about 75% of homicides. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #44

2.8% sir pball Dec 2012 #51

All firearms are ~75%, handguns are ~50% sir pball Dec 2012 #53

Oh, yes. I agree. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #64

A few years back you could not point to one nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #159

World War 2 M1 Garand vs. 21st Century Gun Nut AR15 + 30 round clip jpak Dec 2012 #128

.30-'06 muzzle energy near 3,000 foot-pounds. 5.56 mm muzzle energy about 1,100 foot-pounds. slackmaster Dec 2012 #130

Yet another gun nuttery deflection - why doesn't the US Army use the M1 Garard today? jpak Dec 2012 #138

If I want to destroy something at 500 or 600 yards slackmaster Dec 2012 #139

No, it is not the weight. nadinbrzezinski Dec 2012 #160

my new favorite response, can I steal it? NightWatcher Dec 2012 #8

Please do. I have more than 1,000 "gun threads" in my trash bin slackmaster Dec 2012 #10

same here Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #12

why do you trivialize rape that way? samsingh Dec 2012 #15

wow that's so witty samsingh Dec 2012 #78

Is this about the Columbine shootings? mmonk Dec 2012 #4

Guns have not become significantly more powerful since about World War I (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #11

You knew shit was going to turn bad when wal-turd ileus Dec 2012 #13

Congratulations...a new world record in hyperbole! HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #14

my point is being made about what is important to some gun proponents samsingh Dec 2012 #16

The only point you've made is that you haven't a clue what you're talking about. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #20

how could it be fabrication when i'm making a forecast? samsingh Dec 2012 #22

Oh, bullshit. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #26

i can see your ability to talk about a point rationally - let me try your reasoning samsingh Dec 2012 #36

I didn't make the claim firepower was increasing exponentially year by year. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #46

you clearly - and i'll type this slowly - don't understand what you are taking about or reading in samsingh Dec 2012 #71

Duh, because your posts are nothing but ignorant babble. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #86

prove i'm wrong samsingh Dec 2012 #91

You made the initial claim, you back it up. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author samsingh Dec 2012 #100

if gun capabilities have not changed since the late 1800s (i laugh as i type this) samsingh Dec 2012 #104

Many reasons. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #110

so you've answered the question you've been pestering me with samsingh Dec 2012 #115

As an unbiased observer - pretty lame, Sam. jmg257 Dec 2012 #117

ASSAULT RIFLES AND THEIR AMMUNITION:HISTORY AND PROSPECTS samsingh Dec 2012 #118

Not true at all. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #126

as a comparison samsingh Dec 2012 #119

Have you ever seen a BAR? The M1918 version? jmg257 Dec 2012 #121

the M14 appears to be pretty bulky. The AR-15 is far easier to handle. samsingh Dec 2012 #122

That is true...which is why they were adopted (m16). Little to do with OP though. Nt jmg257 Dec 2012 #123

this is not a f=ma or e=mc2 discussion samsingh Dec 2012 #124

So you are saying the firepower of a rifle is dependant on its APPEARANCE? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #127

You're asking him/her to prove a negative. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #59

i'm being asked to prove my forecast samsingh Dec 2012 #69

It's silly when it's being done to you, too. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #73

i was making a forecast - empirical evidence is used to validate a point - not a forecast. samsingh Dec 2012 #75

Actually, empirical evidence is used to substantiate forecasts all the time. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #79

here's one of many web definitions samsingh Dec 2012 #82

OK, let's see the empirical data supporting your "forecast". HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #88

i'm laughing at your complete disregard for what i'm trying to say samsingh Dec 2012 #89

You've made preposterous claims, unsubstantiated by any facts. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #97

why do you think i care whether you address it or not - your acceptance or rejection is completely samsingh Dec 2012 #102

So, you are unable to substantiate even one claim. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #112

guess you can't understand the multiple threads woven in my paragraph samsingh Dec 2012 #113

No, you didn't make a forecast. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #87

firepower has increased exponentially samsingh Dec 2012 #90

Prove it. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #98

you prove it hasn't for every weapon and bullet that is available samsingh Dec 2012 #101

Okay, here's proof you're wrong. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #125

interesting samsingh Dec 2012 #129

Assault weapons are designed for a mobile army. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #131

if they are designed for a mobile army, why are assualt rifles allowed to be owned by civilians? samsingh Dec 2012 #132

Only semi-automatic versions are. Automatics are difficult to own. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #133

is it possible to turn a semi-automatic into an automatic weapon ? samsingh Dec 2012 #134

The parts to do so are as tightly regulated as auto weapons are. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #135

This message was self-deleted by its author samsingh Dec 2012 #136

that's a good control samsingh Dec 2012 #137

Depends on how one defines "firepower" Kaleva Dec 2012 #49

Correct. And those changes reflect the changes in how modern war is conducted. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #61

please explain how guns are getting more powerful backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #18

it's only about guns, that i'm asked to provide links on even the most samsingh Dec 2012 #24

I never called you any names backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #27

i'm not surprised that 'you're a gun owner' samsingh Dec 2012 #32

Slow down. Gun violence is at the lowest level in 40 years Recursion Dec 2012 #34

are you familar with the massacres in the last couple of weeks? samsingh Dec 2012 #37

Yes. Do you remember the 1990s? Recursion Dec 2012 #39

i don't think it matters to the massacred children, their families, or people like me who care and samsingh Dec 2012 #42

Yes, that's the problem with plunging crime rates Recursion Dec 2012 #47

"Plunging crime rates" bongbong Dec 2012 #56

I've never been a "rights" or "defense" person Recursion Dec 2012 #65

LOL bongbong Dec 2012 #66

Ludicrous Recursion Dec 2012 #67

Still LOL bongbong Dec 2012 #68

love the laughing figure - potentially show how important the gun massacre topic may be to you samsingh Dec 2012 #80

Not laughing at the slaughter bongbong Dec 2012 #84

okay, that makes sense samsingh Dec 2012 #93

prove gun control doesn't work samsingh Dec 2012 #77

The District of Columbia (nt) Recursion Dec 2012 #140

where are the links and have you isolated out factors such as gang violence and poverty samsingh Dec 2012 #143

DC banned guns. Gun prevalence increased Recursion Dec 2012 #145

if we're talking in good faith, i think other factors have to weigh in samsingh Dec 2012 #146

If you are going to factor in Jenoch Dec 2012 #151

i think we should consider those - especially lives that were saved when a gun was available for samsingh Dec 2012 #152

there are 20 butchered children and adults who put themselves in front of bullets to save other samsingh Dec 2012 #72

cool backwoodsbob Dec 2012 #52

OK, provide proof firepower is exponentially increasing year by year. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #28

'provide proof' samsingh Dec 2012 #33

The technology of guns is unchanged since the early 1900s for the most part Recursion Dec 2012 #35

bigger caliber bullets, lighter guns, ability to fire more bullets per minute samsingh Dec 2012 #38

Bullets have been getting smaller, not bigger. Guns cannot fire more bullets per minute now... Recursion Dec 2012 #43

Guns easily can fire more rounds per minute now then could be done in the 1890's Kaleva Dec 2012 #60

Yes, if you go back 120 years, that's true. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #62

Slide stocks are relatively new. Kaleva Dec 2012 #63

you asked a question - in your last line - you admit that polymers samsingh Dec 2012 #74

No, it's really, really not Recursion Dec 2012 #141

i don't remember historical incidents where someone massacred dozens of people samsingh Dec 2012 #142

And yet the technology to do so existed Recursion Dec 2012 #144

problem: there are many massacres where guns are involved and guns make samsingh Dec 2012 #147

for the people making the rules - it's about profits and money samsingh Dec 2012 #148

*shrug* the PTB could profit from weed if they wanted to Recursion Dec 2012 #150

actually it has samsingh Dec 2012 #153

Guns make massacres easier. Guns haven't changed in 100 years or so. Recursion Dec 2012 #149

assualt rifles were not available pre world war I samsingh Dec 2012 #154

They were called carbines, and cavalry and dragoons had them Recursion Dec 2012 #155

some changes samsingh Dec 2012 #156

OK, so you're describing changes from the 1940's Recursion Dec 2012 #158

but they're still changing every year - what are they changing? samsingh Dec 2012 #161

Nothing, really. Like I said the main designs today are from the 1950's and earlier Recursion Dec 2012 #163

some research from the net samsingh Dec 2012 #162

Someone introduced a hunting handgun cartridge? Jesus, you're stretching there Recursion Dec 2012 #164

there is a relationship between bullet size, shape, muzzle size, energy, etc samsingh Dec 2012 #165

Only one of those is true (lighter guns). Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #48

"obvious points" ??? Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #41

the more time I spend on DU lately EnviroBat Dec 2012 #25

of course, we should just chuck up massacres - or better still - go buy more guns samsingh Dec 2012 #40

In the same boat. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #45

Not only the hysteria, falsehoods, and name-calling, HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #50

The discussions on Meta about deliberate, organized attempts to silence other posters... Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #55

And not to Berserker Dec 2012 #57

btw - you're not obligated to respond or even read the whole post of something you don't agree with samsingh Dec 2012 #70

Oh, believe me, I often don't these days. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #81

thanks for viewpoints - they are respectful - and i appreciate that samsingh Dec 2012 #83

I try to keep it that way. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #85

thanks samsingh Dec 2012 #92

bullet dissassembley the antigun Dec 2012 #54

That's a fair point. Lizzie Poppet Dec 2012 #58

Follow Fienstien's example shintao Dec 2012 #76

The premise of the OP is false cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #94

and what sensible gun control would you propose? samsingh Dec 2012 #95

I don't consider the 2nd Amd a personal right, so cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #96

makes sense samsingh Dec 2012 #103

Something does need to be done. CrispyQ Dec 2012 #105

that's what i'm seeing samsingh Dec 2012 #106

more gun deaths - this time inside a police station samsingh Dec 2012 #107

It's every day. CrispyQ Dec 2012 #108

there are what 300 million guns in the country samsingh Dec 2012 #109

keep singing sam marions ghost Dec 2012 #120

Epic fail. closeupready Dec 2012 #116

i think some good points were expressed in this thread samsingh Dec 2012 #157

did they invent some new caliber of bullet or something? what did i miss? dionysus Dec 2012 #166

Everything is 'new' to someone just getting up to speed. n/t X_Digger Dec 2012 #167

i'm pretty much up to speed samsingh Dec 2012 #168

So now you understand that the only recent changes are in materials and reliability, rather than X_Digger Dec 2012 #169

some stuff coming down the pipe samsingh Dec 2012 #170