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bigtree

(94,333 posts)

67. well, we can't pretend that every initiative and action by the federal government was beneficial

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 01:37 PM

Dec 2012

. . . and beyond criticism. Most of these landmark laws didn't resemble the comprehensive and inclusive legislation that bear the same names today.

Personally, I believe in the primacy of the federal government in the realization and perpetuation of rights guaranteed under the school segregation laws, if that's that you're referring to. It's indisputable that the rights enumerated under the 14th and 15th Amendments, for example, were just abstractions without the federal government stepping in to defend those rights.

That's a very different observation, though, than asserting that there's some need (or acceptability) for the federal government to send in troops today. I still have to wonder where you see that need? I don't think that makes for progressive philosophy to expect that extraordinary intervention today, unless, of course, you can demonstrate some breakdown in the state govt./ judicial system that comes close to what we experienced in the days of Brown.

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In a now locked thread, critical of DUers, critical President Obama ... [View all] 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 OP

Why not Stonewall? MNBrewer Dec 2012 #1

Stonewall ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #5

The initial response was spontaneous, but it was what happened afterward that made the event importa OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #15

+1 bigtree Dec 2012 #24

Rosa Parks was actually part of the organization that planned the boycott lunatica Dec 2012 #47

Rosa Parks actions that day were spontaneous FreeState Dec 2012 #49

Yes. That's what I was trying to say lunatica Dec 2012 #51

They were not spontaneous, they were 20 years in the making: grantcart Dec 2012 #136

I was referring to her specific actions that day FreeState Dec 2012 #157

she was naacp secretary. they'd been looking for test cases for a bus boycott for some time HiPointDem Dec 2012 #98

I'm shocked by how man DUers in this thread do not know the Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #122

The way American history has been taught in this country lunatica Dec 2012 #130

Stonewall wasn't as spontaneous as people think either FreeState Dec 2012 #48

+1 eom arely staircase Dec 2012 #132

That's a bit of a stretch Yavin4 Dec 2012 #63

I don't think the people who participated in that "street action" were particularly "progressive," MADem Dec 2012 #83

My point exactly n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #112

I disagree FreeState Dec 2012 #115

Republicans were not racist pigs back then--MLK was a registered Republican. MADem Dec 2012 #129

So in effect your saying Progressives were not part of either party FreeState Dec 2012 #135

No, I am not saying that at all. I am saying that progressive values were not the impetus for the MADem Dec 2012 #141

100% correct -- good post bigtree Dec 2012 #2

From Bayard Rustin's 'From Montgomery To Stonewall'- just to add more from Rustin, for the OP Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #9

I wonder how Duers would feel today bigtree Dec 2012 #16

He also knew and spoke at length about the fact that activism toward legislative changes can Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #22

heh bigtree Dec 2012 #35

Social Security was incremental. It didn't initially provide universal coverage KittyWampus Dec 2012 #146

The Founding of Social security was NOT incremental at all. bvar22 Dec 2012 #150

Unbelievable. What I posted is factually correct yet you decide to try and argue. KittyWampus Dec 2012 #154

bears repeating for the deniers of the very important slights in that initial bill bigtree Dec 2012 #164

Unbelievable?... only to those who refuse to acknowlege it bvar22 Dec 2012 #175

then your opposition to the ACA health insurance act must follow the same logic bigtree Dec 2012 #176

If YOU can point out the Foundation Cornerstone of the ACA... bvar22 Dec 2012 #178

exactly bigtree Dec 2012 #179

You know, this is one thing that reminds me of the glacial progress of change tavalon Dec 2012 #165

I remember a president sending federal troops to integrate schools in the South Fumesucker Dec 2012 #3

You've seen it ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #6

Secessionists are trolls Fumesucker Dec 2012 #8

I'd think that would be because there isn't a complete breakdown in the justice system bigtree Dec 2012 #7

I was just giving an example of bold presidential action Fumesucker Dec 2012 #10

well, yeah bigtree Dec 2012 #12

True, the federal government is much more powerful now than it was then n/t Fumesucker Dec 2012 #14

So are we. i.e. the Internet. randome Dec 2012 #42

You're right, it would be much easier today to organize to fight forced integration Fumesucker Dec 2012 #52

that's more true than you pretend bigtree Dec 2012 #55

I grew up then and there, my perspective is a little different Fumesucker Dec 2012 #62

well, we can't pretend that every initiative and action by the federal government was beneficial bigtree Dec 2012 #67

No need to get so defensive, everything is fine Fumesucker Dec 2012 #75

I always have to remind myself bigtree Dec 2012 #76

I love you too Fumesucker Dec 2012 #90

To a certain extent, yes. Light is the most effective disinfectant we have. randome Dec 2012 #57

I see the disinfectant working the other way, I grew up in that time and place Fumesucker Dec 2012 #61

+1 HiPointDem Dec 2012 #100

What is the point you are trying to make about Stonewall? Do you know what happened that night? Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #4

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #26

What do you mean 'this was what I understood'? Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #32

I have done ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #40

You are typing incomprehensible responses. Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #50

The point is well made Rex Dec 2012 #180

wow, dave van ronk was arrested there. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #104

Media acclimates us to think that only immediate, dramatic change is possible. randome Dec 2012 #11

I have posted a few links about Stonewall which I do not expect you to have courage to read Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #13

I read both articles linked ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #31

"they didn't do anything but organize others' vs 'it was not planned as the other actions were'. Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #36

The involvement of ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #41

Well you are not being clear at all. Your OP did not even provide a link for context to the thread Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #58

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #64

You are the one who made Stonewall rhetorical football of your screed here today. Not me. Bluenorthwest Dec 2012 #156

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #160

A very iintelligent post. Thank you. ywcachieve Dec 2012 #17

I don't know why your thread was blocked. Really crazy. However... Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #18

It wasn't my thread ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #34

no Skittles Dec 2012 #89

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #95

Ah ok. nt Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2012 #96

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #19

Your point would have a bit more impact if you could spell Progressive Fumesucker Dec 2012 #21

I know how to spell progressive, and jackass, too. ywcachieve Dec 2012 #25

Don't forget teabagger Fumesucker Dec 2012 #27

Your edit history begs to differ. Javaman Dec 2012 #44

they do not have the same mentality samsingh Dec 2012 #53

It's not so much ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #68

when do the progressives demonstrate rank hyprocrasy samsingh Dec 2012 #72

I don't know if I wish to engage this discussion; but .. 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #79

okay let's compromise and move on samsingh Dec 2012 #81

Alright. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #82

Of course not, you'd rather flame all the Progressives that make up the majority of the board MessiahRp Dec 2012 #134

Should I stop reading at the first, second or third inaccuracy? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #145

Thank you! Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #169

I consider ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #173

Peddle that malarkey about progressives elsewhere. n/t GoneOffShore Dec 2012 #54

sounds like a bunch of excuses hfojvt Dec 2012 #20

Amen! Thank you! Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #23

Hear! Hear! meegbear Dec 2012 #28

People protested injustice back then b/c they had unbiased reporting that told them about it! Dustlawyer Dec 2012 #29

meh, this probably should be posted in meta quinnox Dec 2012 #30

For what reason? janx Dec 2012 #38

+1 treestar Dec 2012 #33

Beautifully stated. n/t janx Dec 2012 #37

How long did it take to institute Social Security & Medicare? leftstreet Dec 2012 #39

FDR was bold and progressive, but he left a lot of people out in the cold on Social Security bigtree Dec 2012 #46

Thanks for your post. I think some tend to over romanticize the fights of the past. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #60

Exactly ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #66

oh there's been incremental change alright in the other direction liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #101

Much to your chagrin, I'm sure, we're not Europe. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #106

I'm not talking about Europe liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #107

!!! Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #113

Approximately ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #56

Obama, is that you? leftstreet Dec 2012 #65

You are quite right ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #70

Everything you wrote was on the money and substantiated pretty well. Why was the origional locked? marble falls Dec 2012 #43

Incremental steps lead to the big splashy finale lunatica Dec 2012 #45

Yeak, like starting with a chained CPI leftstreet Dec 2012 #69

Give it a rest ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #71

"Exempts the elderly, the poor, the disabled, and veterans" brentspeak Dec 2012 #85

LOL leftstreet Dec 2012 #91

I don't know how ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #126

Laugh all you wish; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #94

We forget it because it leaves the rest of us out. It is not a valid argument for chained cpi. madfloridian Dec 2012 #102

Do you not agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #108

I agree with nothing you said. madfloridian Dec 2012 #116

So you don't "agree" ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #119

Exempting a few means that harm definitely will be done to others. madfloridian Dec 2012 #128

How am I playing word games and twisting replies? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #140

Congrats on winning Dumb Post of the Week n/t brentspeak Dec 2012 #133

Thank you ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #143

The way I read that .... Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #153

yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #158

No, Carney does NOT say Obama included exemptions in his proposal. He says he "WOULD" include them.. Honeycombe8 Dec 2012 #170

Come on ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #174

What an optimist! lunatica Dec 2012 #73

what's wrong with bold, visionary progressives? noiretextatique Dec 2012 #59

Not a thing ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #78

i disagree, actually noiretextatique Dec 2012 #92

So ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #97

Excellent post malaise Dec 2012 #74

Are you, were you, trying to say LWolf Dec 2012 #77

I'm pointing out the unfortunate political reality ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #80

We sure as hell can LWolf Dec 2012 #84

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #93

Sorry. LWolf Dec 2012 #99

thank you! liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #114

You are welcome. LWolf Dec 2012 #127

Since that's your reply to my reply to the original post that you're quoting there, Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #86

you know it, Blue_in_AK Skittles Dec 2012 #88

And I join with you. Lockstep is unhealthy for any party. madfloridian Dec 2012 #103

Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #111

But at a terrible cost. madfloridian Dec 2012 #117

exactly. liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #120

Only if you disagree ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #121

I have no problem with ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #105

The reality is that President Obama is a centrist, Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #118

Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #124

As for moving the ball in the right direction, Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #125

I stand with you liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #109

DEMOCRACY Skittles Dec 2012 #87

thanks, man farminator3000 Dec 2012 #110

One of the greatest threads of all year!!!! K&R, bookmarked! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2012 #123

On Election Day You Criticized Me For Being White (In An Offensive Way) JimGinPA Dec 2012 #131

He wasn't criticizing you Jim he was making a humorous comment on the poll worker grantcart Dec 2012 #137

Are you kidding me????? 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #138

If you choose to insult one's intelligence... JimGinPA Dec 2012 #144

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #147

I've Known Grantcart For Years... JimGinPA Dec 2012 #152

With all due respect ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #155

I found this recently on a CNN blog about Rosa Parks history grantcart Dec 2012 #139

Thanks ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #148

The only steps we have been taking since the 1980's mmonk Dec 2012 #142

Okay, I understand ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #149

Not that one due to its deliberate inaccuracies. mmonk Dec 2012 #167

And until ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #172

I've learned that every kind of progress in politics usually babylonsister Dec 2012 #151

It seems like there is not a clear division between "holding feet to the fire" and... Taverner Dec 2012 #159

I agree with a lot of what you wrote; but, would point out ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #161

Makes sense to me... Taverner Dec 2012 #162

An executive order without funding to effectuate it is ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #163

Perfect thread. Your knowledge and sound grasp of the facts is exactly what I've come to expect Number23 Dec 2012 #166

Great post, and in some of your responses you speak well what Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #168

My view of what has been pivotal in the civil rights movements... MrMickeysMom Dec 2012 #171

Correct, change comes from the people, the government does not willingly reform itself. bemildred Dec 2012 #177

Seneca Falls and Selma and Stonewall Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #181

So did I; but maybe ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2013 #182