General Discussion

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)

126. ah, so I am entrenched

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 02:03 PM

Dec 2012

because unlike Clinton and Obama, I am not willing to say "Republican economic policies are best". (That is - "tax cuts are good" and "social programs need to be cut&quot .

I claimed that

1. a liberal would not say that
2. saying that is not "compromising"

You claimed that, in spite of this, the fact that the RWNM hated Clinton, proves that he was a liberal.

I grant that he is a liberal on some social issues, although he caved on both DOMA and partial birth abortion IIRC, but he is not a liberal on the economic issues that I care about.

I had that opinion long before I read Dean Baker http://www.commondreams.org/view/2012/12/26-0

"Rubin and his allies control the Democratic Party with their money at the moment. Their financial power will not be easily overcome. However, it is important that people understand that the Rubin-Clinton team is every bit as much about redistributing money from the rest of us to the very rich as the Republicans."

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Serious questions for those who are convinced that Obama, Clinton, and Gore are not liberals. [View all] Buzz Clik Dec 2012 OP

1. Yes, 2. Yes, 3. No, 4. Huh? Scuba Dec 2012 #1

cute, but total fail Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #4

What is your answer to #2, and do you expect that person to run in 2016? nt MH1 Dec 2012 #7

Mine's not a short list, and "ever" is a very long time. Scuba Dec 2012 #24

Sanders is already 71... Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #105

Actually, Senator Sanders calls himself a "Democratic Socialist." eom tledford Dec 2012 #191

Thanks for the correction. Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #201

Bernie is the best!!! I wish we had a hundred of him! n/t bluethruandthru Dec 2012 #153

Elizabeth Warren said EVERYTHING is on the table regarding Iran.oops there goes another graham4anything Dec 2012 #166

Anyone with a good education is or should be flamingdem Dec 2012 #2

Do you really think you answered any of my questions? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #5

Do you really think anyone perceives your questions as anything other than rhetorical? eom tledford Dec 2012 #192

My reply is number 195. Yeah, more than rhetorical. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #195

Oh, I understand what "rhetorical" means and every single response you've made in this thread... tledford Dec 2012 #199

846 posts in 8 years. Awesome. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #200

Huh?a good education equates to liberalism? Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #16

Conservatism is fed by ignorance. The more one is educated, the more one rejects conservatism. Scuba Dec 2012 #26

College educated people tend NOT to vote Republican AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #101

actually, people with less education are more likely to vote democrat. college-educated = HiPointDem Dec 2012 #232

The tendency of people AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #242

in the last election, people with less education were more likely to vote democratic. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #254

That response is just outright bigoted. Skidmore Dec 2012 #190

Here is a quote by a famous liberal President Botany Dec 2012 #3

Alrighty then! Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #6

I see constantly moving to the right as a failure, yes. Fumesucker Dec 2012 #8

Why would anyone think pols behind Nafta and Welfare Reform arent liberals? Report1212 Dec 2012 #9

So it is antithetical to liberalism Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #102

It is antithetical to do so.... FredStembottom Dec 2012 #116

So it is American liberalism to which you refer.... Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #141

I agree with most of what you said but.... FredStembottom Dec 2012 #205

This recovery has been so slow Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #237

Lol. Yeah that's the goal of globalism. Union Scribe Dec 2012 #233

That's how the idea of globalization was sold. Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #238

A lot of people, me included, didnt realize NAFTA would do what it did. Those people were mistaken stevenleser Dec 2012 #260

You need to think about what "self-fulfilling prophecy" means. Bonobo Dec 2012 #10

So ... you have no answers to any of my questions? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #13

If you want a pet monkey, go to ebay. Bonobo Dec 2012 #15

I was asking your opinion. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #17

Read my response. It is an answer to your push-poll type questions. Bonobo Dec 2012 #21

Good one, Bonobo. They forget Lincoln. tblue Dec 2012 #34

My questions were serious, and I gave full context for them. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #42

by the responses you are giving to people's answers and the attitude in which you are giving them liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #170

You would be wrong... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #175

Full context tavalon Dec 2012 #208

You have the ability to read my mind? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #213

The number of responses indicates a strong desire by Duers to show you tavalon Dec 2012 #223

Yet, many thoughtful people gave me serious responses. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #226

Self-fulfilling prophecy is exactly right laundry_queen Dec 2012 #128

Another illustration of this is at the website truebluegreen Dec 2012 #162

I think he was confused by your username Bake Dec 2012 #123

LOl tavalon Dec 2012 #207

+1 Scuba Dec 2012 #27

Not exactly quaker bill Dec 2012 #231

So far, everyone is missing the idea: ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #11

People ARE answering your questions Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #39

LOL! Despite several efforts to derail this conversation, the conversation is happening. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #45

I can practically see you sitting on the edge of your seat, getting more and more frustrated as Marr Dec 2012 #157

Your post is #157, and you were responding to post #11. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #161

I did! My favorite part was where someone thanked you for admitting that Clinton and Gore Marr Dec 2012 #171

Ah. You're just fishing for a response. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #182

Your questions aren't relevant to the position you take that Obama, Clinton tavalon Dec 2012 #209

Sure they are. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #211

I already spoke to this, tavalon Dec 2012 #224

The number of blue dog Democrats in office is at an all time low. JaneyVee Dec 2012 #12

That's interesting. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #14

Well, I think.. ananda Dec 2012 #18

Thank you! Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #20

I think you're missing the OP's point frazzled Dec 2012 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author ywcachieve Dec 2012 #89

Surely you must see what a silly argument that is. Marr Dec 2012 #158

If I thought it was silly I obviously wouldn't have made it frazzled Dec 2012 #168

How does electablity of true liberals in any way support the position that Obama, Clinton tavalon Dec 2012 #210

President Obama is doing what a great leader must do. ywcachieve Dec 2012 #77

Exactly! n/t marew Dec 2012 #178

Bernie Sanders, Kucinich Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #19

Thanks. A follow-up Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #23

"Considering that only a small fraction of the population is liberal..." equals "fail". Scuba Dec 2012 #30

If Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Obama are NOT liberals, then very few Americans ... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #49

The problem with your questions sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #139

"I post a lot on discussion boards with conservatives." tavalon Dec 2012 #216

Don't confuse rhetoric and tribalism Chathamization Dec 2012 #250

Compromising does NOT mean proposing only what you imagine your opponent will accept Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #35

+1 forestpath Dec 2012 #36

+1 leftstreet Dec 2012 #43

+1 djean111 Dec 2012 #52

Health care is a perfect example to use. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #53

Obamacare was orginally introduced by conservatives leftstreet Dec 2012 #69

Republicans first proposed compulsory private insurance in the 1980s Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #75

You put words in my mouth, and I resent that Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #72

That was not my intent. Sorry. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #81

Obama stole his healthcare plan from Romney tavalon Dec 2012 #217

Actually Lydia, That Seems To Be ALL Compromise ProfessorGAC Dec 2012 #67

+1 Poll_Blind Dec 2012 #79

+1 leveymg Dec 2012 #138

Amen to that. nt Nay Dec 2012 #140

My personal experience is something like this. Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #38

Fantastic answer. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #54

You didn't "jump the fence". You stayed where you were while the TeaParty went further right. Scuba Dec 2012 #58

Considering that only a fraction of the population is liberal? tavalon Dec 2012 #212

Discussion over. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #218

Isn't that the first duty of any politician? Getting elected? Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #259

Here Paulie Dec 2012 #22

Thanks. However,... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #28

Yes, as a Minnesotan, I can attest to his being popular among at least two groups of people Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #37

Without a doubt he could have won. Paulie Dec 2012 #40

He was electable, just as Howard Dean was, tavalon Dec 2012 #221

Oh shit! Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #227

I was told on DU that a black man can't become president Enrique Dec 2012 #25

Well, stupid comments are no stranger to DU. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #29

"the Tea Party and their similar stances"?? G_j Dec 2012 #31

Way to avoid the context of my comment. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #41

your "context" is a worn out "meme" G_j Dec 2012 #100

Gratefully, a few people thought otherwise. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #111

Your comparing liberals with the Tea Party is too offensive to bother answering your "questions." forestpath Dec 2012 #33

That's a cop out. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #44

This is true as I related in my post above Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #48

It's clear you wish to move the Overton Window to the right Fumesucker Dec 2012 #50

Your first 3 questions were laughably disingenuous. forestpath Dec 2012 #56

All four questions were dead serious. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #61

He's upset about the Tom Tomorrow tune I posted Ichingcarpenter Dec 2012 #47

The Tom Tomorrow cartoon was outstanding. The reactions to it were stupid. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #59

you lied Ichingcarpenter Dec 2012 #98

One should never compromise when all one has to offer is bullshit. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #108

+1 I'm more than tired of that bullshit Union Scribe Dec 2012 #234

Your bucket. 99Forever Dec 2012 #46

LOL! Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #57

Nor the 30 seconds... 99Forever Dec 2012 #65

But you replied anyway. Why is that? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #68

Why shouldn't I? 99Forever Dec 2012 #78

Good point. We should always blame other people for the time we waste. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #82

You seem well versed in ... 99Forever Dec 2012 #92

Thank you for admitting Obama, Clinton, Gore aren't liberals leftstreet Dec 2012 #51

You misread my question. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #55

No. Your OP assumes they aren't liberals leftstreet Dec 2012 #63

You missed the point entirely. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #70

No I didn't leftstreet Dec 2012 #80

Jesus effin' Christ. I'm not going where you're going. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #84

Temper, temper leftstreet Dec 2012 #91

you won't read it from him Ichingcarpenter Dec 2012 #135

Not used to being challenged? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #181

Dingdingdingdingding, give the man a cigar, we have a winner! eom tledford Dec 2012 #197

My question was a serious one for those who do not think they are liberals. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #180

Excellent point. Marr Dec 2012 #160

Depends. That list includes conservative neoliberals, liberal neoliberals, liberal neoconservatives leveymg Dec 2012 #60

So, you believe that Obama, Gore, and Clinton are liberals. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #64

I don't think we agree on the terms we're using here, so it's hard to agree on your conclusions leveymg Dec 2012 #121

Great leaders may have to negotiate and compromise at times. ywcachieve Dec 2012 #62

+1 Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #71

1: Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders (at the Senatorial level). 2: Elizabeth coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #66

3. Clearly I have no idea what a liberal is because I think Gore, Clinton, and Obama are liberals. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #74

You can use the 'liberal' label all you want, but if you fail to define your terms you're coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #93

I'm not? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #127

OK, I just wanted to be clear. You consider Clinton a 'progressive'. You are coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #176

You haven't read this thread. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #184

If 1/3 of this thread agree with you that Clinton was a 'progressive,' then that provides coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #185

Oh, don't stop now! Please bestow more knowledge on us! Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #187

This message was self-deleted by its author Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #188

it depends on what the definition of "negotiate" is hfojvt Dec 2012 #73

Why do you suppose that the right despises Clinton in spite of his conservative views? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #76

what difference does that make? hfojvt Dec 2012 #97

It does not matter. I form my own opinions independent of the entrenched right or left. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #115

ah, so I am entrenched hfojvt Dec 2012 #126

You are operating under the either/or fallacy, or false dichotomy: janx Dec 2012 #94

ah, sure, I am confused hfojvt Dec 2012 #99

Where are you getting that information? janx Dec 2012 #106

we are supposed to be talking about politics hfojvt Dec 2012 #142

+1 Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #109

Yay, championing capitulation and mediocrity! whatchamacallit Dec 2012 #83

Ok. Let's start there. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #86

No, but Medicare for All would be way better. Scuba Dec 2012 #169

I would say that LBJ, Truman & FDR were the last left-leaning presidents.... dmosh42 Dec 2012 #85

Not even Carter? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #87

Not sure you will get what you are looking for here. aandegoons Dec 2012 #88

sigh. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #90

Neoliberals = liberals, social democrats = liberals, but neoliberals =/= socials democrats. PETRUS Dec 2012 #95

Neoliberalism is an economic system AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #104

Yes, and I think that's where the dispute lies. PETRUS Dec 2012 #122

I'll give this a stab wyldwolf Dec 2012 #96

Whoa!! janx Dec 2012 #103

+1/2. That is a damned fine answer. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #107

Given your post AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #110

given your post wyldwolf Dec 2012 #112

The word "Purist" AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #204

What dictionary did you pull THAT out of? LOL wyldwolf Dec 2012 #236

It's called "Dog whistle politics" AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #243

And you assigned 'purist' as one to fit your needs wyldwolf Dec 2012 #253

"Don't be silly. The purist left could never organize the way the Tea Party has." Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #114

Oh lookie... 99Forever Dec 2012 #118

oh lookie... wyldwolf Dec 2012 #120

Nothing of value.. 99Forever Dec 2012 #130

Plenty. wyldwolf Dec 2012 #131

There were insults in the OP? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #129

I'll elaborate wyldwolf Dec 2012 #132

as for your "loaded" questions, #2 - few thought obama was electable til he ran nt msongs Dec 2012 #113

Agreed. Those of us who worked our asses off for Obama were pleasantly surprised. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #117

I stopped at Sanders and Warren so as not to make a long list. There are some coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #119

I'd add Russ Feingold (n/t) thesquanderer Dec 2012 #124

Feingold might just be the strongest of all the possibilities, although he coalition_unwilling Dec 2012 #174

I have relatives from Kentucky who hate him nolabels Dec 2012 #136

They are all Corporatists. RevStPatrick Dec 2012 #125

ROFL MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #133

wink wink nudge nudge Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #137

Well, what is "truly liberal"? CitizenK9 Dec 2012 #134

1) Obama the campaigner NCTraveler Dec 2012 #143

Obama the campaigner, but not the real person. Then who? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #145

Every time someone answers your questions in this thread.... NCTraveler Dec 2012 #146

But you did not answer the question. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #151

Okay. LWolf Dec 2012 #144

They are social liberals Dirty Socialist Dec 2012 #147

I would agree. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #148

DU is the wrong place to ask this question SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #149

You believe that no Democrats are liberal. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #152

You really expect the establishment to be liberal? AgainsttheCrown Dec 2012 #150

Thanks. That was an excellent and thoughtful reply. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #154

Sherrod Brown is liberal Dirty Socialist Dec 2012 #155

Thanks, and good point about the Tea Party. Clarification: Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #163

It's a big mistake to conflate the left with the tea baggers RainDog Dec 2012 #156

Well.... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #164

Have you looked at studies about wealth distribution? RainDog Dec 2012 #172

I do not support the Tea Party's position at all. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #183

I was responding to your attempts at false equivalency RainDog Dec 2012 #186

Teabaggers have no 'data' to back anything up AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #244

This is a problem with posting at DU. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #246

So, the wide majority of teabaggers are highly intelligent informed voters? AgingAmerican Dec 2012 #249

My take. creon Dec 2012 #159

Great points. Thanks. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #165

What do 1, 2, 3, and 4 have to do with Obama, Clinton, and Gore not being retread Dec 2012 #167

I would love to answer your question, ... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #179

It's a pretty simple question Union Scribe Dec 2012 #235

It isn't a question at all. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #240

What the hell. I have 10 minutes to kill. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #239

I'd pose the above questions to losers like Jill Stein, Roseanne Barr, and Rocky Anderson. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #173

+1 Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #177

When you ask about ISSUES rather than candidates, the Green etc. candidates do well Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #245

I agree. Their biggest mistake is trying to highjack the Democratic Party.... Tarheel_Dem Dec 2012 #258

There is a progressive caucus. MrSlayer Dec 2012 #189

Kucinich. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #193

Indeed. MrSlayer Dec 2012 #198

You just explained the problem in a nutshell Oilwellian Dec 2012 #202

It is also possible... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #203

Protecting the interests of ordinary people over the interests of the Wall Street pirates is Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #214

LOL. Yes, they do. Millennials are more liberal than those who came of age during Ronnie Raygun RainDog Dec 2012 #228

In other words, Clinton is the first Dem president you observed closely Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #247

The first Dem presidential candidate I observed closely was Humphrey. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #248

Yes I can name liberals. mmonk Dec 2012 #194

Well, according to the same group that is oh-so-worried about Obama and Clinton... Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #196

Gore was a founding member of the DLC and supported the Contras and Reagan's military buildup Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #215

Were you posting here in 2000? Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #219

NOBODY was posting here in 2000; DU wasn't started till 2001 Lydia Leftcoast Dec 2012 #241

Wow, four strawman, er, five strawman questions tavalon Dec 2012 #206

Yeah. You have repeated this previously on this thread. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #220

I post as I read through tavalon Dec 2012 #222

Gawd. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #225

I have thought about this tavalon Dec 2012 #230

Xavier Becerra. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #229

None of those questions have anything to do with being convinced djean111 Dec 2012 #251

My question was serious, and many took it seriously and responded. Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #256

all three are liberals madrchsod Dec 2012 #252

Thanks! Buzz Clik Dec 2012 #257

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #255