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NNadir

(38,259 posts)
47. The story of Kekule's "dream," has inspired a lot of psychological speculations on scientific creativity.
Mon Dec 15, 2025, 08:13 PM
Dec 2025

Whether they're valid is not for me to say, but I do recall that when I faced very challenging problems in higher math, sometimes I'd fall asleep after not knowing what to do, and woke up with the solution on my fingertips. That also happened in my laboratory career.

As for your experience of organic chemistry, you remember the beautiful part, the story of the dream. Almost every organic chemistry student has heard it.

It may be apocryphal; we'll never know:

It appears he told the story long after actually publishing his theory on benzene, which was questioned on the basis of the absence of some isomers. For example, were he correct about stationary double bonds, there would be two isomers of every ortho (1,2 substituted) compound, one where the substituents were on the same double bond, and one where they were on adjacent double bonds.

He modified his theory to allow for interconversion of the bonds; when I was a kid that's what I believed, that there were stable bonds that moved. I was, of course, entirely wrong but as a kid there was no one to tell me. I was just looking at the pictures. Some people still write aromatic structures showing localized double bonds..

It turns out that the "pi" bonds are delocalized, the orbitals are "smeared" over and under the plane of the molecule. This happens whenever there are 4n+2 electrons in a ring, where n is 0, 1, 2, 3... We call this "aromatic bonding" Conversely if there are 4n electrons in a ring, the system is "antiaromatic" and is destabilized. This is why a three membered ring, strained as it is, with a single double bond is relatively stable, and a four membered ring with two double bonds is very unstable and transitory.

Kekule's greatest contribution was to connect chemistry and structure. It's obvious now, but in his time, the mid 19th century it wasn't obvious at all. He developed the theory of valence as part of this theory.

(I'm sure you wanted an organic chemistry lesson late in life; it's never too late.)

As for your real life, I recall very well being a first time parent - I was in my early 40's, my wife entering her thirties. We were filled with questions and excitement. We'd been married nine years, and for the first time we were in a position to be parents. It turns out that for all the anticipation and sought advice, my son's birth was very problematic; I worried I would lose my wife, and my son was born with a birth defect that might have been very serious, but happily he missed the possible worst. We were excited, of course, to be parents, but terrified that something major might be wrong, even that either the baby or my wife wouldn't make it. (He's fine today; he just turned 30 and works in academia, his "defect" proved to be merely cosmetic. We of course love him very much, as does, it appears, his latest girlfriend.)

My wife is fine as well. I get to die first, which makes me happy.

I, and to a lesser extent my wife, was terrified of having a second child, but my wife talked me into it because she felt my son needed a sibling. I was against it at first, but on reflection; my second son's birth actually brought great joy into our house between the brothers and their parents. Although they live far apart, they are very close to one another. I absolutely love eavesdropping on their conversations when they're together; they are very smart men. I can't wait for Christmas, when the little guy will come home.

I very much appreciate the care and concern of medical professionals, and I'm pleased to learn you enjoyed your career. You probably did better getting that C in organic chemistry. You didn't fail, and you remembered the beautiful part, Kekule and his dream.

Forget about the soap, and be glad you learned not to do what I did, breathe in dangerous chemicals. I am ashamed to say I know the smell of phosgene very well. If I'd been more careful and safety oriented, I wouldn't know that.







Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

It's okay! We all have something that we fell for, or had pushed at us. Maru Kitteh Dec 2025 #1
In our defense UpInArms Dec 2025 #2
For those either not familiar with Atlas Shrugged, or it's 'been a while', I offer an abridged version. Abolishinist Dec 2025 #3
Oh man! I saw this here once before and regretted not knowing the source. Do you know it? NNadir Dec 2025 #4
I've posted it here before, Abolishinist Dec 2025 #14
You are brilliant. mr715 Dec 2025 #8
I wish I could give the author proper credit, but I copied this Abolishinist Dec 2025 #16
I was confused and disturbed by Atlas Shrugged when I was young. dgauss Dec 2025 #26
It's as I remembered "Atlas Shrugged". Hugin Dec 2025 #44
So, your Organic Chemistry book... ret5hd Dec 2025 #5
I'm happy to say, that to my knowledge, there is only one Ayn Rand book on these old shelves. NNadir Dec 2025 #7
I have a lot of Ayn Rand... mr715 Dec 2025 #6
That's rich: "Philosophical Biohazard." Mind if I steal it if I ever find myself discussing Ayn Rand again? NNadir Dec 2025 #9
Please share. mr715 Dec 2025 #12
On 'Atlas Shrugged' RetiredParatrooper Dec 2025 #34
Dorothy Parker on 'Atlas Shrugged' RetiredParatrooper Dec 2025 #35
I hope that you got rid of it TexasTowelie Dec 2025 #10
Well, I don't know. Maybe I should keep it around to remind myself that I can be stupid. NNadir Dec 2025 #11
Nah- sometimes burning a book actually can be recommended biophile Dec 2025 #15
Morrison and Boyd's Organic Chemistry was the one I used. harumph Dec 2025 #13
I gave a copy, an earlier edition to a guy who worked for me. I actually have several... NNadir Dec 2025 #19
Nature of the Chemical Bond by Linus Pauling harumph Dec 2025 #36
I'm starting the annual book shelves cleaning this week malaise Dec 2025 #17
One's political philosophy should result from intellectual inquiry, not blind faith. snot Dec 2025 #18
I rather like your perspective, more generous to me than I am to myself. In fact... NNadir Dec 2025 #23
There still are powerful people who embrace her philosophy. snot Dec 2025 #46
It sounds like you grew out of it in high school. mjvpi Dec 2025 #20
I too read Ayn Rand's books as a youth and admired them. Morbius Dec 2025 #21
It's as if she took communism Turbineguy Dec 2025 #24
This message was self-deleted by its author jfz9580m Dec 2025 #37
I recall very well being offended by that billboard remark. NNadir Dec 2025 #41
My take was that the right picked up Rand as a reaction to all of the era of socialist writers that preceded her. Hugin Dec 2025 #45
Oh, gawd - Morrison and Boyd! The stuff of my nightmares. 3catwoman3 Dec 2025 #22
I think organic chemistry is generally taught badly, probably for historical reasons. NNadir Dec 2025 #28
The 3 things I remember from that long ago course are... 3catwoman3 Dec 2025 #32
Not to butt in jfz9580m Dec 2025 #43
The story of Kekule's "dream," has inspired a lot of psychological speculations on scientific creativity. NNadir Dec 2025 #47
Organic chem wherein, my cousin told me EverHopeful Dec 2025 #33
A long-lost ending of 'Atlas Shrugged' RetiredParatrooper Dec 2025 #25
Wow! Someone got to the end without falling asleep. Impressive. (Pretty funny ersatz ending, I think.) NNadir Dec 2025 #31
I have retained a number of stupid things from my stupid youth. One *not* stupid thing that I kept Ocelot II Dec 2025 #27
I feel your pain. I really do. I suspect most of us do. NNadir Dec 2025 #30
i'll admit to a youthful flirtation with ayn rand rampartd Dec 2025 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author jfz9580m Dec 2025 #38
It's Eleanor Roosevelt, who I consider the greatest Democrat of the 20th century. NNadir Dec 2025 #40
I really should read more about her jfz9580m Dec 2025 #42
Everyone should have read them when a teen HAB911 Dec 2025 #39
I read both The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged... Chemical Bill Dec 2025 #48
And I read Morrison and Boyd in college. Chemical Bill Dec 2025 #49
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