General Discussion

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)

161. There is a fundamental misunderstanding in some people's heads about rights..

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:05 PM

Dec 2012

As though they didn't exist before the bill of rights.

I guess schools don't teach the Enlightenment these days. No Locke, Rousseau, or even Hobbes.

No, all one has to do is read the preamble to the Bill of Rights to disabuse themselves of that notion:

[div class='excerpt']The Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution.

Abuse of whose powers? The government. Declaratory and restrictive clauses against whom? The government.

The Bill of Rights is not a "the people can-" document; it's a "the government can't" document.

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former Chief Justice Burger - individual right to bear arms was �one of the greatest pieces of [View all] farminator3000 Dec 2012 OP

good read Skittles Dec 2012 #1

All you have to do is read what the framers had in mind.... Historic NY Dec 2012 #2

Personally, the existence of inherent countries, laws, and rights ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #3

"my subjective point of view' is redundant. nt laundry_queen Dec 2012 #14

I agree, but I was trying to make a point. nt ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #68

Of course it's a fraud. At the time the Constitution was written, we had no standing army and the world wide wally Dec 2012 #4

I am more than willing to give them the right to bear arms......... 4bucksagallon Dec 2012 #5

So the first amendment will only apply to material produced on printing presses? former9thward Dec 2012 #12

Excellent false equivalency Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #24

Except you never answered the question. former9thward Dec 2012 #25

You never asked me the question Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #27

If you answer No then consistent logic is your enemy. former9thward Dec 2012 #28

Ahh yes, the gun nut alcohol false equivalency Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #29

You love using the words "false equivalency". former9thward Dec 2012 #34

I'll wait for the translation Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #35

This is a discussion board. former9thward Dec 2012 #36

I'll defer to you on empty heads Floyd_Gondolli Dec 2012 #37

then why are you talking about the 1st amendment? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #49

The poster I was replying to wants the 2nd A limited former9thward Dec 2012 #55

um farminator3000 Dec 2012 #50

You are criticizing me on grammar? Please check the grammar in your post. former9thward Dec 2012 #52

"...foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...." lastlib Dec 2012 #32

I suggest you go to a law school. former9thward Dec 2012 #33

um farminator3000 Dec 2012 #53

A second post by you I can't understand. former9thward Dec 2012 #56

Apparently, Chief Justice Burger didn't know how to read the Constitution either Hugabear Dec 2012 #96

Support for a RWer on DU. former9thward Dec 2012 #109

There's really no need to be a jackass about it. lastlib Dec 2012 #145

LOL. No. The second amendment grants NO authority what so ever. beevul Dec 2012 #125

what logic? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #47

There was none. former9thward Dec 2012 #51

you are correct. your question was not logical farminator3000 Dec 2012 #64

Is it inconsistent, though? theKed Dec 2012 #124

Not sure I follow. former9thward Dec 2012 #131

My point was theKed Dec 2012 #140

Fine. former9thward Dec 2012 #148

Goal post moving bongbong Dec 2012 #154

It likely is theKed Dec 2012 #160

Did you respond to the right post? bongbong Dec 2012 #163

Juvenile name calling. former9thward Dec 2012 #165

BWAHAHAHA bongbong Dec 2012 #168

How many people have cars killed shintao Dec 2012 #60

Yes sellitman Dec 2012 #155

Stop With The Cars otohara Dec 2012 #182

Why should the first, it never was that limited. A Simple Game Dec 2012 #39

Never that limited? former9thward Dec 2012 #41

limit yourself, please farminator3000 Dec 2012 #57

A third post with sentence framents. former9thward Dec 2012 #58

Well good for Lawrence Tribe. We could get into a quote war but A Simple Game Dec 2012 #75

This was the quote I replied to: former9thward Dec 2012 #107

nice farminator3000 Dec 2012 #54

who the hell mentioned the 1st amendment? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #46

So you are equating the right to call someone an asshole SomethingFishy Dec 2012 #61

well said farminator3000 Dec 2012 #87

I am not a lunatic. former9thward Dec 2012 #187

The First Amendment is limited all the time by the government. TSBprm6 Dec 2012 #181

hey! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #40

LOL! No problem I have been enjoying the discussion. 4bucksagallon Dec 2012 #98

shrill is not the word farminator3000 Dec 2012 #99

Most of my guns are registered except for the one's that I bought before registration was required.. 4bucksagallon Dec 2012 #100

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #101

Give? Abq_Sarah Dec 2012 #133

There is a fundamental misunderstanding in some people's heads about rights.. X_Digger Dec 2012 #161

no, just in yours farminator3000 Dec 2012 #162

Still sore that you flubbed the laws about licensing and concealed carry? Hehe X_Digger Dec 2012 #167

not sore in the least. i have stuffed your BS like 2 dozen times now give up farminator3000 Dec 2012 #192

When someone claims that *any* right is unlimited, you be sure to pipe up, ya? X_Digger Dec 2012 #194

A majority of today's arms, like handguns or "assault weapons" are "in common use, for lawful purpos farminator3000 Dec 2012 #195

A majority of "assault weapons" aren't used to "assault" anyone. Duh. X_Digger Dec 2012 #196

piss off farminator3000 Dec 2012 #197

numbers, slappy, let's see some numbers farminator3000 Dec 2012 #199

FBI's UCR + DOJ report on the effectiveness of the ban.. X_Digger Dec 2012 #200

what the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #204

In common use -- selling like hotcakes.. for lawful purposes -- not used in crime very much. X_Digger Dec 2012 #207

ever hear of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness? what'd ya miss 2nd grade? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #198

Weak sauce, even for you. "commies"?!? LOL! X_Digger Dec 2012 #201

my claim is you are full of crap! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #202

Then back up your claims with data.. such as my response above. X_Digger Dec 2012 #203

you are the data, i claim you a fool! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #205

My goodness, maybe you should switch to decaf. n/t X_Digger Dec 2012 #208

You found one of the rabid NRA-ers here on DU bongbong Dec 2012 #218

you think "assault weapons" are cool, in some kind of perverse, pseudo rambo way. i do not farminator3000 Dec 2012 #206

Nobody ever *gave* me a right to do or have anything- they predate the constitution. X_Digger Dec 2012 #209

so you aren't a member of society or a citizen of the US. that is good news! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #210

When you're in a hole, the first tip is to stop digging. X_Digger Dec 2012 #212

dig this farminator3000 Dec 2012 #213

So? It's an accurate statement. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #215

... and? Are you just into repetition now? n/t X_Digger Dec 2012 #217

A few hundred years ago, the term "right to bear arms" meant the right to carry your family ladjf Dec 2012 #6

but now the family all has the same coat farminator3000 Dec 2012 #8

I presume that "black and shiny" is a gun. ladjf Dec 2012 #31

yes farminator3000 Dec 2012 #38

No. nt ladjf Dec 2012 #93

a song about a school shooting in 1979 farminator3000 Dec 2012 #94

and now... farminator3000 Dec 2012 #7

Mmmmm, Burger Capt. Obvious Dec 2012 #9

awfully quiet in this thread farminator3000 Dec 2012 #10

Are you going to agree with Burger's decisons? former9thward Dec 2012 #13

I have no idea what you are even talking about. His quote is not cherry picked in any way. duffyduff Dec 2012 #16

Non-responsive to my questions. former9thward Dec 2012 #18

i said farminator3000 Dec 2012 #43

It certainly *was* cherry-picked. Read his homophobic screed in Bowers v. Hardwick: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #19

it wasn't a decision farminator3000 Dec 2012 #44

*You* offered him up as an authority figure, whose opinion we should take note of. friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #67

nope. i showed a quote and implied that i agree. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #70

"george bush the 1st cut up is nra card, too. you should, too." Wow, you really *are* new here... friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #86

Just look at Burger's own words from your referenced source: AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #66

you read it! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #71

i didn't agree with anything. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #42

It is not going to be "fixed". former9thward Dec 2012 #48

are you in charge? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #59

No I am not in charge unfortunately. former9thward Dec 2012 #62

correct farminator3000 Dec 2012 #80

From your link... rrneck Dec 2012 #11

You admire Chief Justice Burger? hack89 Dec 2012 #15

The answer to that (if there *is* one) will be most interesting... friendly_iconoclast Dec 2012 #17

You can certainly be right about one topic, and wrong about another. Lex Dec 2012 #20

He is consistent on restraining civil liberties hack89 Dec 2012 #21

Like these? Lex Dec 2012 #22

Ok - so he is wildly inconsistent. nt hack89 Dec 2012 #23

If you've studied Constitutional Law you'd know that Lex Dec 2012 #26

what he/she said is very true! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #97

Yes, but if your argument is an "appeal to authority" argument hughee99 Dec 2012 #30

no. i agree with one opinion of his from an interview farminator3000 Dec 2012 #45

What an infantile statement... Marengo Dec 2012 #103

dissection- farminator3000 Dec 2012 #105

K&R Whovian Dec 2012 #63

Can we have a little honesty here? AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #65

certainly! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #69

Who is saying ""Until that time (Heller), legal precedent and conventional wisdom held that the AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #72

TWO sources enough? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #74

Oh, the same Burger who ruled that sodomy laws were constitutional? X_Digger Dec 2012 #73

i don't recall mentioning sodomy farminator3000 Dec 2012 #77

It demonstrates that he's not a fan of rights, generally. X_Digger Dec 2012 #79

not really. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #81

Go read some of his opinions if you get the chance.. X_Digger Dec 2012 #82

sorry if i offended you farminator3000 Dec 2012 #83

Nah, not offended.. tickled a bit, honestly. X_Digger Dec 2012 #84

so you are tickled by sodomy. great farminator3000 Dec 2012 #85

Tickled that you're quoting Burger, Nixon's appointee.. X_Digger Dec 2012 #88

so you are pro death penalty? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #89

Err.. no, I'm against it.. but your boy Burger? Is responsible for its reinstatement. X_Digger Dec 2012 #90

great. i'm for it, and i don't give a shit what Burger thinks about it. back to the question- farminator3000 Dec 2012 #91

Unintentional quote of the night.. X_Digger Dec 2012 #92

it was intentional! i don't care what you think about guns your info is 125 years old farminator3000 Dec 2012 #95

No right is unlimited. Not the first, the second, the fourth, the fifth.. X_Digger Dec 2012 #104

thanks for agreeing farminator3000 Dec 2012 #106

I read law dictionaries. There is a distinct difference between a privilege and a right. X_Digger Dec 2012 #108

what's the difference between a gun and a car? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #110

Generally, one has to be licensed to carry outside one's home.. X_Digger Dec 2012 #111

maybe generally is the problem farminator3000 Dec 2012 #112

License to own, not operate/carry.. did you miss that? X_Digger Dec 2012 #113

no. i said the gun laws are insane, look at the link farminator3000 Dec 2012 #114

You're babbling. X_Digger Dec 2012 #116

so far you got right/privilege AND car/gun AND license/permit WRONG! look here! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #117

Umm.. you do not need a permit to carry outside your home in Alaska, Arizona, Vermont, and Wyoming. X_Digger Dec 2012 #118

you need a clue farminator3000 Dec 2012 #120

If I do need a clue, I know who NOT to call. n/t X_Digger Dec 2012 #121

certainly don't look in the mirror.. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #123

Quoted for posterity. beevul Dec 2012 #126

you forgot a part of my quote there, slappy farminator3000 Dec 2012 #127

i would have quoted it, if... beevul Dec 2012 #128

quote this farminator3000 Dec 2012 #129

Ohhh the mulford act? beevul Dec 2012 #132

no, the 2ND AMENDMENT STOP WASTING MY TIME! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #149

I agree with Chief Justice Burger. I always underthematrix Dec 2012 #76

you are not wrong farminator3000 Dec 2012 #78

Is there any right that isn't limited by the extent to which it damages the rights of others? patrice Dec 2012 #102

the right to breathe? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #115

Alas, poor Burger put his money on the wrong horse. The States Rights interpretation lost big. hansberrym Dec 2012 #119

so will you farminator3000 Dec 2012 #122

Well that settles it, if Reagun thought it a good idea, then it must have been a good idea. n/t hansberrym Dec 2012 #135

maybe being shot gives you a more vivid look at why guns are bad? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #139

"weight of academic opinion" Major Nikon Dec 2012 #130

Just sayin that Posner lost 9-0 in the Supreme Court. hansberrym Dec 2012 #134

The government's case was a loser because the court was stacked with RW ideologues Major Nikon Dec 2012 #136

Who stacked the courts in the 1800s? hansberrym Dec 2012 #137

This message was self-deleted by its author Major Nikon Dec 2012 #142

YOU lost in the supreme court, Mr. Not-so-Smartypants! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #150

So you do remember your post #95, now all you have to do is locate that gun lobby hansberrym Dec 2012 #164

do you read? check post 147. you guys are shooting yourselves in the feet farminator3000 Dec 2012 #170

Can you read? None of what you have cut and pasted repeatedly hansberrym Dec 2012 #171

if you can't get it in three tries just give up farminator3000 Dec 2012 #173

Physician heal thyself. hansberrym Dec 2012 #174

take two minutes to read this, and don't come back. ever. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #176

You remembered again! While you're lucid, can you tell hansberrym Dec 2012 #179

yep farminator3000 Dec 2012 #180

"it doesn't. that is his view." Wow, I did catch you in a momoment of clarity, so hopefully hansberrym Dec 2012 #183

go away, you have lost 3 times already shut up you aren't even reading this you robot later dud farminator3000 Dec 2012 #184

What a pity the moment has passed, your thinking is once again clouded by your hatred of the NRA hansberrym Dec 2012 #185

what a pity your nasty boss embarassed us all in front of the entire world at the UN meeting farminator3000 Dec 2012 #186

Still no luck, eh? Guess you'll be needing more than 10 minutes afterall ... hansberrym Dec 2012 #188

you are a fool. why am i calling an actual robot a fool? i don't know,really farminator3000 Dec 2012 #190

Because you are unable to back your claims, foot stomping and foolishness are all you can offer. n/t hansberrym Dec 2012 #219

The OP is a straw man argument, itself knowingly propped up by the straw man left to us by Burger. hansberrym Dec 2012 #138

you become a straw man as soon as you type those words, and the gun lobby is sound asleep farminator3000 Dec 2012 #141

What sorcery is this? hansberrym Dec 2012 #143

the good kind. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #144

The lame kind is more like it. It has been quite a bit longer than 10 minutes, and still no hansberrym Dec 2012 #146

i have an actual job other than posting nonsense on the internet farminator3000 Dec 2012 #147

OIC, so when you are not posting nonsense on the internet, you are working... hansberrym Dec 2012 #151

it's better than having a job posting nonsense, I'd hazard a guess... farminator3000 Dec 2012 #153

How does any of those quotes support the notion that the gun lobby hansberrym Dec 2012 #166

are a-holes? well, board member the Nuge said so. period. farminator3000 Dec 2012 #172

Are you as good at the former as you are at the latter? N/T beevul Dec 2012 #157

BUZZ OFF BEEVUL! i'm better than you at BOTH! farminator3000 Dec 2012 #158

Clearly. N/T beevul Dec 2012 #159

The American Revolution Is A Living Process. CommonSense4CG.com Dec 2012 #152

and now it WILL be televised... farminator3000 Dec 2012 #156

The Music Man will be on TV, when? hansberrym Dec 2012 #169

did you edit that to NOT make sense? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #175

Yes, but frankly I am surprised that you noticed. n/t hansberrym Dec 2012 #177

you must really like this thread, thanks for all the input farminator3000 Dec 2012 #178

He's right. I think most people would ecstatic Dec 2012 #189

the fraud is only 35 years old, really... farminator3000 Dec 2012 #191

somewhere between 12-15 NRA drones taken out on this thread, i'd say farminator3000 Dec 2012 #193

hmmm stklurker Dec 2012 #211

where, exactly? and why should i even try to be polite? farminator3000 Dec 2012 #214

.... stklurker Dec 2012 #216

i said where slappy farminator3000 Dec 2012 #220