General Discussion

Sekhmets Daughter

(7,515 posts)

10. I think the problems arise

Fri Dec 28, 2012, 07:15 PM

Dec 2012

when the criticism is coupled with threats. I've read too many posts saying "I'll never vote for ________ again, if he/she does this or that" The latest threats have been the insistence that progressives will abandon the party if the Chained CPI goes into effect. President Obama has made numerous decisions of which I don't approve, but I know, with every fiber of my being, that at his most moderate self he is 100 times better than any choice offered up by the GOP. I have no problem with people criticizing his actions. I think we should speak out, write to him, our congress critters, our local newspapers and voice those criticism in any forum to which we have access. But taking the position that you will not support a particular Democratic candidate seems more that a bit self-defeating to me. Every time republicans have won a big election, the Democrats have moved to the right.... If Democrats continue to win national elections the GOP will have no choice, the Tea Party notwithstanding, but to move to the left. If Democrats lose, particularly because too many sit out an election or vote for a third party, republicans will continue to move rightward. How does that benefit anyone?

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Judged now by loyalty to a political leader? No disagreement accepted. [View all] madfloridian Dec 2012 OP

I want to make it clear....hubby and I worked for, donated to, and voted for Obama madfloridian Dec 2012 #1

there is nothing wrong with that arely staircase Dec 2012 #12

Then there needs to be differentiation included. madfloridian Dec 2012 #13

i certainly try to differentiate arely staircase Dec 2012 #48

Yes, that goes beyond civility. madfloridian Dec 2012 #55

A person who claims to be a Democrat, runs for office as a Democrat, and then betrays JDPriestly Dec 2012 #106

see that is why i can't take you seriously arely staircase Dec 2012 #115

+1 SunSeeker Dec 2012 #129

And I would suggest ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2012 #134

"the exemptions part of the proposal" basically and drastically changes the intent and the JDPriestly Dec 2012 #143

If a Democrat does it, then it's OK MannyGoldstein Dec 2012 #141

The tone of the two statements may be different iemitsu Dec 2012 #62

one may either make his case by lashing out out emotionally arely staircase Dec 2012 #68

you're just debating manners, the message is the same. at some point, manners fail. HiPointDem Dec 2012 #87

manners are good arely staircase Dec 2012 #116

I think group three is the most sane of all tavalon Dec 2012 #103

And another goal very necessary. Fund public schools, stop taking resources from them madfloridian Dec 2012 #105

and lots of it liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #107

i am a public school teacher arely staircase Dec 2012 #117

Recommend....thoughtful with a perspective that many of us here for long time can much appreciate! KoKo Dec 2012 #167

What do you mean by "strengthen . . . the social safety net." JDPriestly Dec 2012 #108

tax the wealthy to pay for it arely staircase Dec 2012 #118

I too choose door number 3. iemitsu Dec 2012 #110

hang on now, limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #67

yeah, hyberbolic/strawman posts like that are probably going to get some pushback arely staircase Dec 2012 #69

I rather tend to disagree with what you just said limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #72

the whole "sellout" business in hyperbolic arely staircase Dec 2012 #74

He turned from a common man into a millionaire on the basis because of his role in government limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #76

He has done what it takes to stay in office, where he has been able to pass progressive legislation. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #133

The word that was gratuitous was "strawman." And it was one you used. Demit Dec 2012 #137

speak for yourself. i think obama is an awesome president! arely staircase Dec 2012 #139

I think you'd better refresh your understanding of the concept of strawman. Demit Dec 2012 #144

reality creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #97

The money for Social Security is in the Social Security trust fund. It is there. It will be enough JDPriestly Dec 2012 #111

I agree with you about cutting the military creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #148

There is money that could be spent on for WPA program. There is plenty of money sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #112

There isn't enough money there to cover the deficit creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #149

And what does that have to do with the SS fund? sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #151

Why ask me? creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #157

The deficit is the least of our problems. We need to kick-start the economy. That may increase the rhett o rick Dec 2012 #162

Increase the deficit how much? creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #174

So what's the alternative? The Republican plan of austerity? Is that what you recommend? rhett o rick Dec 2012 #201

The deficits now is a big stimulus package creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #203

Crazy like a fox Chathamization Dec 2012 #220

The federal government can do it; after all, it by definition can't go broke duffyduff Dec 2012 #147

It can turn into Greece creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #156

Yes, and it is on its way to doing that as our elected officials push the same sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #171

Austerity is the certain result creeksneakers2 Dec 2012 #175

Also, I would NEVER denigrate the president or his policies in a discussion with a Repuke Doctor_J Dec 2012 #125

Hail Victory and all that. kenny blankenship Dec 2012 #2

It's interesting to see DU fall into the same trap T Roosevelt Dec 2012 #3

That rewrite was one of my last posts... madfloridian Dec 2012 #4

I have to disagree. JoePhilly Dec 2012 #8

You are wrong. He DID put it on the table. From the WH transcript: madfloridian Dec 2012 #11

First, re-read the second paragraph. Boehner included it in his proposal, Obama JoePhilly Dec 2012 #20

He DID put it on the table. Denial doesn't help. madfloridian Dec 2012 #22

I thought he put it on the table when he created the Debt Commission ... or at least during the LAST JoePhilly Dec 2012 #24

Why is that? madfloridian Dec 2012 #27

He just did it a week and a half ago. Look up the press briefing. cui bono Dec 2012 #29

Yes, he did it then, too. Marr Dec 2012 #60

If he did it "then", why are folks screaming that he just did it now. JoePhilly Dec 2012 #73

You're claiming he never made a similar offer during the debt ceiling "crisis"? Marr Dec 2012 #109

This is the problem. People keep making excuses for Obama, or limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #61

That was damning with faint praise tavalon Dec 2012 #104

The poster's stance is the Presidents are omnipotent (except when that isn't convenient) TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #51

Yes, mad is right. PBO DID put SS on the table as I mentioned to you in another thread. cui bono Dec 2012 #21

If I let you bid on my special edition Babe ruth rookie card, does that mean I actually want you to JoePhilly Dec 2012 #26

Yes, you WILL be hearing that refrain...again and again. madfloridian Dec 2012 #30

Probably because its not going to happen. JoePhilly Dec 2012 #37

That isn't a good analogy. cui bono Dec 2012 #32

Your first point is wrong. JoePhilly Dec 2012 #36

And what kind of credibility does Boehner have? cui bono Dec 2012 #41

So why are you taking bids on your special Babe Ruth Rookie card? bahrbearian Dec 2012 #45

Those who said this were correct; Obama DID offer that deal Demo_Chris Dec 2012 #64

I have to disagree, It wasn't a prediction, it was the FACT that he offered it Autumn Dec 2012 #65

hickup dupe L0oniX Dec 2012 #35

Ever try to criticize someone for being into American Idol? L0oniX Dec 2012 #39

I agree. Some of us older folks understand that this kind of group think roguevalley Dec 2012 #47

I like your post. madfloridian Dec 2012 #94

I hear you, Madfloridian. I know people who will die because of cuts. Somehow roguevalley Dec 2012 #98

Well said, thank you. Puzzledtraveller Dec 2012 #185

corporatizing public schools is an abomination NO DEMOCRAT should support...period nt msongs Dec 2012 #5

I agree, but words are wasted now. madfloridian Dec 2012 #7

I asked my republican Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #14

Yes, we should. Thanks. madfloridian Dec 2012 #23

If we don't push from the Left, the only pushing will be from the Right. tblue Dec 2012 #6

That's what is happening. madfloridian Dec 2012 #17

Louder, no. Grossly overfunded, yes. BlueNoteSpecial Dec 2012 #33

Good point. madfloridian Dec 2012 #44

I remember 1968, 1980 and 2000. Fracture means losing. Whiners wanting too much normally do too graham4anything Dec 2012 #9

Whiners like those who support public education? Whiners like the elderly? madfloridian Dec 2012 #18

I disagree and your use of the term whiners shows you aren't listening. cui bono Dec 2012 #25

Well said. AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2012 #28

if you don't win, you lose. 2000 whiners voted for Ralph Nader who directly caused the loss graham4anything Dec 2012 #34

More Republicans than Democrats voted for Nader in NH in 2000 Fumesucker Dec 2012 #70

Nader was behind the biggest voter stay home drive. 2000 had the least amount of voters graham4anything Dec 2012 #80

And six percent of Democrats voted for Bush Fumesucker Dec 2012 #81

one good thing about Nader-He insured never will a 3rd party be more than a gnat graham4anything Dec 2012 #114

.... madfloridian Dec 2012 #43

I think the problems arise Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #10

The problems arise at the slightest hint.... madfloridian Dec 2012 #15

I haven't seen much fear of criticism here.... Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #38

Not fear of criticism... madfloridian Dec 2012 #42

given that we are a mixture of everyone from obscenely wealthy to peopl living in roguevalley Dec 2012 #52

++++++++ Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #75

:D roguevalley Dec 2012 #78

I had a nice reply typed to you last night Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #89

I would love that, Blue. Hugs, honey. Me- trying to find someone to clear my roof. :D roguevalley Dec 2012 #93

So much for tolerance. Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #53

I love your handle, Sekhmets Daughter roguevalley Dec 2012 #79

LOL! Neither, Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #121

I took Obama's bumper sticker off my car today arely staircase Dec 2012 #49

Amazing isn't it? n/t Sekhmets Daughter Dec 2012 #54

"I've yelled about how I can't yell about this so long, I've lost my voice!" Robb Dec 2012 #16

Some voices are louder than others. madfloridian Dec 2012 #19

May I say - Hell Hath No Fury Dec 2012 #31

And W got away with all of it, didn't he? madfloridian Dec 2012 #40

Well said and I agree completely! cui bono Dec 2012 #145

We should all realize that nothing gets accomplished if we don't push for it. Curmudgeoness Dec 2012 #46

Thanks. It is just good common sense to do so. madfloridian Dec 2012 #71

What bothers me most is what it's doing to DU starroute Dec 2012 #50

You made some very good points in that post. madfloridian Dec 2012 #58

I accidently stepped into that group only to be banned immediately and had a post hidden rhett o rick Dec 2012 #99

I believe certain forum moderators are abusive. L0oniX Dec 2012 #159

there's a Barack Obama forum? liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #177

It's pathetic and IMO not very Democratic. nm rhett o rick Dec 2012 #202

I am interested in seeing all of these requests for people to walk in lockstep. grantcart Dec 2012 #56

2 Years to fix it? LibertyBell7 Dec 2012 #57

A decent rock anthem presented this theme: truedelphi Dec 2012 #59

You are absolutely judged on loyalty CranialRectaLoopback Dec 2012 #63

they may try to shout us down and shut us up but like you liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #66

Aways the same transparent defensive reaction, too. Those who DirkGently Dec 2012 #77

Agreed, but it sures makes a person think twice before posting. madfloridian Dec 2012 #82

Not with me. Rex Dec 2012 #83

There is GREAT harm in DEMANDING people walk Lockstep Skip Intro Dec 2012 #84

..... madfloridian Dec 2012 #85

Please show me a DU post "DEMANDING people walk Lockstep." SunSeeker Dec 2012 #135

Do you read DU? Skip Intro Dec 2012 #180

Yup. And I have yet to see an OP that says that. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #182

Then you haven't read much. Skip Intro Dec 2012 #187

Link(s)? nt SunSeeker Dec 2012 #193

It's the weirdest thing, madfloridian. Octafish Dec 2012 #86

Octafish....like Alice in Wonderland I feel weirder and weirder madfloridian Dec 2012 #88

Good to see you, too! My sister teaches kindergarden. My two aunts are retired teachers. Octafish Dec 2012 #92

Very well said, Octafish. Especially this: sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #113

There are so many, Sabrina. madfloridian Dec 2012 #119

Same as it ever was, Octafish. Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #90

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Wondrous Kwanzaa, Happy New Year, Blue_In_AK! Octafish Dec 2012 #91

Blue I think I told you happy holidays, but in case I didn't.... madfloridian Dec 2012 #96

Same to you, Madflo Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #102

Right now Octafish, 14 people have me blocked and ignored. madfloridian Dec 2012 #95

Hey, I've even picked up another one in the last month or so, Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #176

Garden Party...a big favorite. Video of him singing it. madfloridian Dec 2012 #178

I think the "eff you" is why I like that song so much Blue_In_AK Dec 2012 #179

Big Brother is winning. Rex Dec 2012 #146

k&r rhett o rick Dec 2012 #100

k&r Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #101

Glad you are Back! And well said... fascisthunter Dec 2012 #120

Authoritarianism is not bound by party ID. OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #122

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2012 #123

Thank YOU for this post ++++++ haikugal Dec 2012 #124

Clinton wasn't endorsing that sentiment, just stating what he saw as an unfortunate reality bigtree Dec 2012 #126

I do not now,... 99Forever Dec 2012 #127

LIE: "...we in 2008 gave our party a majority to fix it. They had two years..." SunSeeker Dec 2012 #128

Bush accomplished what he did without a filibuster-proof majority. OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #130

Dems under Bush didn't filibuster like the GOP does now--Dems believe in democracy. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #136

How's that moral high ground working out for us citizens? OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #138

What's your alternative to democracy? SunSeeker Dec 2012 #166

Dems believe in Kabuki theater. OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #170

So you're not a Dem? Why are you here? nt SunSeeker Dec 2012 #181

Dem POLITICIANS believe in Kabuki theater, OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #186

LOL. If you believe all Dem politicians believe in Kabuki theater... SunSeeker Dec 2012 #188

Keep hoping for change! (Particularly when the game is rigged.) OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #190

I don't just hope for change. I work at it. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #192

Rah! Rah! Rah! Gooooooo team! OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #204

I see juvenile namecalling is all you've got. nt SunSeeker Dec 2012 #205

My response is appropriate OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #207

Namecalling is not appropriate. Neither are lies. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #208

Here's your "lies." OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #211

Does that include contributions from News Corp. employees, as Media Matters points out? SunSeeker Dec 2012 #212

Right, because employees of News Corp have no vested interest OnyxCollie Dec 2012 #213

Great chart, here's more. Open Secrets is working. madfloridian Dec 2012 #222

+1 treestar Dec 2012 #142

Whoa there. I said "majority". madfloridian Dec 2012 #158

It was not a "majority" that allowed him to "fix" or get legislation through, and you know it. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #163

It appears nothing has a place on DU madfloridian Dec 2012 #165

Oh please. NO ONE is saying they want "no questioning." SunSeeker Dec 2012 #168

NO, I did not do that. "parsing pronouns"???? Really. madfloridian Dec 2012 #172

Baiting is inserting the "he had 2 years and did nothing" RW meme into your OP. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #184

What I wrote is there for all to see. They can decide. Not worth it. madfloridian Dec 2012 #189

Fighting school privatization is worth it. Hope you keep that up. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #194

any criticism is considered right wing talking points liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #173

Nope, just the false ones the RW uses, like the "he had 2 years and did nothing" meme. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #183

That's the problem. I can't post about education without criticizing Obama... madfloridian Dec 2012 #195

I've never seen anyone here disagree with your position that school privatization is a bad idea. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #196

People can't stand for someone to disagree with one of liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #197

I haven't seen that. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #198

well I disagree and so do many others liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #199

Fine. Disagreement is not disrespectful. Lies are. nt SunSeeker Dec 2012 #200

I'm really sorry your message for school reform gets nowhere even here liberal_at_heart Dec 2012 #169

The poster did not lie. They said majority and majority it was and generational high at that TheKentuckian Dec 2012 #206

Yes it was a lie. It was not "a majority to fix it"--that would have required 60 votes. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #209

There's something odd about your repeated use of the word "lie" madfloridian Dec 2012 #210

I just calls 'em as I sees 'em. SunSeeker Dec 2012 #214

You are the one stating a super majority, not the person you call a liar. TheKentuckian Jan 2013 #224

It was not "a majority" that allowed Dems to "fix" things; THAT was the lie. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #225

So now you're trolling Obama Underground? hay rick Dec 2012 #131

Persuade with respect and no problem. gulliver Dec 2012 #132

Disagreement is accepted treestar Dec 2012 #140

3 Red Herrings in one post - must be a record LiberalLovinLug Dec 2012 #152

+++ hay rick Dec 2012 #160

I don't think so treestar Dec 2012 #215

The DNC WAS working to get wins at local levels, but that was stopped at once in 2009. madfloridian Dec 2012 #161

Wow that's giving all the power to Dean treestar Dec 2012 #216

Not what I meant at all. madfloridian Dec 2012 #221

If you think the President or any other Democrat is above criticism by Democrats rhett o rick Dec 2012 #164

I hardly see on DU as much criticism of Republicans treestar Dec 2012 #217

I see plenty of post critical of Boner, rhett o rick Dec 2012 #219

K&R... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2012 #150

Membership in a political party doesn't denote fealty or obedience to the party or its leaders. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2012 #153

Unfortunately,our educational system has been based on profits for a long time.Kochs donate & dictat judesedit Dec 2012 #154

I have been posting about damage done to public schools... madfloridian Dec 2012 #155

..... madfloridian Dec 2012 #191

This message was self-deleted by its author Bad_Ronald Dec 2012 #218

116 recs! That's like one rec for every straw man and false victimization claim. great white snark Dec 2012 #223

K&R AnotherMcIntosh Jan 2013 #226

How did those 3rd party ites who have reappeared voting for Nader in 2000 do for you in Florida? graham4anything Jan 2013 #227

I feel insulted by what you assume is "devotion to one man". patrice Jan 2013 #228