General Discussion

Confusious

(8,317 posts)

269. You can't win or lose an argument against a fundy

Sat Dec 29, 2012, 07:49 AM

Dec 2012

Whether it be a Christian, muslim, scientologist, gun nut or you.

If I look up you SSRI "theory" I get Alex jones. Not really a hot bed of reliable thinking right there.

Mass shooting have happened in this country since the end of ww2 and before. Some of the deadliest have happened before SSRIs were introduced in 1986.

Now in your "scientific" opinion, if something happened before, and still happened after you introduced "something new", is it the cause of the "something new"? If your car has a pinging sound, and you dump in cleaner, and it has the pinging sound afterward, do you blame the cleaner? You do.

MOST mass shooters aren't mentally Ill according to the FBI.

http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/20/12858757-mass-murderers-often-not-mentally-ill-but-seeking-revenge-experts-say?lite

http://www.examiner.com/article/what-fbi-profiles-tell-us-about-school-shooters-and-how-to-prevent-the-next-one-6

So they wouldn't be on any drug, like you say.

Those that are, well again, the FBI says some have given up hope. Why would they give up hope if there are drugs? Because the drugs don't always work.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2718-18560_162-962.html

Most of the 30,000 murders in the United states are becuase of SSRIs? You say MOST deal with SSRIs, I say you have no proof of that, else you would have posted it.

We have been killing each other a lot longer then SSRIs have been around. Strangly enough, the crime rate has been actually going down. Suicides are up in recent years, but trending down.

Since the introduction of SSRis to Japan, suicides are trending down, mass killings becuase of the horrible SSRIs? Nowhere to be seen.

That's why I say fuck your theory and your bullshit attitude. you're a fundie and going to believe what you want to believe no matter what the evidence.

30 million people taking these medications and you want to take thier freedom away and destroy thier lives for the acts of a few, who probably aren't even on the drugs you claim they are.

Wow, just wow indeed.

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Does it strike anyone as important that the CT shooter had Aspergers and it is often treated with... [View all] Th1onein Dec 2012 OP

I am not sure I can take that as a fact... Kalidurga Dec 2012 #1

We don't know anything for sure, yet, that is true. Th1onein Dec 2012 #4

I have read some horror stories... Kalidurga Dec 2012 #14

Just stop. Stop right there. MineralMan Dec 2012 #24

Thank you. arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #34

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hedgehog Dec 2012 #52

Thank you. Rider3 Dec 2012 #53

Thank you. thucythucy Dec 2012 #101

Thank you for that get the red out Dec 2012 #131

"Don't destroy the placebo effect" tama Dec 2012 #157

Who are you quoting? I did not write that. MineralMan Dec 2012 #183

+100 Taverner Dec 2012 #170

Seriously. Posteritatis Dec 2012 #176

yes mattvermont Dec 2012 #201

+1 arely staircase Dec 2012 #202

+1000! Walk away Dec 2012 #226

Stop what? Eddie Haskell Dec 2012 #239

thank you MM nt steve2470 Dec 2012 #249

Well said. nt msanthrope Dec 2012 #270

I took sertraline for a few years when younger. GaYellowDawg Dec 2012 #118

+1 nt ProudProgressiveNow Dec 2012 #133

Really? I HAVE personal experience with them. So do several of my family members, all of whom had Th1onein Dec 2012 #138

So this adverse reaction you had, did it turn you into a mass murderer? thucythucy Dec 2012 #208

NO ONE is posting attacks on people with Asperger's or any other mental disability. Th1onein Dec 2012 #219

Go ahead and put me on ignore, thucythucy Dec 2012 #224

These problems prob. existed BEFORE they took the medications. Often they go off them cold turkey. Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #152

I've been on sertraline for over 5 years now. Terra Alta Dec 2012 #250

Columbine: Same thing. Former Sen. John Decamp brought stats to court SugarShack Dec 2012 #252

There have been some discussions/threads on the subject today(Monday.) elleng Dec 2012 #2

There is no information about that that has any credibility. MineralMan Dec 2012 #26

The 'uncle' cited in that article is a scammer csziggy Dec 2012 #160

i've seen no verifiable source that says this is the case, & lots of different reports of what he HiPointDem Dec 2012 #3

I know that the current Repuke and NRA line is AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #5

I think psychiatrists and MD's; anyone who writes a script for these kinds of meds..... Th1onein Dec 2012 #7

You want to see the poll I did for that snooper2 Dec 2012 #8

So if you are treated for depression your medical upaloopa Dec 2012 #33

If I suffer from a seizure disorder it is not arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #41

I glad you aren't given any authority to write laws upaloopa Dec 2012 #57

I want to save lives, guns only serve to take arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #68

Since when is it not kept private? loyalsister Dec 2012 #173

True. I would assume the records would be kept arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #189

Mandatory reporting for DL is only legal in a few states loyalsister Dec 2012 #190

I had not thought of that, I don't think they arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #191

One of the authors of the Americans with Disabilities Act, thucythucy Dec 2012 #206

Well, given the discrimination that could result arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #213

Absolutely. In Coelho's case, he was diagnosed thucythucy Dec 2012 #214

Depression is not psychosis womanofthehills Dec 2012 #55

The problem is we still don't understand the brain and are basically GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #58

Brave New World tama Dec 2012 #164

You can find information to support either side upaloopa Dec 2012 #60

No, but if you are treated with an SSRI, yes, it should be reported. Th1onein Dec 2012 #93

In 2008 SCOTUS reaffirmed it was OK to deny 2A rights to criminals and the mentally ill HereSince1628 Dec 2012 #107

Thank you. tosh Dec 2012 #122

That's crazy! I am on a medication for anxiety adigal Dec 2012 #124

No, of course not. But you shouldn't be able to buy a gun unless you are stable on these drugs. Th1onein Dec 2012 #139

That's crazy, I'm sorry. Even with anxiety, I'm more functional than most Americans, adigal Dec 2012 #145

YOU are just one person. Th1onein Dec 2012 #197

http://www.paxilprogress.org/forums/ green for victory Dec 2012 #262

Thank you, green for victory. These forums explain a lot about the effects of withdrawing from Th1onein Dec 2012 #266

Nope. politicat Dec 2012 #6

I could not agree with you more! Thank you. n/t arthritisR_US Dec 2012 #45

+1 nt ProudProgressiveNow Dec 2012 #136

Exactly... sendero Dec 2012 #242

No. Hard to think of anything less important. cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #9

Is this an OP or an agenda? Do you know that the killer was on medication, bluestate10 Dec 2012 #10

We don't know anything for sure yet. proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #11

NO! This is another red herring. Regardless of Adam Lanza's mental health, meds, riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #12

Because crazy people don't use knives, bombs, cars, etc to kill people? HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #80

Yeah. Because he killed 25 people with his teeth. GaYellowDawg Dec 2012 #119

Do you have a link for that claim? n/t Fumesucker Dec 2012 #13

Demonizing antidepressants is irresponsible. nt Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #15

+999 trillion nt Jamastiene Dec 2012 #22

demonizing the shooters is preferable! green for victory Dec 2012 #65

"Demonizing the shooters"?? thucythucy Dec 2012 #102

Michael Moore disagrees green for victory Dec 2012 #111

You addressed nothing in my post thucythucy Dec 2012 #113

+1000 nt ProudProgressiveNow Dec 2012 #137

Prove it...nt SidDithers Dec 2012 #16

This Aspie takes Paxil and I couldn't hurt a fly. Odin2005 Dec 2012 #17

That's you, Odin2005. As many as five percent have adverse reactions involving violence to self or Th1onein Dec 2012 #18

Andrea Yates was high on Jesus. Odin2005 Dec 2012 #19

She might have been high on Jesus, but she was also on Prozac, and had just had her dosage changed Th1onein Dec 2012 #42

Takes a month or more for the drugs to take effect Confusious Dec 2012 #81

Please don't launch personal attacks, Confusious. It lowers the level of discourse on this forum. Th1onein Dec 2012 #87

You propound misinformation liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #109

So, let me get this straight....... Th1onein Dec 2012 #140

Nice way to deflect the fact liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #144

It's far from speculation when it's been reported as coming from an official involved in the Th1onein Dec 2012 #195

The medical examiner admitted liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #199

Why don't you do a search on this topic? I'm not talking about the medical examiner. Th1onein Dec 2012 #221

Just trying to figure out why you misrepresent things Confusious Dec 2012 #154

Let me refresh your memory, then.... Th1onein Dec 2012 #235

I suppose the PHD with a medical degree Confusious Dec 2012 #237

"your entire crusade is a personal attack against people who have mental illness" green for victory Dec 2012 #238

If you want to lock someone up on medication Confusious Dec 2012 #241

You forget one very important fact: THE DRUGS HAVE A BLACK BOX WARNING ON THEM. Th1onein Dec 2012 #248

You: Confusious Dec 2012 #251

If the safe administration of these drugs requires hospitalization, then yes, they must be Th1onein Dec 2012 #257

Changing your words? Confusious Dec 2012 #258

I haven't changed a thing. Th1onein Dec 2012 #261

You can't win or lose an argument against a fundy Confusious Dec 2012 #269

ANOTHER personal attack, Confusious! Calling me a fundie? Is Henry Waxman also a fundie? Th1onein Dec 2012 #271

Your entire OP is a personal attack thucythucy Dec 2012 #204

Wrong on all counts obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #150

Because 5% might be adversely affected, we should do away with the drugs and GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #25

GreenPartyVoter, 5% is 5% too many when they go on rampage killings. Th1onein Dec 2012 #44

And I gave you a suggestion on how to manage it, but how do we get it to happen? In the meantime not GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #51

We need to hospitalize people who are prescribed these drugs. Closely monitor them. Th1onein Dec 2012 #91

So I should be hospitalized if my Paxi dosage is ever changed? Odin2005 Dec 2012 #72

I think it's something we should consider, if not for everyone then at least under certain criteria, GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #95

Oh, yikes! Odin2005 Dec 2012 #97

*great big hugs back* GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #112

11% of Americans ove 12 years old take SSRIs. Walk away Dec 2012 #228

Hence the idea that certain criteria would need to be met. GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #233

EXACTLY, GreenPartyVoter! Th1onein Dec 2012 #267

Five percent do not go on "rampage killings." thucythucy Dec 2012 #207

I didn't realize the medications were the problem Adsos Letter Dec 2012 #27

The National Institutes of Health has done some work on the matter green for victory Dec 2012 #63

There is zero proof he was on any meds obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #151

And for every one incident you mention, there are millions who take Jamastiene Dec 2012 #28

Absolutely, there are many who experience no adverse reactions resulting in violent behavior. BUT Th1onein Dec 2012 #48

Yeah. With a gun. Zoeisright Dec 2012 #70

I don't find it hard to understand at all. But there are more weapons out there than just guns. Th1onein Dec 2012 #92

You are making shit up again!! adigal Dec 2012 #167

RIIIIIGHT! Because NO ONE who ever takes drugs does things that they later don't remember doing! Th1onein Dec 2012 #194

"As to proof that the Lanza boy [he was 20, BTW] had Asperger's thucythucy Dec 2012 #210

I'm not "smearing" ANYONE. I'm against these drugs because they are dangerous. Th1onein Dec 2012 #218

"I see no debunking..." thucythucy Dec 2012 #227

SSRIs affect memory? No. It's fair to say he was on them? NO! adigal Dec 2012 #253

Absolutely they can affect memory. Th1onein Dec 2012 #254

Suicidal tendencies and violent, destructive thoughts are behavioral side effects lunasun Dec 2012 #158

And SSRIs help a lot of people quit drinking adigal Dec 2012 #130

+1 nt ProudProgressiveNow Dec 2012 #166

Those folks probably drank soda too something should be done! upaloopa Dec 2012 #38

I have been on antidepressants since I was 20. And I am not violent. Jennicut Dec 2012 #67

disturbed people often seek help. they often take meds. mopinko Dec 2012 #85

Andrea Yates was mentally ill -- she had post partum psychosis obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #149

Andrea Yates was on an SSRI drug. Th1onein Jan 2013 #272

Thank you. AngryOldDem Dec 2012 #74

I could've sworn all DU lived in constant fear of your impending wrath Posteritatis Dec 2012 #174

Nope. ceile Dec 2012 #20

Please, please stop demonizing Asperger's and SSRIs. GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #21

Thank you. +999 trillion Jamastiene Dec 2012 #30

I am so glad they are helping! I wish mine did a bit more, but since I am bipolar 2 it's bit tricky GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #47

I am not demonizing Asperger's or any other mental illness or syndrome. Th1onein Dec 2012 #49

Then please edit your OP to reflect that, because right now it doesn't read that way to me at all. GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #61

I don't think that the OP needs any editing at all. Th1onein Dec 2012 #89

Yes, it does. It needs to liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #146

I'm sorry, but your information is incorrect. Th1onein Dec 2012 #196

Where is the official confirmation that he AS? liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #200

I doubt that anyone with a grain of critical thought could possibly take the OP seriously. Walk away Dec 2012 #229

Go look it up yourself. I'm not doing your homework for you. Th1onein Dec 2012 #234

Could have fooled me. AngryOldDem Dec 2012 #75

I am sorry you have been fooled, then. Th1onein Dec 2012 #90

It's too late now, but you should have edited the title to your post, then. AngryOldDem Dec 2012 #243

The title to the OP is not demonizing anyone. THERE IS NO SUBTEXT except to people who can't Th1onein Dec 2012 #244

You absolutely are demonizing people with Asperger's. thucythucy Dec 2012 #103

THANK YOU. liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #148

I'm so sorry to hear of the difficulties your family has encountered and continues to encounter. thucythucy Dec 2012 #184

Thanks. "Aspies" is a term liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #187

Thanks! thucythucy Dec 2012 #188

I just wanted to add that Neoma thucythucy Dec 2012 #185

The OP has been saying stupid things about SSRIs for years. Odin2005 Dec 2012 #73

Yeah, there seem to be a few people who feel similarly. GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #84

Thank you, thank you, thank you! liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #114

*hugs* I have a son that is PDD, but has a lot of Aspie-like features as one GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #126

Here's the deal: You don't know anything about this. MineralMan Dec 2012 #23

Thank you. n/t Jamastiene Dec 2012 #32

Not a problem at all. MineralMan Dec 2012 #39

No, here's the deal. If you are on an SSRI antidepressant, you are TWELVE times more likely to Th1onein Dec 2012 #50

NO! The "root of the violence" is the guns and our gun culture. nt riderinthestorm Dec 2012 #66

It's very irresponsible of you to speculate like this muriel_volestrangler Dec 2012 #71

SSRI's are never used to "treat" Asperger's. Odin2005 Dec 2012 #76

Please don't split hairs. SSRIs are often used to treat certain aspects of Aspergers. Th1onein Dec 2012 #88

I take Paxil for ANXIETY, not my Asperger's Odin2005 Dec 2012 #98

And your point? Th1onein Dec 2012 #141

But, even if true, that doesn't matter in this case liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #180

No one is scapegoating Asperger sufferers. This is very obvious. Th1onein Dec 2012 #192

The fact that multiple people on this thread thucythucy Dec 2012 #212

A lot of people insisted that the world was going to end yesterday, too, but that didn't make it Th1onein Dec 2012 #217

So now you're comparing every DU'er who has called you out on your irresponsible thucythucy Dec 2012 #225

The hell you're not scapegoating them, liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #215

You're wrong. Simply wrong. Th1onein Dec 2012 #255

I've never been told I could take medication NiteOwll Dec 2012 #104

Do a cross reference search on SSRI drugs and Asperger's. Th1onein Dec 2012 #143

Your sources don't prove your point. NiteOwll Dec 2012 #171

You very apparently don't understand the point that I was trying to make. In fact, you reiterate my Th1onein Dec 2012 #193

Excuse me, but will you PLEASE liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #198

Excuse me, but will YOU PLEASE Th1onein Dec 2012 #236

you said it! likesmountains 52 Dec 2012 #247

Jesus H. Christ, ONE MORE TIME. liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #116

That's about 12 times the bullshit I need to hear. GaYellowDawg Dec 2012 #120

I think you have it backwards adigal Dec 2012 #147

"The shooter in Connecticut..." There you go again. thucythucy Dec 2012 #211

I guess the fact that a high percentage of people on SSRIs are depressed to begin with has nothing.. Walk away Dec 2012 #231

This is a topic that everyone here has an opinion about upaloopa Dec 2012 #29

Frankly, I don't see that as being very decisive BlueStreak Dec 2012 #31

Something slipped through the cracks here and maybe everyone Cleita Dec 2012 #35

No. It strikes me as dim-witted scapegoating. n/t gkhouston Dec 2012 #36

Except it's not "often treated with antidepressants" Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #37

Yes, it is. Th1onein Dec 2012 #268

Would you prefer that people with mental illnesses received no treatment? Motown_Johnny Dec 2012 #40

Autism is not a mental illness. Spider Jerusalem Dec 2012 #46

It appears he had developed a mental illness in addition. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #82

They're damned if they do and damned if they don't with this crowd Posteritatis Dec 2012 #175

Sounds like Scientologist, anti-pychiatry bullshit to me...nt SidDithers Dec 2012 #43

There is apparently nothing whatsoever at present to suggest dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #54

They haven't found any evidence that he was on any medication. There was none in the home... nessa Dec 2012 #56

No. Warpy Dec 2012 #59

Your tinfoil's on too tight. backscatter712 Dec 2012 #62

Experts: No link between Asperger's, violence pinto Dec 2012 #64

No. Zoeisright Dec 2012 #69

why isn't the media at least asking the question? Isn't that their job? No Compromise Dec 2012 #77

They aren't asking because there's no evidence he was on any drugs. jeff47 Dec 2012 #179

So I finally read the complete list of symptoms for Aspergers, ecstatic Dec 2012 #78

We don't know what, if any, treatment he was getting. HooptieWagon Dec 2012 #79

No, I'm an aspie who has taken antidepressants off and on DotGone Dec 2012 #83

I think your mind reading act needs a little work... Blue Idaho Dec 2012 #86

Fox News And The New York Times Abet Media Effort To Falsely Link Autism With CT Shooting Lone_Star_Dem Dec 2012 #94

Thank you. This has been one of my fears (there are so many) since this broke. Butterbean Dec 2012 #106

Thank you for this post. thucythucy Dec 2012 #232

There is at present nothing whatsoever to confirm he was on anything at all. dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #96

It's the fucking conspiracy theory that just won't die... SidDithers Dec 2012 #99

I've taught lots of kids with Aspergers. proud2BlibKansan Dec 2012 #100

Yet another thread goes straight to the trashcan. n/t MadrasT Dec 2012 #105

Even if true, correlation isn't causality Orangepeel Dec 2012 #108

Speaking as someone who has taken anti-depressants for many years... rox63 Dec 2012 #110

YES - This! get the red out Dec 2012 #134

None of us knows what he is diagnosed with, Marrah_G Dec 2012 #115

No. Starry Messenger Dec 2012 #117

You beat me to it, Starry obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #121

Thank you! liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #123

^^^ Hong Kong Cavalier Dec 2012 #129

It strikes me as important that we should be focusing on adequate mental health treatment Skidmore Dec 2012 #125

Does it strike anyone as important that there are a lot of red herrings being posted? kiva Dec 2012 #127

It's pretty amazing Aerows Dec 2012 #135

No. Not important. The easy accersability to guns and ammunition are the root cause. nt bowens43 Dec 2012 #128

Millions of people take antidepressants Aerows Dec 2012 #132

Since when are antidepressants used to "treat" Aspergers? TwilightGardener Dec 2012 #142

There is no proof he was an Aspie nor was on meds obamanut2012 Dec 2012 #153

Antidepressants do a lot more good than harm. The people taking them are often in crisis before Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #155

He was not under a psychiatrist's care so he was NOT on any antidepressants. Michigan Alum Dec 2012 #156

Nor is there any proof other than liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #159

One more time, I ask in the name of liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #161

I see it as irresponsibilty, either way. JohnnyLib2 Dec 2012 #162

Indeed. But then again, liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #163

Brave New World tama Dec 2012 #165

You've gotta be kidding me. liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #168

I was inclined to answer tama Dec 2012 #177

No. Hundreds of thousands of Americans are on antidepressants Taverner Dec 2012 #169

Well, this kind of black and white thinking liberalhistorian Dec 2012 #182

Nope, but what I do feel is striking... countryjake Dec 2012 #172

I wonder how many people the current "demonize the mentally ill + treatment" craze will kill. (nt) Posteritatis Dec 2012 #178

Excellent point. thucythucy Dec 2012 #223

Unrec. Pure conjecture and misleading. Owl Dec 2012 #181

I think it was the guns. /nt yardwork Dec 2012 #186

The immdiate issue is not about sulphurdunn Dec 2012 #203

I've taken antidepressants for years cherish44 Dec 2012 #205

excuse me, but where the fuck did you come up with his diagnosis and treatment, Dr.? magical thyme Dec 2012 #209

NO. freshwest Dec 2012 #216

I took them until ... Eddie Haskell Dec 2012 #220

Aspergers is NOT a condition that is treated with medication cherish44 Dec 2012 #222

+1 n/t duffyduff Dec 2012 #230

No. backscatter712 Dec 2012 #240

Not me. steve2470 Dec 2012 #245

In all liklihood, this guy was misdiagnosed. He was a Paranoid Schizophrenic. MichiganVote Dec 2012 #246

The Niagara Falls Reporter?... SidDithers Dec 2012 #256

How about the US GOV National Institutes of Health green for victory Dec 2012 #259

And that shows that Lanza was taking anti-depressants where?...nt SidDithers Dec 2012 #260

no time to waste now on those who refuse to see green for victory Dec 2012 #263

Does that link show Lanza was taking anti-depressants?... SidDithers Dec 2012 #264

It strikes me as important that he had a bushmaster with a high capacity magazine. Iggo Dec 2012 #265